A subscription or a rental?
Mark Barnes (Logos) said:Later this year, we’ll launch the next version of Logos as a subscription. The subscription will have several tiers and eventually replace Preaching Suite, Faithlife Connect, and other Logos feature sets.
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I read "as a subscription" ... and wonder if I as a non-native English speaker understand the term correctly. From reading posts regarding this new business model, it appears that "subscription" actually may mean "rental"?
Illustration:
When I get a subscription to something, I receive something as long as I am subscribed and what I receive is for keeps, even after I cancel the subscription.
When I get a rental of something, I receive something as long as I am renting but will keep nothing after I cancel the rental contract.
So then, what are we really talking about here with this new Logos marketing model?
Will features and/or books that I receive while being subscribed remain functional in my local Logos installation after I cancel my subscription? Or will nothing of what I receive while being subscribed remain for me to continue to use, in which case I had actually paid for a rental rather than a subscription?
Wolfgang Schneider
(BibelCenter)
Comments
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Wolfgang Schneider said:
Will features and/or books that I receive while being subscribed remain functional in my local Logos installation after I cancel my subscription? Or will nothing of what I receive while being subscribed remain for me to continue to use, in which case I had actually paid for a rental rather than a subscription?
I think the subscription-based access to features and books works like what you describe as "rental" - the temporary licence will run out and you'll lose access when the subscription period is over.
In the other thread someone suggested the idea of a "fallback license", which in the referred tool meant that subscribers (when meeting certain conditions) would not lose all features but would retain a permanent license of a release 12 months old.
Have joy in the Lord!
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Wolfgang Schneider said:
I read "as a subscription" ... and wonder if I as a non-native English speaker understand the term correctly. From reading posts regarding this new business model, it appears that "subscription" actually may mean "rental"?
I think Mick answered your question, but I will take a stab at the term. I think in US English, the term "rental" is more often used with physical items (you RENT a car, you RENT a house). The word "subscribe" means something similar, but applies to services. You SUBSCRIBE to Netflix. You SUBSCRIBE to "faithlife connect."
There are some "subscriptions" that I can think of which involve a physical item, but it still really refers to the service. For example, when Netflix first started out, there were "subscriptions." This made sense because you were paying for the service of sending out DVD rentals in a cue. There are also "subscriptions" for motorized scooters, but again, you are not renting the ONE scooter, you are paying for the service and you use the scooter that is available at the time.
So it is not wrong to think of a "subscription" as a "rental," and indeed, I have used that term to help some others understand what is meant by a "Faithlife Connect" subscription.
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NB.Mick said:
I think the subscription-based access to features and books works like what you describe as "rental" - the temporary license will run out and you'll lose access when the subscription period is over.
Hmn ... so the advantage is that I can get earlier access to functionality features ... but in reality I am invited to be "hooked line and sinker" to possibly pay quite a high price (over how many years?) in order to not be left without such? Rent a feature I might want to use for ~$120/year, yet after perhaps 3 years and $360 gone have nothing because I see no sense in paying more for nothing tangible? I may rather have paid $360 at the start but have the functionality available ...
In addition, what does it mean when M. Barnes writes "the next version of Logos" will be by subscription? Are we to expect that unless we subscribe, we'll remain at Logos version 33.x (or whatever it may be at the time the change takes effect) and any newer updates will be tied to having a subscription?
I am rather unhappy ... and seriously thinking of just sticking with the status quo of my current Logos installation and forget about further features or other improvements in the software.
Wolfgang Schneider
(BibelCenter)
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JT (alabama24) said:
I think Mick answered your question, but I will take a stab at the term. I think in US English, the term "rental" is more often used with physical items (you RENT a car, you RENT a house). The word "subscribe" means something similar, but applies to services. You SUBSCRIBE to Netflix. You SUBSCRIBE to "faithlife connect."
Thanks, JT for the "stab at the term"... I'm getting a better understanding of the term.
In a sense, with Logos I am receiving a software item / a digital product ... whether I purchase a base package with features and books with a one time amount to pay or else subscribe to features or books ... thus, in my opinion, the item should in both cases remain equally usable to me. There is no difference ... I don't receive an item in one case, and no item but a service in the other case, yes?
Perhaps this whole"subscription model" should be thought of as a "Logos Club Membership" ... with certain things only being available to Club members? What is now called "subscription" would then be a "membership fee" (monthly/annually/etc). In other words, certain main functionality (features and books packages or individual titles) remains as purchases within the current marketing model and is available to any customer, and in addition (!) anyone can join the Logos Club by registering as a member and receive what is exclusively available to club members ...?
Wolfgang Schneider
(BibelCenter)
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Wolfgang Schneider said:
in reality I am invited to be "hooked line and sinker" to possibly pay quite a high price (over how many years?) in order to not be left without such? Rent a feature I might want to use for ~$120/year, yet after perhaps 3 years and $360 gone have nothing because I see no sense in paying more for nothing tangible? I may rather have paid $360 at the start but have the functionality available ...
Hm. Some people seem to be able to commit to $10 a month but never have $360 in one sum. With others it's exactly the opposite. Then again, in the old world (which might not be dead yet) you'd have to pay the $360 (or more?) every two years for a Full Feature Upgrade. Yet again, the subscription may become more expensive in the future - or no longer offered at all. Owning feels more 'safe' than renting, but seeing Logos alive for the next 30 years is even more safe. Logos seems to be deliberating which model(s) to offer for general functionality, but I at the moment at least the AI-powered functions may only be had on a rental basis.
Have joy in the Lord!
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Wolfgang Schneider said:
In addition, what does it mean when M. Barnes writes "the next version of Logos" will be by subscription? Are we to expect that unless we subscribe, we'll remain at Logos version 33.x (or whatever it may be at the time the change takes effect) and any newer updates will be tied to having a subscription?
No, this is not correct. You will continue to get the software updates. But just like someone who bought a Logos 9 package and not a Logos 10 package will be on version 33 of the software without the new features, you will have access to your old features forever (in new versions of the software with bug fixes, OS updates, etc).
The old features were mostly fixed costs. They spend $10,000 to create a dataset and sell it to 10,000 customers, so it is a dollar of the price of a base package to break even. If you use it for the next 20 years, it does not incur any additional cost. But the new push for AI tools (as seen by the pages and pages of comments on threads on AI) will incur an ongoing cost. Logos will pay every single time someone hits summarize, because your computer cannot run an LLM locally. Maybe the cost is 10 cents per query. Do you really want Logos to set a price for the feature set that will be high enough to cover that for the next 20 years? They already eat some of those costs, since they sync your documents forever, but that all adds up.
They have not confirmed anything yet (but we are still months out from when we would expect Logos 11, so that is not surprising), but my read of the main thread is that they will probably (in response to user feedback) offer a "full-ish" feature set that gives the traditional features, and allow a subscription to cover AI features, or let you choose a different subscription-only tier. The issue at that point is the complexity to the buyer.Using Logos as a pastor, seminary professor, and Tyndale author
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I figured it this way.... I own Logos 10. That's mine if I do nothing else. I figure the next version Logos 11 or 33 or whatever number is going to cost me $xx dollars to update too. I was thinking, right or wrong, that the update cost would probably be more than the Logos Pro (club or rental) cost would be.
I envisioned Logos Pro to be like Microsoft 365... you get to use all the features as long as you pay "the rent" but when you... me in this case... stop paying the "rent" on Logo Pro... then my base system will still be Logos 10 unless I choose to update it.
I think the discussion about "rental" is a good one. Thanks for bringing it up.
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Agreed, it is a rental. And such rentals usually have the effect of killing quality. If you look at how many companies that offer subscriptions work today, you can see what I mean. Netflix, Spotify, Amazon, etc... they sit on a perpetual income and give less and less quality content. Logos is headed in the same direction.
Also, and this is just my opinion, no one needs a full feature upgrade every 2 years, let alone a monthly or quarterly update. But perhaps some want to have the newest and best constantly.
At least Logos is letting us keep features we already have.
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Daniel Borman said:
Agreed, it is a rental. And such rentals usually have the effect of killing quality.
You might be right ... I hadn't thought about it. The argument so far, is that FL will be overwhelmed with the big-bucks, and thrilled to do good work (for subscribers). But absent thrilling work, the subscribers will jump ship ... if they can.
They'll see.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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