BUG: Operation of Recent section in Add Versions
Recent -----------> Logos 33.0
ESV, NABRE, NLT
ESV
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The top line resulted from Search with ESV only i.e. it represented the last of the actual versions displayed..
Then I switched the Search to NABRE when NABRE, ESV were displayed and the line with ESV was added?
.
When I switched Search to CSB then CSB, ESV, NABRE were displayed, but Recent was unchanged! What happened to NLT?
ESV is my Top Bible.
I selected ESV, NABRE, NLT from Recent and those versions were displayed with CSB.But Recent now became:
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ESV, NABRE
ESV
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What happened to NLT?
When I clicked "Remove all", Recent became:
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ESV, NABRE, NLT
ESV, NABRE
ESV
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and Additional versions were removed from the results display.
Welcome back NLT...
But can you understand why changes like these are not welcome. FL continues to fix what doesn't require fixing, and makes it confusing if not downright buggy.
Dave
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Windows 11 & Android 13
Comments
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There is a short debounce period (somewhere between 30s-60s) for something going into the recent list. Clicking Remove All forces an immediate save.
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Hi Dave--It's possible there are a few things going on here that (in theory, at least) are working 'as we intended' but causing confusion (that's not to imply that "as we intended" is the right final answer, btw). Let me share some things and see if it at least clarifies what is going on here for you:
1) The recents in the picker don't include the primary / searched bible. So if, for instance, you're seeing ESV, NABRE, and NLT in the panel (in that order), your 'additional version configuration' is NABRE, NLT (and that's what you'd ultimately expect to see in 'recent' after e.g. clicking 'remove all').
2) If you search a single resource, we make sure to avoid duplicating that resource as an additional column even if you have it selected as an additional version. So if you have an additional version configuration of ESV, NABRE, and NLT selected, and search the ESV, you will not see a second column of ESV results. But then let's say you switch the primary searched resource to CSB, you will see the CSB as well as all 3 additional versions from the configuration you've selected.
3) We do not include the current view as a recent option. So if your current configuration in the search results is ESV, NABRE, and NLT, you will not see that option in recents.
4) As Matt mentioned, we do not immediately add a configuration to the list of recents (rationale, if someone adds one resource at a time to get to where they want to be, we don't want to create multiple 'recent' configurations for each step they took to get to where they wanted). But we'll 'lock-in' your configuration as a recent one when you do certain things (e.g. 'Remove all'). Otherwise, as Matt mentioned, we wait a bit before we commit your configuration to 'Recent'.
I'm guessing that your comment about it being confusing still stands. Assuming so, we'll be sure the product team gets that feedback. But I do hope the above at least explains what you're seeing. If not (i.e. if you feel like what you're seeing doesn't align with what I've described above), please let me know and I'll dig in a bit more to see if we have a bug that I missed in your original post.
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Thanks, Ronny.
I will comment on each of your points:
1) The recents in the picker don't include the primary / searched bible. So if, for instance, you're seeing ESV, NABRE, and NLT in the panel (in that order), your 'additional version configuration' is NABRE, NLT (and that's what you'd ultimately expect to see in 'recent' after e.g. clicking 'remove all').
Agree.
2) If you search a single resource, we make sure to avoid duplicating that resource as an additional column even if you have it selected as an additional version. So if you have an additional version configuration of ESV, NABRE, and NLT selected, and search the ESV, you will not see a second column of ESV results. But then let's say you switch the primary searched resource to CSB, you will see the CSB as well as all 3 additional versions from the configuration you've selected.
Recent is
- ESV, NABRE, and NLT
- ESV, NABRE
I ran a search from History which used the CSB bible and results were shown for CSB and ESV.
Then I switched to SBLGNT and results were shown for SBLGNT and ESV, whilst Recent remained as above.
Why was CSB, ESV not added to Recent? Or SBLGNT and ESV?
Subsequent searches did not change the content of Recent!
4) As Matt mentioned, we do not immediately add a configuration to the list of recents (rationale, if someone adds one resource at a time to get to where they want to be, we don't want to create multiple 'recent' configurations for each step they took to get to where they wanted). But we'll 'lock-in' your configuration as a recent one when you do certain things (e.g. 'Remove all'). Otherwise, as Matt mentioned, we wait a bit before we commit your configuration to 'Recent'.
Finally, I selected NET and got results for SBLGNT, ESV and NET. Recent then changed to
- ESV
- ESV, NABRE, and NLT
- ESV, NABRE
It seems that selecting NET was doing a "certain thing" and that confirmed that my config was ESV?
3) We do not include the current view as a recent option. So if your current configuration in the search results is ESV, NABRE, and NLT, you will not see that option in recents.
Confirmed as a "Remove all" was needed to add ESV, NET to Recent.
However, prior to this "addition", my comment to Mark (Logos) had been not to waste development resources on a function (the original picker) that did not need fixing! I am wasting too much of my time trying to understand this logic when I don't need to
So I will not mind if Recent is removed altogether, to save you wasting more time explaining what is not really needed!
BUG 1: After running a Search on SBLGNT and selecting a Collection for the results, the Add menu had scrolled to the bottom. Ditto after selecting a Series.
BUG 2: Really - Series included Tyndale Commentaries!? Was that because of the two Bibles? However, it opens Commentaries, and one hyperlinked line is shown, but I have to click Open to see the text.
BUG 3: The Collections need refining as it included Added Resources with a rule for addeddate!
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Hi Dave--Thanks for the follow up. Couple quick follow-ups re: the logic of the picker:
I ran a search from History which used the CSB bible and results were shown for CSB and ESV.
Then I switched to SBLGNT and results were shown for SBLGNT and ESV, whilst Recent remained as above.
Why was CSB, ESV not added to Recent? Or SBLGNT and ESV?
Recent does not include the primary searched resource, so it sounds like your current configuration was just to show the ESV, so when you searched CSB, it showed CSB (the searched bible) and ESV (the additional version). Then when you switched to SBLGNT it showed SBLGNT (the searched bible) and ESV (still, the additional version). Recent would only represent the additional version(s) that are configured, so you shouldn't expect to see recent entries added when you change the bible that you're searching.
It seems that selecting NET was doing a "certain thing" and that confirmed that my config was ESV?
No, I think what you experienced here is that your "current configuration" was only ESV all along (again, keeping in mind that your "additional version" configuration is not changing when you change the searched resource), and we don't list your current configuration in the list of "recents". So the "ESV configuration" didn't show up until you changed the configuration to something different (by selecting NET).
Will pass your feedback along to Mark / the product team.
I'll look into the 3 bugs you noted at the bottom of your post and will circle back here if I need to get more clarification. Thanks for sharing these!
-Ronny
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Recent does not include the primary searched resource, so it sounds like your current configuration was just to show the ESV
I think what you experienced here is that your "current configuration" was only ESV all along (again, keeping in mind that your "additional version" configuration is not changing when you change the searched resource), and we don't list your current configuration in the list of "recents".
My point is that there was no indication of an active configuration and nothing to show what it is!
This is my current search and "recent" configurations:
If I select the first "Recent", CGT and ESV are the Additional versions! Hovering that entry does not show the complete list, incl. ESV.
But when I selected a Search from History, no Additional versions were displayed.
And why should I have to Remove all to replace the current "configuration" with a new one not in Recent?
AFAIC, Recent does not work and is not workable (I can't eve clear the entries).
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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My point is that there was no indication of an active configuration and nothing to show what it is!
I believe the thinking (on our end) is that the indication of the active configuration is what you see in the actual search results. But I'll bet the issue from your perspective is that what you see in the search results doesn't necessarily fully indicate the current configuration, because (for instance) we don't always show every version in the active configuration (e.g. we don't show a row for a version if that version doesn't include the verse). LMK if I don't have that right; otherwise I'll pass that feedback along to the product team.
If I select the first "Recent", CGT and ESV are the Additional versions! Hovering that entry does not show the complete list, incl. ESV.
But when I selected a Search from History, no Additional versions were displayed.
I'm guessing (though not certain, so tell me if I'm way offbase) this is the same problem/challenge here ... the results that are in your view for these searches are presumably limited (i.e. many--or all, depending on your search--of the versions in your configuration do not have a verse that matches the one for the results in your view). So as you noted above, there's no way for you to know what you currently have configured ... totally get why this is confusing for you, and will pass that feedback along. In fact will make sure Mark and the product team has visibility to this entire thread (perhaps they already do).
Hovering that entry does not show the complete list, incl. ESV.
Hovering the entry doesn't give you a tooltip that lists all the versions? I just checked on windows and can't repro the lack of tooltip.
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I will try to respond, Ronny. But we are talking past each other in this exchange...
My point is that there was no indication of an active configuration and nothing to show what it is!
I believe the thinking (on our end) is that the indication of the active configuration is what you see in the actual search results. But I'll bet the issue from your perspective is that what you see in the search results doesn't necessarily fully indicate the current configuration, because (for instance) we don't always show every version in the active configuration (e.g. we don't show a row for a version if that version doesn't include the verse)
The Add versions button provides no indication at any time. If I open it, there is no indication what it is
Note: if there are no results from a Search the button is not visible!
So I have to run (another) Search to discover:
- that there is an active configuration; and what it is
And that only works when:
- results are made visible AND all of the Additional versions are revealed.
But why should I have to guess the configuration in this fashion:-
Just now, I had a Top Bibles Search already open with no indication of a configuration in the first, automatically-opened result for ESV. So it could have been ESV. When I switch to searching ESV only, I get Additional results for CGT, TNTC and LEB. Then I switch back to the same Top Bibles search and suddenly get Additional versions:
- CGT, TNTC and LEB for ESV (first Book results below)
- CGT, TNTC, ESV and LEB for NABRE, NET, etc.:-
I have not set that configuration and have no idea if it is complete. And there is no reliable indication in Recent:
And, before you comment... after Remove all, the first entry became the same as the second one above (down to the ellipses...)
By allowing commentary collections and series, you have made a rod for your back. There should be no surprises and no guessing.
And you still have not told me how to clear Recent.
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After Remove all (from above) I select the new first Recent and reproduce the results + Additional versions described and shown above.
But Recent now becomes:
It seems to have reverted to the previous screenshot (presumably the top entry I selected is now at #2).
So I did another Remove All to get:
Then I selected the first Recent, and reproduced yet again the results shown above.
After which Recent again reverted to showing LEB as the first entry.
Hovering that entry does not show the complete list, incl. ESV.
Hovering the entry doesn't give you a tooltip that lists all the versions? I just checked on windows and can't repro the lack of tooltip.
See the screenshot above, with comment in red.
But when I selected a Search from History, no Additional versions were displayed.
I'm guessing (though not certain, so tell me if I'm way offbase) this is the same problem/challenge here ... the results that are in your view for these searches are presumably limited (i.e. many--or all, depending on your search--of the versions in your configuration do not have a verse that matches the one for the results in your view). So as you noted above, there's no way for you to know what you currently have configured ... totally get why this is confusing for you, and will pass that feedback along. In fact will make sure Mark and the product team has visibility to this entire thread (perhaps they already do).
When I selected a Search from History (following the above), ESV is the Additional version.
When I come back to this tab some time later, what am I going to assume about Additional versions?
It is more than confusing, though. The configuration should be readily available, as well as an indication that one has been selected or not.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Dave--Sorry that it feels like we've been talking past each other. I promise my heart's in the right place; trying to get to shared understanding while limited to a just forum thread is hard (you have more experience than I do!). For the sake of clarity, I'm a developer on the team, so my goals here have been something like:
- Try to clarify how the picker is meant to work.
- Determine if there are any bugs that need to be addressed.
- Understand / clarify your frustrations with the product and ensure our product team gets that feedback.
For me, this back-and-forth (though much less efficient than if we could just hop on a zoom call!) has been helpful in this regard.
Product team has eyes on the thread and I have a few potential bugs to chase down.
I'll only leave one quick follow up to your most resent post:
And you still have not told me how to clear Recent.
There is no way to clear recent items. Noted that you would prefer there be one.
Thanks as always for the engagement.
-Ronny
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There is no way to clear recent items. Noted that you would prefer there be one.
Was the inclusion of commentaries as Additional versions deliberate? It seems that you select series and collections with bibles, but they also included commentaries. The series is a Commentary series that includes bible translations corresponding to each commentary e.g. The Christian Counselor's Commentary (CCC) with 10 commentaries and 10 translations.
Here is another issue with Recent when I run Logos and Verbum side-by-side and have two visible Search tabs in each app:
- it appears to duplicate between tabs and across apps
- I ran a Search with the CCC as Add versions in one tab and it appeared as #1 in the other 3 Search tabs running totally different configurations
- I continue running in the original tab it gets the Config from the adjacent tab
- So I have adjacent tabs telling me the other's configuration! Wonderful....
- But eventually, w/out running a search, all 4 tabs end up with the same Recent.
So what do I want with a Clear Recent option?
- I tend to run searches that are related in adjacent tabs of one app
- So the configurations would be related i.e. one would be different but I would like to revert to a previous config from either tab
- but I want Recent to reflect the current config once a search is run
- so I don't want Recent to sync across apps!
- So clearing Recent should work across Tabs of one App only
I said that you made a rod for your backs.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Was the inclusion of commentaries as Additional versions deliberate?
Nope, that's a bug. You called it out in one of your earlier posts and I had been meaning to circle back to you on that. Only series/collections that include at least one bible should be shown in the picker, but we should be filtering the resources that are shown when such a series/collection is selected to only the bibles in that series/collection, and we aren't. We have a case for it now. Thank you for catching!
Also I owed a follow up on a 'scroll position' bug you mentioned. I can repro and we also have a case for that one.
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