ATTN LOGOS / Bill McCarthy: Geo-restrictions on books

It is very frustrating to keep finding books that are marked "The publisher has not made this resource available for purchase in your country or region" on Logos's website, but Amazon has no problem selling me the Kindle version. For example:

I hope in this new era of Logos one of the things you can focus on is getting Logos to be respected more by the publishers so that you can get permissions to sell such books wherever Amazon can.

It's ridiculous how many are blocked up here in Canada on Logos only. I go to Amazon to buy them, but Logos is losing my revenue and I'm missing the ability to have these books integrated into my Logos library where they would be MUCH more useful. This one, for example, is crying out for links to Scripture.

Thanks for your consideration.

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Comments

Yasmin Stephen

It's ridiculous how many are blocked up here in Canada on Logos only. I go to Amazon to buy them, but Logos is losing my revenue and I'm missing the ability to have these books integrated into my Logos library where they would be MUCH more useful. This one, for example, is crying out for links to Scripture.

Yes, I heartily concur with all of this because I have the very same experience. The number of books I really wanted to buy in Logos but had to resort to getting at Amazon ... it is very frustrating.

(ETA: Thomas Nelson, my side-eye is aimed at you 👀)

NB.Mick

It's ridiculous how many are blocked up here in Canada on Logos only. I go to Amazon to buy them

In my opinion his is exactly the wrong thing to do. HCCP, the publisher conglomerate that owns Zondervan and Thomas Nelson, will probably get roughly the same royalties from Amazon than they would get from Logos: for them, it works exactly like they want, not reason to change anything, no reason to even listen when someone from Bill's team asks once again about those non-US customers.

I try to buy used paper books in such instances. Other than publishers I really hate it to see good books go to paper recycling, being burnt or put into a dump fill. Buying them saves that individual book and even helps people who save books (sometimes even with good intentions or the money they make with this. But I'm also helping small bookstores running a side business in hard times, or keep larger companies alive that keep the used-book-business alive, which is no small feat in these times). And I don't want to hand over royalty money to people who refuse to do business with me.

Actually I do hope the publishers change their ways. I'm fully with you, on the other hand, that Logos should persistently keep asking for that.

Rosie Perera

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1297011#Comment_1297011

It's ridiculous how many are blocked up here in Canada on Logos only. I go to Amazon to buy them

In my opinion his is exactly the wrong thing to do. HCCP, the publisher conglomerate that owns Zondervan and Thomas Nelson, will probably get roughly the same royalties from Amazon than they would get from Logos...

Well if that's the case, then the reverse is the case too: the publisher conglomerate would get roughly the same royalties from Logos as they would get from Amazon, so why refuse to let Logos sell the same books? It might reach another customer base (admittedly small) that wouldn't buy on Amazon otherwise. Basically there's no harm in doing it. It might cost them some administrative expenses up front to set it up, so maybe that's what's preventing them from wanting to. But once they do that, watch the money roll in...!

Leo Wee Fah

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1297020#Comment_1297020

In this digital global age, why there is still such a restriction??

There were many books that were once available to purchase, somehow became "unavailable for you" over time...!

Think of the highly praised IVP `black' dictionaries... I have purchased all the volumes, but the latest updated volume on Paul is "not available" for us..[:(]

Yasmin Stephen

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1297011#Comment_1297011

I try to buy used paper books in such instances. Other than publishers I really hate it to see good books go to paper recycling, being burnt or put into a dump fill. Buying them saves that individual book and even helps people who save books (sometimes even with good intentions or the money they make with this. But I'm also helping small bookstores running a side business in hard times, or keep larger companies alive that keep the used-book-business alive, which is no small feat in these times). And I don't want to hand over royalty money to people who refuse to do business with me.

Not feasible for me. Putting aside the inconvenience of print, I can't buy the type of books I want locally. Only yesterday I was telling a friend about my 'adventure' of buying a print book for the first time in years: order it from the online store, pay for shipping to a US address, then pay the forwarding service at this US address to get the book to me. All this for a US$5.00 book that the publisher has no intention to turning into an ebook anytime soon. And yet I would have to pay twice everything I spent on the previous process if I were to have it shipped directly from the online store to me, with also the high possibility I'd either get the book months later or never get it at all (speaking from seasoned experience).

No, I can't see myself repeating this process anytime soon. Too expensive and time-consuming. Amazon and publisher can have my money if I really want the book.

Yasmin Stephen

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1297032#Comment_1297032

In this digital global age, why there is still such a restriction??

That's what I'd like to know as well. I did a little research earlier in the year and much of what I read implies it is related to tax collection but I don't know why that should be a problem.

(I've ran into this problem with music as well; I used to use Deezer and there were many songs I couldn't access in there due to geo-restrictions. Yet, when I got Spotify, more than 90% of these same songs were instantly available to me. Accessing both services from the same country with the same credit card for the same music, why can one give me access and the other can't?)

Bernhard

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1297041#Comment_1297041

I try to buy used paper books in such instances. Other than publishers I really hate it to see good books go to paper recycling, being burnt or put into a dump fill. Buying them saves that individual book and even helps people who save books (sometimes even with good intentions or the money they make with this. But I'm also helping small bookstores running a side business in hard times, or keep larger companies alive that keep the used-book-business alive, which is no small feat in these times). And I don't want to hand over royalty money to people who refuse to do business with me.

Not feasible for me. Putting aside the inconvenience of print, I can't buy the type of books I want locally. Only yesterday I was telling a friend about my 'adventure' of buying a print book for the first time in years: order it from the online store, pay for shipping to a US address, then pay the forwarding service at this US address to get the book to me. All this for a US$5.00 book that the publisher has no intention to turning into an ebook anytime soon. And yet I would have to pay twice everything I spent on the previous process if I were to have it shipped directly from the online store to me, with also the high possibility I'd either get the book months later or never get it at all (speaking from seasoned experience).

No, I can't see myself repeating this process anytime soon. Too expensive and time-consuming. Amazon and publisher can have my money if I really want the book.

An option I have used is a book scanning service, that turns paper books into PDFs. Prices are around 1-2 US$ per 100 pages. Combined with buying a used copy on Amazon and having it shipped directly to the scanning company, overall costs can be quite reasonable.

NB.Mick

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1297043#Comment_1297043

In this digital global age, why there is still such a restriction??

That's what I'd like to know as well. I did a little research earlier in the year and much of what I read implies it is related to tax collection but I don't know why that should be a problem.

I don't think it's tax at all. In some minor, but sometimes relevant cases it is the distribution of contractually geo-restricted publishing rights to different publishers (e.g. IVP US vs IVP UK, the Catholic bishop conferences). This has resulted in duplicate resources in the past. Since it is a contractual thing, it can be easily solved by contracts.

In the most relevant cases, HCCP and probably others, it is a powerplay in order to dictate pricing. Segmenting a market into local differentiated sub-markets allows for regionally different pricing and thus for maximized profits - so the theory. Thus publishers want to set different prices for their product, in line with local buying power, local market strategy etc. This allows for cheaper prices in developing economies with higher prices in more mature economies, but also to have different market positions (highest quality=price versus highest cost/benefit ratio versus maximum turnover at low prices) etc. HCCP "asked" Logos to implement localized pricing for eBooks (in local currency, which is how their local price lists are made up) and refused any other ideas.

Matt Bennett

Thanks for calling attention to this, and it’s frustrating to hear that these restrictions have led you to turn elsewhere to get these titles. Our goal is to make our wide selection of books and resources for bible study available to everyone, everywhere. In some cases, publishers require support for regional pricing in order to make titles available, and we are not able to deliver that today. This is an enhancement which we are planning, and I am confident you will see increased availability over time. As always, thank you for your continued support of Logos.

Rosie Perera

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1297073#Comment_1297073

In some cases, publishers require support for regional pricing in order to make titles available, and we are not able to deliver that today. This is an enhancement which we are planning, and I am confident you will see increased availability over time.

Thank you. I am truly looking forward to that.

Ronald Quick

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1297212#Comment_1297212

I'm curious, if you were to travel into the United States, could you purchase the book?

Bernhard

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1297237#Comment_1297237

I'm curious, if you were to travel into the United States, could you purchase the book?

I believe it is determined by billing address.

abondservant

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1297064#Comment_1297064

In this digital global age, why there is still such a restriction??

That's what I'd like to know as well. I did a little research earlier in the year and much of what I read implies it is related to tax collection but I don't know why that should be a problem.

I don't think it's tax at all. In some minor, but sometimes relevant cases it is the distribution of contractually geo-restricted publishing rights to different publishers (e.g. IVP US vs IVP UK, the Catholic bishop conferences). This has resulted in duplicate resources in the past. Since it is a contractual thing, it can be easily solved by contracts.

In the most relevant cases, HCCP and probably others, it is a powerplay in order to dictate pricing. Segmenting a market into local differentiated sub-markets allows for regionally different pricing and thus for maximized profits - so the theory. Thus publishers want to set different prices for their product, in line with local buying power, local market strategy etc. This allows for cheaper prices in developing economies with higher prices in more mature economies, but also to have different market positions (highest quality=price versus highest cost/benefit ratio versus maximum turnover at low prices) etc. HCCP "asked" Logos to implement localized pricing for eBooks (in local currency, which is how their local price lists are made up) and refused any other ideas.

Seems like an arbitrary thing that could be solved by a VPN connection. The publisher still gets the dollars.

Yasmin Stephen

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1297287#Comment_1297287

Seems like an arbitrary thing that could be solved by a VPN connection. The publisher still gets the dollars.

Not always; some businesses use IP address to determine location, but most (from my personal experience, anyway) use billing address. I've never tried it but I doubt that using a VPN would have any effect on my ability to buy geo-restricted books in the Logos store. And I don't intend to do this extra work to hand over my money. I'll buy it where it's easiest, or not buy it at all.

NichtnurBibelleser

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1297289#Comment_1297289

Now I run into a restriction today. I was musing about buying

"The New Jerusalem Bible: The Complete Text of the Ancient Canon of the Scriptures" or "The New Jerusalem Bible: Reader's Edition (NJB)"

But neither logos.com nor verbum.com allow me to purchase it - I'm located in Germany. On the german logos site the resource isn't displaying at all.

Can we expect to see positive changes here?