Ephesians 5 translation issue
I’m looking at Ephesians 5 because this is our Wednesday night study. Every translation into English translates chapter 5 v. 22 (ai yuvaîkes...) as a new sentence, each with a new paragraph and section heading. But it seems like it does not have a verb. I have confirmed this with a exegetical guide in Logos. Scholars I’ve read are very quiet on the issue of translation so I may not be reading enough. I read Lynn Cohick in NCCS, Harry Uprichard, Charles Talbert, Bryan Chappell, Darrell Bock, Grant Osborne, and Walter Liefeld. I have not been able to acquire the NICNT, WBC, or ICC on the Book of Ephesians but I do have the Lexham Research Commentary. This source is my next stop on my research trail. i also have not looked at articles on this particular verse. What resources would you all suggest? Is there a consensus on this verse? Can a sentence be correct without a verb? I was taught no and I had 9 semesters of Greek. Maybe this is incorrect and maybe I need a new Greek class on Ephesians. Also I know what Paul was trying to convey in this verse and passage.
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Christian Alexander said:
Every translation into English translates chapter 5 v. 22 (ai yuvaîkes...) as a new sentence, each with a new paragraph and section heading
This is not correct
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The Lexham English Bible and NRSV were the only two not in my comparison. The text, according to the earliest manuscripts, relies upon the participle υποτασσομενοι (“being submissive”) of the previous verse to complete the sense of this verse. I suspect that the verbal was added later by scribes, either as an imperative verb or as a participle. According to my suspicion, translators then follow suit in an effort to simplify things for their readers, typically by using the imperative verb. Additionally, I believe that use of the vocative in v. 22—especially in conjunction with the absence of a conjunction—would be sufficient to indicate the start of a new section. But is this a variant of the text? The closest thing I got to have this variant study was the NET Bible notes. I do not know how to read the Greek New Testament appartus. Crazy that after so many Greek classes I do not understand/remember this necessity in Greek language facility. I was probably taught but did not remember it.
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you may want to read works such as:
- Amazon.com: Applied Translation Studies: 9781137606082: Lee, Tong King: Books
- Amazon.com: Introducing Translation Studies: Theories and Applications (Volume 1): 9780415584890: Munday, Jeremy: Books
- Amazon.com: In Other Words: A Coursebook on Translation: 9780415467544: Baker, Mona, Baker, Mona: Books
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Christian Alexander said:
According to my suspicion
Stop! Dr. Barrell has become apoplectic! Dr. Barrell was the head of the philosophy department at Beloit and the head of the Rocky Mountain Botanical Institute. He didn't like girls in his classes because they say "I feel" rather than "I think". He was also openly prejudice against Marines and left-handers (his brother was both). More seriously, if you wonder
look at your exegetical guide for variants rather than asking in the forums. Learn to read the Greek apparatus - it's a basic skill. Do a search on verbless clauses in Greek. And don't preface your question with your guesses ... it opens the door for those who like to accuse you of pushing a particular agenda, something I don't think you do.Christian Alexander said:is this a variant of the text?
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Christian Alexander said:
According to my suspicion
Stop! Dr. Barrell has become apoplectic! Dr. Barrell was the head of the philosophy department at Beloit and the head of the Rocky Mountain Botanical Institute. He didn't like girls in his classes because they say "I feel" rather than "I think". He was also openly prejudice against Marines and left-handers (his brother was both). More seriously, if you wonder
look at your exegetical guide for variants rather than asking in the forums. Learn to read the Greek apparatus - it's a basic skill. Do a search on verbless clauses in Greek. And don't preface your question with your guesses ... it opens the door for those who like to accuse you of pushing a particular agenda, something I don't think you do.Christian Alexander said:is this a variant of the text?
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Sorry for posting my guesses. I thought they would help show where my mind was going with the question so it was not baseless. Thank you for the book suggestions. How can I do a search on verbless clauses in Greek for Ephesians 5? These two sites are helping me a lot and I think anyone on the forum who is studying Greek can benefit. https://dailydoseofgreek.com/greek-resources/nestle-aland-apparatus-symbols-2/ https://anneethompson.com/2021/01/11/understanding-the-apparatus-of-the-greek-new-testament/ I do not want to push a particular agenda. Sorry once again.
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Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Christian Alexander said:
Is there a consensus on this verse?.
No need to chase commentaries:
5:22 γυναῖκες τοῖς ἰδίοις ἀνδράσιν ὡς {B}
On the one hand, several early witnesses (𝔓46 B Clement1/2 Origen Greek mssacc. to Jerome Jerome Theodore) begin the new sentence without a main verb, thus requiring that the force of the preceding ὑποτασσόμενοι be carried over. On the other hand, the other witnesses read either ὑποτάσσεσθε or ὑποτασσέσθωσαν after either γυναῖκες or ἀνδράσιν. A majority of the Committee preferred the shorter reading, which accords with the succinct style of the author’s admonitions, and explained the other readings as expansions introduced for the sake of clarity, the main verb being required especially when the words Αἱ γυναῖκες stood at the beginning of a scripture lesson.--> Bruce Manning Metzger, United Bible Societies, A Textual Commentary on the Greek New Testament, Second Edition a Companion Volume to the United Bible Societies’ Greek New Testament (4th Rev. Ed.) (London; New York: United Bible Societies, 1994), 541.This is followed by SBLGNT, NA28. But many translations insert "submit" after "wives" .
Christian Alexander said:Can a sentence be correct without a verb? I was taught no and I had 9 semesters of Greek. Maybe this is incorrect and maybe I need a new Greek class on Ephesians.
Subject and predicate may be essential but A. T. Robertson also accepts verbless sentences "(f) ONLY SUBJECT. Likewise the predicate may be absent and only implied in the subject. Yet naturally the examples of this nature are far fewer than those when the predicate implies the subject". --> A. T. Robertson, A Grammar of the Greek New Testament in the Light of Historical Research (Logos Bible Software, 2006), 393.
This Grammar is more explicit: " In English, we always need a verb for a proper sentence—not so in Greek. In Greek (and other languages) a sentence can be verbless". H. Daniel Zacharias, Biblical Greek Made Simple: All the Basics in One Semester (Bellingham, WA: Lexham Press, 2018), 124.
Dave
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Christian Alexander said:
What resources would you all suggest?
Lexham Clausal Outlines
v.22 is a verbless clause that parallels the verb in v.21
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This has all been very helpful for my rabbit trail. It was enlightening.
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