How to force saving of "interlinear" settings for a particular pairing in multiple books display
I'm using the BHS and BHW in multiple books display with various English translations. I just want the "surface" text in the English translation, but by default Logos will open the translations (NASB20, NETS, NET, etc) with a whole bunch of options checked. It would be nice if there were a way to change the default behavior here, but I don't think that exists right now.
Somehow, under certain circumstances, Logos is smart enough to figure out what I want such that when I open another window it comes up with the same setting I used before. What I can't figure out it what triggers the saving, because in a (frustratingly) high percentage of cases it just doesn't happen and I end of unchecking five boxes.
Thanks for your help!
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hc said:
Somehow, under certain circumstances, Logos is smart enough to figure out what I want such that when I open another window it comes up with the same setting I used before
What do you mean by "another window"?.
If you are using the Layouts menu for this, you need a saved layout. It will preserve the settings for multiple books display.hc said:I'm using the BHS and BHW in multiple books display with various English translations. I just want the "surface" text in the English translation, but by default Logos will open the translations (NASB20, NETS, NET, etc) with a whole bunch of options checked
You need to clarify how you are opening the bibles and whether you mean the Inline Interlinear or the Interlinear Pane. Were they previously closed with multiple books and the Interlinear?
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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"another window" - I should have said "tab"
As to the other questions, I am using the BHW and BHS in "multiple books display" (see screenshot below) in a "saved layout". The three BHW pairings that I have in this saved layout always open with the inline interlinear settings (see red markings in screenshot) the way I had saved them with only the surface text displayed (and additional tabs I open with the BHW follow suit). The BHS + NASB pairing that I'm using - no matter how many times I uncheck the boxes and "update" the layout - always opens the way you see it below. Same thing if I open a new tab with BHS + NASB20 (after unchecking the boxes), and same thing if I close and reopen the saved layout.
I realize that if I switch the order so that the pairing is NASB20 + BHS it will default to having the inline interlinear turned off, but I still have to go through all the clicking because I need the Ketiv Qere turned-on.
Thanks for your help.
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"another window" - I should have said "tab"
As to the other questions, I am using the BHW and BHS in "multiple books display" (see screenshot below). The two BHW pairings that I have in this Saved Layout always open with the inline interlinear settings (see red markings in screenshot) the way I had saved them with only the surface text displayed. The BHS + NASB pairing that I'm using, no matter how many times I uncheck the boxes and resave the layout, always opens the way you see it below. Same thing if I open a new tab with BHS + NASB20 (after unchecking the boxes), and same thing if I close and reopen the saved layout.
I realize that if I switch the order so that the pairing is NASB20 + BHS it will default to having the inline interlinear turned off, but I still have to go through all the clicking because I need the Ketiv Qere turned-on.
Thanks for your help.
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If I have this situation:
I have a BHW tab with NASB95, Inline Interlinear applies to both and is the only option.
When I click the top "Inline Interlinear" check box to OFF, you see only the surface/manuscript text in both bibles. When I save the layout and then restore it, the display has been preserved.
Does this your match your situation?
Are you on Mac?
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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I am on Windows 11.
Logos Version info: Logos Bible Study 34.1 (34.1.9)No that does not match my situation. None of the inline interlinear settings are saved, whether I re-save ("update") the layout or not. If I (1) start from scratch with no tabs open, (2) open the BHS and turn on multiple window display selecting the NASB (or any English version for which I have a reverse interlinear), (3) configure the inline interlinear settings as I need them (I cannot just turn the whole function off, as I have explained above, but the results are the same if I do), (4) save the layout, (5) close all tabs, (6) reopen the layout, the result is that the inline interlinear settings are exactly what they were before I configured them in step (3). They have reverted to default.
I think this is a new bug. In my old layouts, the settings did save properly. I don't remember having this issue before the most recent couple/few weeks (maybe over a month??). Even now I can open up my old and everything loads and functions as expected, until I open a new tab with resources that were not part of the old layout. As I create new layouts to test the functionality, however, none of the interlinear settings get saved for any resources at all.
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I followed your steps with the BHS and the NASB95 in a multiple books display, and have the same problem ... I changed the interlinear setting to have inline with just surface text and manuscriptz, saved this as a layout ... after clsing and reopening the test layout the interlinear setting was changed back to include Lemma, morphology, strongs numbers and louw-nidda info.
Then I added another panel with the NASB95 in it, changed the interlinear options in that panel to just inline surface and manuscript, saved the layout again, reopened it and the interlinear setting was retained in the separate panel, but not retained in the multiple books display panel
The issue seems to happen when you have the two Bibles (BHS & NASB95) in the same panel and use the multiple books display. If the BHS is the master and the NASB95 the slave in the multiple books display, you have the problem; if the NASB95 is the master and BHS the slave the interlinear setting works as desired.
Wolfgang Schneider
(BibelCenter)
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There is a two part explanation for this behavior.
First, the inline interlinear settings are not saved as part of the layout. Instead, they are a preference that is loaded every time the resource is opened and saved when the resource is closed. You can see this demonstrated with the following steps.
- Clear your layout.
- Open a Bible that supports inline interlinear
- Turn on the inline interlinear
- Save the current layout as a new layout
- Modify the inline interlinear settings (either turn off or turn on a row)
- Close the Bible
- Reopen the Bible to confirm that your change still applies
- Close the Bible
- Load the previously saved layout
- Note that the Bible is open with your change applied, not as saved in the layout
This is also exactly what happens with Visual Filters.
Second, when you change interlinear settings with Multiple Book display turned on, only changes to the interlinear rows that are supported by the primary resource are saved.
While I sympathize with the problems these are causing you for your use case, these two behaviors are operating as intended, and we don't have any immediate plans to make changes here.
The best way to request a change in this case would be to create a suggestion at https://feedback.logos.com/boards/logos-desktop-app/ and post the link here so that others can vote on the suggestion.
Andrew Batishko | Logos software developer
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hc said:
If I (1) start from scratch with no tabs open, (2) open the BHS and turn on multiple window display selecting the NASB (or any English version for which I have a reverse interlinear), (3) configure the inline interlinear settings as I need them (I cannot just turn the whole function off, as I have explained above, but the results are the same if I do), (4) save the layout, (5) close all tabs, (6) reopen the layout, the result is that the inline interlinear settings are exactly what they were before I configured them in step (3). They have reverted to default.
Agree. I can reproduce the issue
As a compromise, configure as per step (3) then switch off the Inline Interlinear (top setting) and save the layout. The settings will be preserved when the layout is restored and you only have to click the Interlinear button to activate the settings for the Hebrew bible.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Andrew Batishko said:
There is a two part explanation for this behavior.
First, the inline interlinear settings are not saved as part of the layout. Instead, they are a preference that is loaded every time the resource is opened and saved when the resource is closed. You can see this demonstrated with the following steps.
- Clear your layout.
- Open a Bible that supports inline interlinear
- Turn on the inline interlinear
- Save the current layout as a new layout
- Modify the inline interlinear settings (either turn off or turn on a row)
- Close the Bible
- Reopen the Bible to confirm that your change still applies
- Close the Bible
- Load the previously saved layout
- Note that the Bible is open with your change applied, not as saved in the layout
Thank you.
So if I understand correctly the values loaded each time for the "inline interlinear" settings are loaded from defaults and not values that are configurable and savable by the user? I observe that the process that you outline above does not change the values loaded for the secondary resource in my use case. It would be sufficient for my purpose if the secondary resource in multiple books display were to load the same settings as the parent resource, but this is not the case. Am I reading this right?
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Dave Hooton said:
As a compromise, configure as per step (3) then switch off the Inline Interlinear (top setting) and save the layout. The settings will be preserved when the layout is restored and you only have to click the Interlinear button to activate the settings for the Hebrew bible.
Thanks, Dave. It doesn't appear to me that this saves any work. As soon as I turn the interlinear back on to get the Ketiv Qere, I'm back to where I started with five check-boxes to uncheck.
I realized why I thought it used to work... I was using the NETS which doesn't have interlinear options.
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Wolfgang Schneider said:
I followed your steps with the BHS and the NASB95 in a multiple books display, and have the same problem ... I changed the interlinear setting to have inline with just surface text and manuscriptz, saved this as a layout ... after clsing and reopening the test layout the interlinear setting was changed back to include Lemma, morphology, strongs numbers and louw-nidda info.
Then I added another panel with the NASB95 in it, changed the interlinear options in that panel to just inline surface and manuscript, saved the layout again, reopened it and the interlinear setting was retained in the separate panel, but not retained in the multiple books display panel
The issue seems to happen when you have the two Bibles (BHS & NASB95) in the same panel and use the multiple books display. If the BHS is the master and the NASB95 the slave in the multiple books display, you have the problem; if the NASB95 is the master and BHS the slave the interlinear setting works as desired.
Thank you for your helpful reply, Wolfgang. I may end up setting things up this way, but it is not my ideal for two reasons:
1. as I mentioned, I need the Ketiv Qere turned-on, so I need to configure that manually every time anyway.
2. With the English version as the master resource I lose the flexibility to change-out the English translation for the sake of comparison (between Septuagint, Targum, and modern translations, for example).
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hc said:
So if I understand correctly the values loaded each time for the "inline interlinear" settings are loaded from defaults and not values that are configurable and savable by the user? I observe that the process that you outline above does not change the values loaded for the secondary resource in my use case. It would be sufficient for my purpose if the secondary resource in multiple books display were to load the same settings as the parent resource, but this is not the case. Am I reading this right?
Yes, I believe you are correct. Your observation about "does not change the values loaded for the secondary use case" is what I was trying to get at with my second point: "when you change interlinear settings with Multiple Book display turned on, only changes to the interlinear rows that are supported by the primary resource are saved".
When using multiple resource view, where an inline interlinear setting exists in both the parent and secondary resource, it should use the value stored for the parent resource. The problem with using the value stored for the secondary resource is apparent when the parent and secondary resource both have that setting but with conflicting values (one on and the other off), or where there are multiple secondary resources that provide the same setting that have conflicting values.
I'm not sure there's a good way to make this work in a clear manner without reconsidering the entire approach, which is why I recommend the feedback post, since those would be strongly considered if we were looking to make significant changes in this area of the application.
Andrew Batishko | Logos software developer
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[quote]
When using multiple resource view, where an inline interlinear setting exists in both the parent and secondary resource, it should use the value stored for the parent resource. The problem with using the value stored for the secondary resource is apparent when the parent and secondary resource both have that setting but with conflicting values (one on and the other off), or where there are multiple secondary resources that provide the same setting that have conflicting values.
Thanks for another detailed reply.
In this case (primary: BHW - highlighted green, secondary: NASB20 - highlighted orange) there are no shared settings between primary and secondary resources.
Are you saying the behavior here is explained by the following: (1) Logos tries to load all settings from primary resource (BHW), (2) fails to find most of the settings because they are not attributes of the primary resource, (3) loads default values for the remaining settings?
I would hope that at step (2) it would look for the settings in the secondary resource, but the current example demonstrates that that does not happen.
I am trying here to rule out the possibility that I might be missing something about how the settings are loaded. If the relevant settings were being loaded from anywhere besides hardcoded defaults, I would have a workaround. If they are hardcoded defaults, clearly I have nothing.
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hc said:
Are you saying the behavior here is explained by the following: (1) Logos tries to load all settings from primary resource (BHW), (2) fails to find most of the settings because they are not attributes of the primary resource, (3) loads default values for the remaining settings?
Correct.
In your particular use case there is no overlap. However, that will not always be the case, and we weren't happy with it working one way sometimes and another way at other times (for no obvious reason).
I recognize that the way it works isn't great and doesn't provide you with a way to set things up the way you want. Unfortunately, it's not a problem we've got an immediate solution for.
Andrew Batishko | Logos software developer
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