What is the cost of books included in the subscription?
Aaron Hamilton said:
Mark Barnes (Logos) said:FWIW, there are no NEW features in Logos Max that are not also in Logos Pro. Right now, the difference between the two packages is the number of books included (500 vs 400), and a bunch of advanced original language features previously included in the Logos 10 full feature set.
This comment betrays the notion that included books do not significantly add to the price of the subscription. If a subscription including 500 books increases the price as compared to a subscription including 400, then a subscription including 400 would increase the price as compared to a subscription including 0. I would love to see an opt out option for included books in order to decrease subscription price, even if it isn't a "substantial" difference.
Hi Aaron,
Good connecting of the dots, my friend.
I took this from the other thread so that this issue will be highlighted and receive a response that won’t get buried
I took the information here https://www.logos.com/early-access/subscriptions to Excel. There are 296 books in Premium, 586 books in Pro (extra 290 books) and 689 books in Max (extra 103 books)
The price increases from $10/month (Premium) to $13/month (Max) - a 30% increase, purely for the extra 103 books.
2 follow up questions then would be:
1. how much of the price increase from $7/month (Premium) to $10/month (Pro version) is due to additional 290 books (from above, note that it costs $3/month extra for the 103 extra books in Max)?
2. how much of the $7/month (Premium) is due to the 296 included books?
I believe in a Win-Win-Win God.
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1Cor10 31 said:
2. how much of the $7/month (Premium) is due to the 296 included books?
For those of us who have been supporting Logos via subscription model for awhile (November 2016 for me); I trust they will respect the commitment to BOTH buy resources and rent features [even if I have to purchase resources to make the feature useful]. This gives me the flexibility to only "resource the features" that are valuable to me.
Having lived through "break up these bundles" and "create a no-resources option to Connect"; I believe the few who are still with Logos who navigated these minefields have something to offer the newer decision-makers.
Making Disciples! Logos Ecosystem = LogosMax on Microsoft Surface Pro 7 (Win11), Android app on tablet, FSB on iPhone & iPad mini, Proclaim (Proclaim Remote on Fire Tablet).
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I just have this feeling like we will have some good choices and everything is going to be alright.
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GaoLu said:
I just have this feeling like we will have some good choices and everything is going to be alright.
GaoLu! How is everything alright? Mark Barnes has repeatedly said that we will not be paying for resources we own. He also says that the books included in the subscription costs nothing. IF so, please please make all these books available along with the free engine. The reason Logos doesn't make these books available with the free engine is because they will have to pay the publisher every time a new user signs up for the free engine.
It is IMMORAL to ask us to pay for resources we already own.
I believe in a Win-Win-Win God.
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1Cor10 31 said:
The price increases from $10/month (Premium) to $13/month (Max) - a 30% increase, purely for the extra 103 books.
That should be Pro
1Cor10 31 said:2 follow up questions then would be:
1. how much of the price increase from $7/month (Premium) to $10/month (Pro version) is due to additional 290 books
It might be that Pro is the premium subscription[:D]
I've been struck by the naming of the subscriptions. Max ---really! Any new subscription could not possibly top that.Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Dave Hooton said:
I've been struck by the naming of the subscriptions. Max ---really! Any new subscription could not possibly top that.
Max Plus 😛
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1Cor10 31 said:
It is IMMORAL to ask us to pay for resources we already own.
This is where the lack of Dynamic Pricing for the subscriptions punishes those with large libraries.... Especially those that also have the L10 Full Feature Set.... There is some question of whether Logos cares for the long term and deeply invested customer - when someone who has invested in only the Feature Set pays the same as someone who also has the Feature Set and some or all of the books included with the subscription....
IMHO, this is one of the bigger failures of the Subscription model - unless they fix it - whether figuring out a Dynamic price option that discounts the cost if you own the books, or create a pool of books the user can choose from, but that sounds like a nightmare to manage....
Just another reason to not eliminate the traditional purchase/upgrade option. The traditional upgrade rewarded you for own books, the subscription punishes you - so while I do not believe it is their intent - Logos is saying we don't care how much you've invested and supported us - you get no credit for books you own....
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 16 & Android 14
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Yasmin Stephen said:Dave Hooton said:
I've been struck by the naming of the subscriptions. Max ---really! Any new subscription could not possibly top that.
Max Plus 😛
Ultra Max
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 16 & Android 14
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Frank Sauer said:Yasmin Stephen said:Dave Hooton said:
I've been struck by the naming of the subscriptions. Max ---really! Any new subscription could not possibly top that.
Max Plus 😛
Ultra Max
Ultra Max Plus. No worries, mate—that's three more levels! 🙃
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Frank Sauer said:
There is some question of whether Logos cares for the long term and deeply invested customer
It is the way the entire tech and software industry is going. You now Lease Microsoft Office, they do not want you to purchase.
I am no prophet, but I predict they will soon begin a big move into leasing the resources rather than selling them. Just as several other Bible study websites are already doing. With Logos, so far it seems to be mostly public domain and Lexham titles included. But if the publishers of expensive resources will allow it, why can't they be leased? Crossway is offering a subscription to all the ESV related items they publish for $3.99/month. Many other publishers are too.
I am also concerned that new development will be only AI and "cloud features", when there is still a lot that could be done to improve the desktop program. Not to mention that the mobile editions are lacking in the most desirable mobile features, such as synchronizing audio books with books and Bibles. They did it for the Lexham and ESV ... maybe a couple others. But no Greek or Hebrew.
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John said:
It is the way the entire tech and software industry is going. You now Lease Microsoft Office, they do not want you to purchase.
I've seen this posted a few times by users in the threads - you can indeed buy Perpetual licenses for Microsoft Office. You can still buy Office 2021 and Microsoft announced that Office 2024 will be offered for perpetual license purchase with 5 years of support.
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 16 & Android 14
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John said:
I am also concerned that new development will be only AI and "cloud features", when there is still a lot that could be done to improve the desktop program. Not to mention that the mobile editions are lacking in the most desirable mobile features, such as synchronizing audio books with books and Bibles. They did it for the Lexham and ESV ... maybe a couple others. But no Greek or Hebrew.
This is an area that I hope Logos is indeed listening - not all users want AI dominated Features....
If you have any ideas for current features needing improvements or New non AI features - I started a thread here for those ideas....
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 16 & Android 14
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Frank Sauer said:
you can indeed buy Perpetual licenses for Microsoft Office. You can still buy Office 2021 and Microsoft announced that Office 2024 will be offered for perpetual license purchase with 5 years of support
Yep. I own a copy of 2019 and 2021. But I still prefer 2010 [:)]
Just to be clear, the version you can still purchase is the Home and Student version, which can only be installed on one PC and is only licensed for non-commercial use.
Home and Student includes Word, Excel, PowerPoint and OneNote, but lacks the Outlook, Publisher, and Access that comes with the subscription.
With Office 365 at $7/month for personal use, it is a great deal *if* you want/need Outlook and an email account. I don't need those because I find Apples iCloud email to be perfect (and free).
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Maybe my voice doesn't matter that much because I haven't seen anything that I want to subscribe to. That might make everything seem better to me than it seems to others. Quality resources, functioning features, and quick, quality searching are what I hope for. The subscription model seems to be drifting away from all those. I am not yet motivated to pay Logos to go the wrong direction.1Cor10 31 said:GaoLu said:I just have this feeling like we will have some good choices and everything is going to be alright.
GaoLu! How is everything alright? Mark Barnes has repeatedly said that we will not be paying for resources we own. He also says that the books included in the subscription costs nothing. IF so, please please make all these books available along with the free engine. The reason Logos doesn't make these books available with the free engine is because they will have to pay the publisher every time a new user signs up for the free engine.
It is IMMORAL to ask us to pay for resources we already own.
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GaoLu said:
Maybe my voice doesn't matter that much because I haven't seen anything that I want subscribe to. That might make everything seem better to me than it seems to others. Quality resources, functioning features, and quick, quality searching are what I hope for. The subscription model seems to be drifting away from all those. I am not yet motivated to pay Logos go the wrong direction.
That's about how I view it also. I am interested in Logos being a continued success, but I am unsure if anything they will do with the software in the future will interest me. I would like to see video's of the new features being used. Maybe I will subscribe just to try it out. But I did not buy into Logos with the idea that I wanted a cloud-based system.
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John said:Frank Sauer said:
you can indeed buy Perpetual licenses for Microsoft Office. You can still buy Office 2021 and Microsoft announced that Office 2024 will be offered for perpetual license purchase with 5 years of support
Yep. I own a copy of 2019 and 2021. But I still prefer 2010
Just to be clear, the version you can still purchase is the Home and Student version, which can only be installed on one PC and is only licensed for non-commercial use.
Home and Student includes Word, Excel, PowerPoint and OneNote, but lacks the Outlook, Publisher, and Access that comes with the subscription.
With Office 365 at $7/month for personal use, it is a great deal *if* you want/need Outlook and an email account. I don't need those because I find Apples iCloud email to be perfect (and free).
Home and Student is the one mainly recognized - Office Pro is still available for purchase as well and includes the apps you mention that are not included in Home and Student.
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 16 & Android 14
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Frank Sauer said:
Home and Student is the one mainly recognized - Office Pro is still available for purchase as well and includes the apps you mention that are not included in Home and Student.
Thanks for the link. Do you have $439.99 I can borrow? [;)]
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John said:
Crossway is offering a subscription to everything they publish for $3.99/month.
Actually, Crossway is offering through their ESV subscription "access to the full range of premium study and audio features available online and in the app, including the complete ESV online library, original language tools, audio Bibles, customizable background music, curated playlists and reading plans, and more."
Most of the content they publish is not included in their ESV online library.
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John said:
Crossway is offering a subscription to everything they publish for $3.99/month. Many other publishers are too.
I know this will be off-topic but I followed the link and I'm not seeing anything in there that suggests Crossway is offering access to "everything they publish for $3.99/month". Did you give the correct link or am I missing something?
ETA: Chad beat me to it.
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Chad Katter said:
Most of the content they publish is not included in their ESV online library.
Yes you are correct. I was able to edit my previous post. It is limited to only ESV resources. But thats still quite a deal at $4/month [:)]
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I hope Logos will keep alive the old profitable model (or we were always told it was), because they may be positioning themselves to where they have to compete using high prices with a burgeoning low-priced competition. Might pay to keep one leg back on the other side of the fence.
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