a question from an Accordance User
Comments
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MJ. Smith said:
It brought up Copy, Search, and Send to Proclaim because those are the functioned available when you select "selection" in search results. The left side is the selection side of the Context Menu, the right side are the actions available for that selection. But it is uncommon to use the Search result listing as your starting point for actions. The normal pattern is search result --> Bible --> Context Menu because that is what provides you with the full array of Logos options.
I see, thank you for clarifying! [:)]
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Graham Criddle said:
Instead of right-clicking, try simply clicking a result which will open the Bible you are searching to that search result
Hi Graham,
If I just click, it does literally nothing. If I right click, it brings up Proclaim. However, I think this is explained by what MJ just said, that you are searching in the Bible (per your screenshot), while I was clicking on things originating from a search (from following the tutorial. Granted, he didn't tell me to click on it, I just tried to).
Graham Criddle said:And the reason it starts in John is the Aa button (outlined in blue below) is constraining the search to match case - and the first occurrence of Father with a capital F is in John
Perhaps I am missing something, but I don't think that is the case.
In the ESV (my non-Greek Bible set in Logos), the capital "Father" occurs first in Mt 5:16.
In Greek (which is being used in my screenshot), the capital word first occurs in Mt 6:9.0 -
Hi Kristin
Kristin said:If I just click, it does literally nothing. If I right click, it brings up Proclaim. However, I think this is explained by what MJ just said, that you are searching in the Bible (per your screenshot), while I was clicking on things originating from a search (from following the tutorial. Granted, he didn't tell me to click on it, I just tried to).
I'm sorry but I'm confused. I clicked on a result in a search - where I was searching a Bible - so clicking on something originating from a search. I think we are speaking at cross purposes but I can't figure out how to communicate differently.
If MJ's explanation sorted it, that's great
Kristin said:And if you ran the search against the ESV instead of the Greek Bible you would get the hit in Matt 5:16
But, in Greek, even though the Greek word is capitalised in Matt 6:9 the gloss father is not (you can see this by hovering over the word). The first gloss for father with a capital F is in John 1:14 (I'm not saying that the gloss is correct but just explaining the search results you are seeing)
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Kristin said:
I would disagree about the lack of "serious effort" comment.
I apologize for that comment. What was going on in my head is that it simply hasn't been a long enough time for you to thoroughly learn the Logos software. Even with "serious effort", one or two weeks of access to the full feature set just isn't enough time to learn it all. I expressed this thought inconsiderately and inaccurately.
Kristin said:the Help center is too general and too long at the same time.
The Help Center is literally brand new within the Logos software. I don't know precisely when it was rolled out beyond beta, but we're talking less than a month. They're trying to organize their "Help" content with the help of AI in a way that will provide a superior experience to browsing websites online. It still needs a lot of work. The fact that a lot of the helpful content is locked behind a paywall is currently in my opinion the most glaring problem (which I know they are actively addressing).
Kristin said:Clicking on a word brings up Proclaim again, and it is starting in John. Any ideas why?
It would likely be helpful if you would try to avoid right clicking while inside the search tool. The search tool has not been designed in such a way that this would be helpful in most circumstances. It is meant to search and locate information. It is not designed to be a space from which one can then engage in study. You would have to open up the reference, once it is found, and then engage in study from there. That being said, If you click on the Bible reference on the left side of the context menu, you will see a few options appear on the right side. The options on the right side change, depending on what you select on the left. As to your question concerning "Father," I know it has something to do with the capital "F," but I'm not entirely sure what's going on here.
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Kristin said:Graham Criddle said:
Instead of right-clicking, try simply clicking a result which will open the Bible you are searching to that search result
Hi Graham,
If I just click, it does literally nothing. If I right click, it brings up Proclaim.
Click on the actual word in the search returns, the word highlighted in yellow. Not just somewhere in the verse. It opens up a new tab.
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Aaron Hamilton said:
What was going on in my head is that it simply hasn't been a long enough time for you to thoroughly learn the Logos software. Even with "serious effort", one or two weeks of access to the full feature set just isn't enough time to learn it all.
Your point is well-taken though, and I agree. Several of us are new users trying to adapt to the way Logos functions and there's definitely a learning curve. Some things feel odd, some things could be improved with feedback from a different perspective, but mostly we just need time to learn the program. We didn't master Accordance in just a few weeks either. Speaking as one of the newbies asking questions that might seem silly to you all, thank you all very much for your patience with us and for all of the gracious help you've offered. It's much appreciated.
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Graham Criddle said:
And if you ran the search against the ESV instead of the Greek Bible you would get the hit in Matt 5:16
But, in Greek, even though the Greek word is capitalised in Matt 6:9 the gloss father is not (you can see this by hovering over the word). The first gloss for father with a capital F is in John 1:14 (I'm not saying that the gloss is correct but just explaining the search results you are seeing)
Hi Graham,
I can't post a screenshot from that search box (since it is starting in John), but here is a screenshot of the NA28.
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Aaron Hamilton said:
It would likely be helpful if you would try to avoid right clicking while inside the search tool. The search tool has not been designed in such a way that this would be helpful in most circumstances. It is meant to search and locate information. It is not designed to be a space from which one can then engage in study.
Thank you, I will keep that in mind! [:)]
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Hi Kristin
Kristin said:I can't post a screenshot from that search box (since it is starting in John), but here is a screenshot of the NA28.
I agree the Greek word is capitalised in Matt 6:9 and if you search for that word, with matching caps set, it is returned
But the gloss for the word is not capitalised (see blue outline below) and so when you search for Father with matching caps set it does not match
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For context... in Accordance, all text windows are search windows. We do the searching right in the window and can interact with the results the same way you would in a window where you're just reading. Logos search seems to be functionally more like a Google search or something, where you find the hits and then open them to actually interact with them. Being aware of this paradigm difference might be helpful for both sides of the discussion here.
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Graham Criddle said:
But the gloss for the word is not capitalised (see blue outline below) and so when you search for Father with matching caps set it does not match
Would I be correct in identifying this as a bug/error? I believe using Greek words to search through Greek text would likely return more accurate results.
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Jonathan Huber said:
For context... in Accordance, all text windows are search windows. We do the searching right in the window and can interact with the results the same way you would in a window where you're just reading.
For searches discussed so far in this thread - yes
But there is also an Inline Search capability where you can search directly within the text and the text is filtered to just show matching terms.
Details on Inline Search are at https://support.logos.com/hc/en-us/articles/360016524471-Inline-Search
Jonathan Huber said:Being aware of this paradigm difference might be helpful for both sides of the discussion here.
Thanks - and how similar is the Accordance functionality to the Inline Search I have outlined above? Or is it something very different?
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Aaron Hamilton said:
Would I be correct in identifying this as a bug/error?
I would think so - but someone from Logos would need to comment on that.
Aaron Hamilton said:I believe using Greek words to search through Greek text would likely return more accurate results.
Absolutely agree
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Graham Criddle said:
how similar is the Accordance functionality to the Inline Search I have outlined above? Or is it something very different?
Good question. I did discover inline search and have found it useful. Accordance has a Find function that's similar. The searching capability I described above is more like Logos's Search tab.
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Jonathan Huber said:
The searching capability I described above is more like Logos's Search tab.
Thanks - but I'm a little confused.
The Inline Search option provides the ability to do Bible, Book or Morph style searches - with (most of) the functionality available in the Search window.
So I guess I'm struggling to understand how it is different to how it works in Accordance (and I know I don't need to know but it might be helpful when trying to advise on how Logos works)
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Jonathan Huber said:
Accordance has a Find function that's similar.
You know Logos has a Find function in addition to the inline search function.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Graham Criddle said:Jonathan Huber said:
The searching capability I described above is more like Logos's Search tab.
Thanks - but I'm a little confused.
The Inline Search option provides the ability to do Bible, Book or Morph style searches - with (most of) the functionality available in the Search window.
So I guess I'm struggling to understand how it is different to how it works in Accordance (and I know I don't need to know but it might be helpful when trying to advise on how Logos works)
You're right, the inline can do more than a simple find when driven from the context menu (edit: I confused inline with the find function, though the rest of this still seems relevant here). But the options in Accordance in a text tab are the full function of the Logos Search tab for a Bible or Morph search, or even Clause or Syntax info. See the screenshot for an illustration. And you can interact fully with those returns just like you would any verse in a text tab. Please understand I'm not claiming one of these is necessarily better; it just seems that different assumptions about how windows work are behind some of the confusion in this thread; thought this might help.
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MJ. Smith said:Jonathan Huber said:
Accordance has a Find function that's similar.
You know Logos has a Find function in addition to the inline search function.
Ah, thanks for the correction. I'm still getting these different options confused.
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Jonathan Huber said:
But the options in Accordance in a text tab are the full function of the Logos Search tab for a Bible or Morph search, or even Clause or Syntax info.
Clause and syntax are omitted but
Verbum Help said:Inline Search
Search within any open book using Inline Search to see a filtered view of the text based on the search terms entered. There are three ways to access Inline Search from within a book:
1. Click the search icon on the resource toolbar.
2. Select text, right-click the selection, and click Inline in the Search section of the Context menu.
3. Press Ctrl+Shift+F (Windows) or Shift+Cmd+F (macOS).Click the downward-facing arrow to the left of the Translation Sidebar icon to see previously visited locations in the current book, including Inline Search history.
To perform an Inline Search:1. Open the Inline Search panel using one of the options listed above.
2. When searching within a Bible, select from Book, Bible, or Morph in the left dropdown to choose which type of search to run.
3. Click All Bible Text or All Text to select particular search fields.
4. For Bibles, click All Passages to limit the verse ranges.
5. At the right of the search bar, choose how much of the surrounding context to display by selecting from either Sentence, Paragraph, or Article. In Bibles, the options are Verse, Paragraph, and Pericope.6. Enter the search term(s), and if applicable, click the plus icon in the search bar to see additional search suggestions based on the characters entered into the search bar.
Use the Keyboard Selector to toggle between the default keyboard and original language keyboards.
7. Press Enter to run the search. The resource view will filter to show the text ranges containing the term(s) based on the available options such as Verse, Paragraph, Pericope, etc.
Chart Search ResultsClick the charts button to visualize the search results with the Charts tool.
Send Results to Another DocumentAfter running a search, click the share button and select where to send it.
The options are:
• Bibliography Document
• Passage List Document (available when using the Bible or Morph search type within a Bible)
• Search panel
• Visual Filter Document
• Word List Document
Close Inline SearchClick the x at the right side within the search box to the right of number of search results to clear the search and return to the default resource view.
or:
Click the X at the right side of the panel to close the Inline Search panel completely.
Verbum Help (Bellingham, WA: Faithlife, 2024).Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Yep, Inline does more than I gave it credit for. Thank you.
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The new dynamic tool bar is going to make these functions more intuitive.
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If I'm searching the Bible itself without going to a Search tab, how can I specify case sensitivity?
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Donovan R. Palmer said:
The new dynamic tool bar is going to make these functions more intuitive.
I look forward to that! I just upgraded to the Full Feature Set to get ready for the next version. I do hope getting the full use of Logos will become more intuitive or at least uses a more natural language input. When I was writing code in Fortran in the latter 1960's I was so envious of the future portrayed on Star Trek that just used natural language to interact with the computer. That scene from Star Trek IV with Scotty and the Mac Plus absolutely epitomizes my feelings about command line input in software today.
Nevertheless, Logos 10 is so much more more useful than the LLS 2.9 I started with many years ago!
—Solly
Joseph F. Sollenberger, Jr.
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Mark Allison said:
If I'm searching the Bible itself without going to a Search tab, how can I specify case sensitivity?
Quotation marks should do the trick.
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Aaron Hamilton said:
Quotation marks should do the trick.
Next question: since quotes are also how you specify a phrase, how do you specify a phrase and also let Logos know that you care about case sensitivity?
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Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Kristin said:
If I just click, it does literally nothing. If I right click, it brings up Proclaim. However, I think this is explained by what MJ just said, that you are searching in the Bible (per your screenshot), while I was clicking on things originating from a search (from following the tutorial. Granted, he didn't tell me to click on it, I just tried to).
Hi Kristin,
I am actually a bit out of my depth here but maybe these screen snip-its will draw attention to what MJ was explaining to you.
That right-click pop-up context menu that you accessed from the search panel has 3 options on the left side. Choosing each will affect the options available on the right side.
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Mark Allison said:
If I'm searching the Bible itself without going to a Search tab, how can I specify case sensitivity?
The @ symbol will trigger the dropdown menu where you can select attributes like case. eg lemma.g:πατήρ@
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Thanks, Roy. Such a simple little "trick" that I (a relatively newbie) never knew.
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