a question from an Accordance User
Comments
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MJ. Smith said:
Unless I have misunderstood something, this wiki appears to be a bit dated. I have found the following search to be sensitive to both the case and the exact wording: match.all:"Text goes here exactly as you want to search it"
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Note to all Accordance-escapees to Logos: We could argue all day about what is intuitive, Apple vs. Windows conventions etc. but what we should be able to agree on is that Logos is designed for users who will poke around and see what happens as opposed to the users who want all the behaviors described in detail before they try it. Which is to say, for many the fastest way to learn Logos is to click, alt-click- right click, etc. everywhere and see what happens. You'll soon find the patterns that make it possible to easily navigate Logis. If you aren't comfortable with this style of learning, expect a slower learning curve.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Aaron Hamilton said:
Unless I have misunderstood something, this wiki appears to be a bit dated.
Yes, it is the old syntax - but the Search will actually show you how to convert it to the new syntax.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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MJ. Smith said:
Yes, it is the old syntax - but the Search will actually show you how to convert it to the new syntax.
Thank you. You're right; that's helpful. Now that we're talking about inline search, is there a way to jump from one result to the next/previous? Or is scrolling the results the only way to navigate?
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Jonathan Huber said:
The @ symbol will trigger the dropdown menu where you can select attributes like case. eg lemma.g:πατήρ@
I think that only works when you're in a search tab, but not when you're in a Bible tab. I'm trying to see how much work I can do inside a Bible tab, which would be much more similar to the way Accordance works.
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Also (I admit, I don't work with inline search much), if I try to type anywhere except at the end in an inline search, it moves me to the end of my search. So if I want to change something in the search, I basically have to start over, since making modifications is a frustrating process. Is this normal?
Edit: This appears to be a glitch. Inline search works normally after I restart Logos as long as I stick to one Bible translation. But after opening an inline search in another Bible translation, it then begins to give me problems, in the original inline search as well.
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Roy said:
That right-click pop-up context menu that you accessed from the search panel has 3 options on the left side. Choosing each will affect the options available on the right side.
I'm not sure, but some of the confusion may come from whether or not you're right-clicking on a highlighted word from your search (or not). If I right-click on a highlighted word in the search tab, I get the various menu options:
But if I right click on a word that's not highlighted, I only get the "Proclaim" option:
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Donovan R. Palmer said:Mark Allison said:
When I'm performing searches like this I don't want to recreate the query or save it. I just want to be able to glance at what I've done during a cursory comparison. I realize the tabs will get smaller and the text unreadable, which is why every program I've ever used that had tabs would allow the user to hover over the tab to see the full name in a popup.
I understand that I could adjust my workflow in a way that Logos believes is best for me, but if tabs were able to be renamed, I wouldn't have to adjust my workflow at all, and neither would the many Accordance users that will be moving to Logos in the near future. ...I agree. When you are trying to return to a piece of your work, you can quickly hover each tab. The alternative is that you have to study the contents of that panel which adds friction to your workflow.
In my opinion, this would not be disruptive to the UI. It will stay out of the way performing as a static tab label to the users that don’t want it. It would be a real value add though to those that mange large numbers of tabs.
You should support a request to Logos to rename tabs on desktop And add comments. More support will increase the chance of being implemented. There is also a request for Tab Groups.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Mark Allison said:Jonathan Huber said:
The @ symbol will trigger the dropdown menu where you can select attributes like case. eg lemma.g:πατήρ@
I think that only works when you're in a search tab, but not when you're in a Bible tab. I'm trying to see how much work I can do inside a Bible tab, which would be much more similar to the way Accordance works.
I copied that string right out of an inline search where I tested it to make sure. It works.
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Jonathan Huber said:
I copied that string right out of an inline search where I tested it to make sure. It works.
Ah, I see the confusion. I was talking about case sensitivity (upper and lower) and you were talking about grammatical form.
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MJ. Smith said:
Note to all Accordance-escapees to Logos: We could argue all day about what is intuitive, Apple vs. Windows conventions etc. but what we should be able to agree on is that Logos is designed for users who will poke around and see what happens as opposed to the users who want all the behaviors described in detail before they try it. Which is to say, for many the fastest way to learn Logos is to click, alt-click- right click, etc. everywhere and see what happens. You'll soon find the patterns that make it possible to easily navigate Logis. If you aren't comfortable with this style of learning, expect a slower learning curve.
👍
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I've been trying to wrap my head around reasons to search in the Bible tab, or search in the Search tab. Seems to me that most basic searches in English and the original languages can be performed in a Bible tab. It's only when you want to do something more advanced, or search multiple texts, that you would perform a search in the Search tab.
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Mark Allison said:
But if I right click on a word that's not highlighted, I only get the "Proclaim" option:
Just so that we are using the same terminology [;)] the word αὐτοῦ IS highlighted as it has a blue background AND the pop-up menu shows that word as a selection.
I do not know the answer but I do notice this. Your selected word is NOT the word for which the search was conducted.
Try this on ANY other word in that search pane which is also NOT the search term and I think that you will get the same result, that is "Send to Proclaim".
I "Think" I saw this explained once as follows.
The Search results window is not a Bible Pane and the majority of the things you can do with the text in said search pane are not the same as you would be able to do to the text in an actual Bible pane.
Case in point: The third screen shot that I posted above shows a very limited verse level context menu where-as this would show a context menu that is much more advanced when performing a right click on the same word in an actual Bible pane would be displayed. This gives you a much wider range of tools to access and use on your verse/reference/word selection.
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Thanks for the clarification! Yes, that's exactly what's happening. And it's pretty confusing when you have no idea why clicking on two words next to each other give you different results.Roy said:Mark Allison said:But if I right click on a word that's not highlighted, I only get the "Proclaim" option:
Just so that we are using the same terminology
the word αὐτοῦ IS highlighted as it has a blue background AND the pop-up menu shows that word as a selection.I do not know the answer but I do notice this. Your selected word is NOT the word for which the search was conducted.
Try this on ANY other word in that search pane which is also NOT the search term and I think that you will get the same result, that is "Send to Proclaim".
I "Think" I saw this explained once as follows.
The Search results window is not a Bible Pane and the majority of the things you can do with the text in said search pane are not the same as you would be able to do to the text in an actual Bible pane.
Case in point: The third screen shot that I posted above shows a very limited verse level context menu where-as this would show a context menu that is much more advanced when performing a right click on the same word in an actual Bible pane. This gives you a much wider range of tools to access and use on your verse/reference/word selection.
It's one reason that I'm trying as much as possible to perform all my searches in the Bible pane.0 -
Aaron Hamilton said:
Or is scrolling the results the only way to navigate?
No, just set the next/prior arrowheads to "search results"
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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MJ. Smith said:Aaron Hamilton said:
Or is scrolling the results the only way to navigate?
No, just set the next/prior arrowheads to "search results"
And somewhat relatedly, you can set your display to show only your hit verses without any context:
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Mark Allison said:
I'm not sure, but some of the confusion may come from whether or not you're right-clicking on a highlighted word from your search (or not). If I right-click on a highlighted word in the search tab, I get the various menu options:
But if I right click on a word that's not highlighted, I only get the "Proclaim" option:
Logos does not expect you to work directly in the search panel - the search results are limited pretty much to the surface text. But you need to look at it from the point of view of the selection half of the context menu. In the top screen shot you have selected the Bible reference - see blue line on the left of the reference and the top line of the action side. In the bottom screen shot you have selected the selection where you have copy, 3 forms of search, and the send to proclaim option.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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MJ. Smith said:
No, no, no ... it has nothing to do with the highlighting
No, I didn't select the verse reference. In the first image I highlighted patros and in the second image I highlighted autou. I shouldn't have used the word "highlight," it was the wrong term. In the first image patros was the search term and autous was not. That's the difference.
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Mark Allison said:
That's the difference.
You will screw yourself over many times if you think of it as anything other than "what is selected on the left controls what appears on the right" - it is irrelevant whether it opened to the left option by default, as last used, as the only option .. That option is still what controls what options appear.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Mark Allison said:
I've been trying to wrap my head around reasons to search in the Bible tab, or search in the Search tab.
In Logosese reasons to use an inline search in a Bible panel/tab or to use the Search panel/tab.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Mark Allison said:
In the first image I highlighted patros and in the second image I highlighted autou.
In Logosese, use "selected" rather than "highlighted"
Mark Allison said:In the first image patros was the search term and autous was not. That's the difference.
Correct because the text displayed in the Search panel is basically plain text (+ a bit required to build/order the display)
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Jonathan Huber said:
For context... in Accordance, all text windows are search windows. We do the searching right in the window and can interact with the results the same way you would in a window where you're just reading. Logos search seems to be functionally more like a Google search or something, where you find the hits and then open them to actually interact with them. Being aware of this paradigm difference might be helpful for both sides of the discussion here.
Hi Jonathan,
I think that is a great synopsis of the two systems. [:)] While it is for sure helpful to keep this distinction in mind, I would argue that how Accordance does it is more efficient for original language. ( imo [:)] ) It seems to take a few steps to do what I can do in one step in Accordance (when it comes to original language. I wish I could just right click and search the lex, but I seem to need to click the word, confirm the word, search bible, then open the text to the actual bible, Then I have a searchable lex.
Aaron Hamilton said:Mark Allison said:If I'm searching the Bible itself without going to a Search tab, how can I specify case sensitivity?
Quotation marks should do the trick.
Thank you! [:)]
Roy said:Hi Kristin,
I am actually a bit out of my depth here but maybe these screen snip-its will draw attention to what MJ was explaining to you.
That right-click pop-up context menu that you accessed from the search panel has 3 options on the left side. Choosing each will affect the options available on the right side.
Hi Roy,
Thank you for the screenshots. [:)] Ya, if I search from "Bible" it works. The issue is that I had been trying to click from the "Search" window, since that text is functional in Accordance. Now that I understand I can't do anything with the search until I send it back to Bible, now clicking works.
Jonathan Huber said:The @ symbol will trigger the dropdown menu where you can select attributes like case. eg lemma.g:πατήρ@
Thank you! For sure something I will put on a post-it note for a few days.
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MJ. Smith said:
Logos is designed for users who will poke around and see what happens as opposed to the users who want all the behaviors described in detail before they try it. Which is to say, for many the fastest way to learn Logos is to click, alt-click- right click, etc. everywhere and see what happens.
That is a good idea. A few years ago I put Linux on an old PC and I leaned the hard way that just randomly clicking on things to see what happens can produce disastrous results, and I have been more cautious of computers ever since. So it is good to keep in mind that Logos isn't so fragile. [:)]
Mark Allison said:Jonathan Huber said:The @ symbol will trigger the dropdown menu where you can select attributes like case. eg lemma.g:πατήρ@
I think that only works when you're in a search tab, but not when you're in a Bible tab. I'm trying to see how much work I can do inside a Bible tab, which would be much more similar to the way Accordance works.
it seemed to work in the Bible tab of the NA28. 🤷♀️
Mark Allison said:I'm not sure, but some of the confusion may come from whether or not you're right-clicking on a highlighted word from your search (or not). If I right-click on a highlighted word in the search tab, I get the various menu options...But if I right click on a word that's not highlighted, I only get the "Proclaim" option:
This is a very helpful distinction! I wish everything was clickable, but I am happier just seeing a logical pattern.
Mark Allison said:And it's pretty confusing when you have no idea why clicking on two words next to each other give you different results.
Amen.
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Aaron Hamilton said:MJ. Smith said:
Yes, it is the old syntax - but the Search will actually show you how to convert it to the new syntax.
Thank you. You're right; that's helpful. Now that we're talking about inline search, is there a way to jump from one result to the next/previous? Or is scrolling the results the only way to navigate?
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Accordance users will probably want to switch their fonts in the Logos preferences to the following (if they like the look of the Accordance font):
Greek: KadmosU
Hebrew: SBL HebrewHere's the difference between the Greek "default" font and KadmosU, which looks the most like the Accordance font:
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Kristin said:
but I seem to need to click the word, confirm the word, search bible, then open the text to the actual bible
I'm not sure of your precise workflow here. However, there is another pattern from the selection menu that might suit you for original language work - you select the word then have quick links to copy, search, Bible Word Study guide, and lexicon lookup. You can choose to default to the lemma rather than the manuscript form.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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MJ. Smith said:
Note to all Accordance-escapees
MJ - I laughed when I saw this. The phenomena has a name now!
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Mark Allison said:
Accordance users will probably want to switch their fonts in the Logos preferences to the following (if they like the look of the Accordance font):
Greek: KadmosU
Hebrew: SBL HebrewThis is a great tweak!
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Donovan R. Palmer said:MJ. Smith said:
Note to all Accordance-escapees
MJ - I laughed when I saw this. The phenomena has a name now!
[Y]
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