a question from an Accordance User
Comments
-
Kristin said:
The "Factbook" is another example. I have sort of gathered that it is just a quick summary of a word based on your personal resources.
It is actually more than / different to this.
https://support.logos.com/hc/en-us/articles/360016146691-Factbook provides an outline of what it provides.
0 -
Kristin- I’d highly recommend that you start going through the support options. I’ve worked through the QuickStart for Logos 10 videos (you can find this in the library) and then start working through the Logos page on features. Many of the features have a short video to explain what the feature is and how it works. You’ll get a much better feel for the program that way.
Thank you to the experienced Logos users for chiming in with pointers. This is a big UI change for us newbies.
If there’s a place to suggest webinar topics, I would love to find a video explaining how to replicate common/beloved Accordance functions in Logos. 0 -
Kristin said:
What are you referring to as "clutter" in this situation?
One person's clutter, is sometimes another person's treasure. I find a marketing slogan that says 'Skip the Clutter' rather presumptuous on what I am studying.
At least in my study use case, some would say 'out dated scholarship' is clutter. I actually find it very useful to see how others over time have translated and interpreted scripture, forming their beliefs and doctrine.
So a lot of the classic commentaries, studies and monographs in Logos are very useful to me. I have invested heavily in fathers of the church materials as well. The key to managing a large library is to tag, rate resources, create collections and become proficient in using Logos' tech and guides to mining for gold when you are studying.
Of course, for some these materials might get in the way and be their 'clutter'. I tend to use a more positive term that this is not their focus of study. That's ok. We are all different.
Logos is a swiss army knife. When you pull out your swiss army knife for a 'task', you don't pull out all of the tools. You select a few to achieve the task efficiently. So designing workflows for each task is important. I use some tools for more devotional reading, some for language and exegetical work, and some for research. It is fun to roam when you have a swiss army knife that is ready for your imagination to engage, particularly if you have a large library.
I would say that there are some limitations with some of the tools in Logos. A few personal opinions:
- tag management is really limited and with a little investment could be greatly enhanced.
- prioritisation of resources assumes you use the same priority of resources for all tools and modes of study
- monograph management is lacking compared to other types of resources
- visuals and atlas management are not as good as Accordance (albeit Accordance has not invested in this space for years)
- the tooltip popup for parsing word information is almost invisible in the way it is designed, the information panel is not a like for like replacement
- managing text in panes could use greater granular controls in size, spacing, etc to economise screen space
- liturgical tradition resources are not very well served in how some resources are leveraged
- archaeological resources could be added to and strengthened
- it would sure be nice to be able to export highlights to Readwise
With all this said, it is a very cool swiss army knife. I am really excited to see what Logos 11 brings to town.
0 -
Donovan R. Palmer said:
One person's clutter, is sometimes another person's treasure. I find a marketing slogan that says 'Skip the Clutter' rather presumptuous on what I am studying.
I'd vote for Factbook as clutter. It reminds me of our garage ... there's a couple cars in there somewhere! I have the same issue with other Bible apps that 'dump' into the kitchen sink, offering to organize my study or access.
Instead, I'm a worshipper of an excellent layout. All organized visually, always as I prefer. A lot like my sewing room.
Now, I'm only illustrating that Logos is quite flexible to peoples' preferences. You got your tag'ers. Then, you got you collection'ers. Your link'ers vs your MultiBook'ers. Initially confusing, but generally, Logos can do mostly what one wants.
I'm not a workflow'er, but I'd bet, refined per MJ, it'd be another powerhouse.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
0 -
Hi everyone,
(I edited this post since after posting, all my returns were gone. So I tried to add mores spaces). <-- it didn't work.
Responses are to Dave, Jonathan, than Donovan.I tried to do that sort of convoluted multi-quote option, but for some reason it wasn’t working right, so I will need to just respond without quotes.
Hi Dave,If you don't mind, could you clarify this "subscription"? I have heard that word before, but I don't entirely understand it. It almost sounds like people using a subscription are renting resources or something, in contrast to actually owning it. I find it concerning since I don’t like subscriptions. Yet from what you wrote, it sounds like the option to just buy it like normal is still available, is that correct?Thank you also for the Tagging link, that was helpful.Hi Graham,Thank you for the Factbook link. I will take a look at it.Hi Jonathan,Thank you for the QuickStart videos idea. To be honest, I almost found them too “quick” and not in depth. I had been looking at a few of them a few weeks ago to get certain questions answered, but as of yet they have just gone over info I already knew. When I started with Accordance I think I watched every single Dr. J video, and he was remarkably helpful. A lot of why his videos were so good is because he didn’t assume anything and walked people though things without acting like people already knew the software.Hi Donovan,Ok, thank you for clarifying what you had meant, and I agree 100% that clutter isn’t the right word. I also agree with your assessment that some resources are of higher or lower priority depending on the workflow. I know Accordance has the ability to set different saved workspaces, and it appears that Logos has that same function, which helps somewhat with this, but nonetheless seems somewhat separate from what you are referring to, I think.Donovan R. Palmer said:The key to managing a large library is to tag, rate resources
This rating system has truly confused me for a few reasons. First, a lot of the resources come already rated. Who is rating them? Second, if I rate something, does that stay on my computer, or am I contributing to some sort of community rate? Third, the concept is sort of confusing to me, as different resources would have a higher or lower rate based on what specific task I am doing.
Thank you for any clarity anyone is able to provide.0 -
DMB said:
I'm a worshipper of an excellent layout.
haha, that made me laugh.
DMB said:, I'm only illustrating that Logos is quite flexible to peoples' preferences.
Do you still use both platforms for specific tasks?
Btw, I had created this long response to everyone, but when I did, it deleted ALL my returns and made a huge text blob. So I edited it adding spaces, and it didn't work. So then I edited to mention the names of people I responded to (Dave, Jonathan, Donovan), but then it got flagged for moderation (for two edits, I guess). I had listed a few questions in my post, but I won't ask them again and will just wait for the post to appear. I wanted to mention this so everyone knows I didn't mean to ignore the comments above.
0 -
Donovan R. Palmer said:
I know Factbook has its critics,
Hi Donovan,
I had the chance to look at that link Graham provided, and the Factbook looks like it would be helpful for people who are unfamiliar with the text, or harmless for people who are familiar with it. So what are the critics saying?
Also, as mentioned, I checked out that link Graham provided, and so I went to the ESV and just searched for "Herod" like the video suggested. What I felt was really lacking was a pure list (like Accordance Concordance). Does Logos have something similar? It seems l like I need to actually scroll through the text for all the hits.
0 -
Kristin said:DMB said:
I'm a worshipper of an excellent layout.
haha, that made me laugh.
DMB said:, I'm only illustrating that Logos is quite flexible to peoples' preferences.
Do you still use both platforms for specific tasks?
Btw, I had created this long response to everyone, but when I did, it deleted ALL my returns and made a huge text blob. So I edited it adding spaces, and it didn't work. So then I edited to mention the names of people I responded to (Dave, Jonathan, Donovan), but then it got flagged for moderation (for two edits, I guess). I had listed a few questions in my post, but I won't ask them again and will just wait for the post to appear. I wanted to mention this so everyone knows I didn't mean to ignore the comments above.
So, you not a post'er??!!
Mebbe I'm not either. I tried an emoji after the above line and it wouldn't emote.
0 -
scooter said:
Mebbe I tried an emoji after the above line and it wouldn't emote.
Hi scooter,
I am frankly not very familiar with the forum at all, but my understanding is that if you make a smile with your keyboard, it will just be the text version, and for an emoji you need to click the emoji button above, or use brackets around it, but clicking the emoji is simpler, I think. Here is my test:
[:)]
0 -
Kristin said:
Do you still use both platforms for specific tasks?
Actually, I have my own Bible software, and then use Logos and Accordance as my 'research assistants'. My own is highly adapted to analytics and my own 'theology' (as most have their own beliefs).
Accordance currently does most graphics. Timelines, maps, etc Also, I love offline access to manuscripts and inscriptions. Then, Accordance still has some unique OL modules (hebrew, syriac, and a little greek). Even though I have lot of duplication between Logos and Accordance (mainly from BW), Logos does the heavy lifting on the big library searches.
Regarding your frustration with the forum software, you're just experiencing old software ... I have the same frustrations.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
0 -
DMB said:
Actually, I have my own Bible software, and then use Logos and Accordance as my 'research assistants'. My own is highly adapted to analytics and my own 'theology' (as most have their own beliefs).
That is intense that you have your own software! That's very impressive! The way you use your software, Accordance, and Logos, sounds sort of complicated, but it sounds like you have really maximized the advantages of all of them.
DMB said:Regarding your frustration with the forum software, you're just experiencing old software ... I have the same frustrations.
Thank you for letting me know.
0 -
It is good to see Rick, Jonathan, and Mark again. Hello old friends!
0 -
Randall Cue said:
It is good to see Rick, Jonathan, and Mark again. Hello old friends!
🤗 The gang's all here (or may be soon).
Senior Publisher Relations Specialist • Logos Bible Software • Rick.Mansfield@logos.com
0 -
Rick Mansfield said:Randall Cue said:
It is good to see Rick, Jonathan, and Mark again. Hello old friends!
🤗 The gang's all here (or may be soon).
If Nate behaves we might just welcome him here when Accordance’s ship sinks! 😂 Irony of ironies — Accordance sent me an email years ago offering a cross over special since Logos’s ship was sinking. They later on (couple of hours after sending the email) apologized for sending the email and said it was a marketing mistake.
I definitely wish them well, but the new owner needs to get his head out of the water and realize his strategy, whatever it is, needs to change! Banning and pushing customers away is not the way to keep a business afloat!
DAL
0 -
0
-
Rick Mansfield said:
🤗 The gang's all here (or may be soon).
Oh, I'm here, not just testing the waters. Can't say yet what the workflow will look like going forward, but Logos will be a part of it.
Hi, Randall!
0 -
Kristin said:
I checked out that link Graham provided, and so I went to the ESV and just searched for "Herod" like the video suggested. What I felt was really lacking was a pure list (like Accordance Concordance). Does Logos have something similar?
Some more explanation would help. How did you "search" for Herod? What is a pure list?
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
0 -
Dave Hooton said:
Some more explanation would help. How did you "search" for Herod? What is a pure list?
Hi Dave,
I had watched that "Factbook" video, and in their example they searched for "Herod" so I decided to try the same search to see what I could learn about the Factbook. In doing so, I found that with Accordance there was a simple, clear list I could see with all the hits, whereas with Logos my only option seemed to be to literally scroll through the text looking for the 40 hits. Is there a way for Logos to look more like Accordance in this regard?
Also, do you, or anyone, have any clarity about how Logos is connected to Logos online? I understand it needs to connect to the server to check for updates, but is that all it's doing? It is making me nervous how often that little wheel spins. I will attach a picture with these issues.
Thanks.
0 -
It is so encouraging to see so many Accordance users that I followed in their forums and I learned so much from over the past three years migrating here to the Logos forums. It's like family members coming home! I highly recommend checking out MP seminars for learning Logos's software. Lots of great training videos that has helped me over the past year to get more confident doing so many neat searches in the original languages and all of the datasets that Accordance can't compete with. Worth checking out!
0 -
Kristin said:
I found that with Accordance there was a simple, clear list I could see with all the hits
Kristin,
There might be a way to get you closer to the Accordance list view, but this might help. Turn off the options that you see in this screenshot:
0 -
Mark Allison said:
There might be a way to get you closer to the Accordance list view, but this might help. Turn off the options that you see in this screenshot:
Hi Mark,
Thank you for the screenshot. So if I understand correctly, setting it like that makes the text cleaner, but there isn't a true "concordance" list like Accordance has. Is that correct?
0 -
Is this what you are looking for Kristin?
0 -
Kristin said:
Thank you for the screenshot. So if I understand correctly, setting it like that makes the text cleaner, but there isn't a true "concordance" list like Accordance has. Is that correct?
Thanks for the tip @ReformedDoc! I'm learning something too :-)
So Kristin, here's what you do. Open your Bible text (for me it was the CSB). Then go to Tools—>Concordance. It's going to take a long time to generate the initial concordance, but it's really fast after that. Then, press Command-F to bring up the search box. Search for "Herod." It'll give you the following list:
0 -
Kristin said:
Thank you for the screenshot. So if I understand correctly, setting it like that makes the text cleaner, but there isn't a true "concordance" list like Accordance has. Is that correct?
Mark provided a helpful answer. However, usually for my purposes a Bible search proves more helpful than the concordance tool and will give you a list of passages as well. Factbook really isn't designed to function as a concordance.
0 -
Aaron Hamilton said:
usually for my purposes a Bible search proves more helpful than the concordance tool and will give you a list of passages as well.
Nice! I really don't know anything about Logos, so I'm enjoying learning from others as I go :-)
0 -
And the advantage to performing a Bible search is that you can add versions.
0 -
Mark Allison said:
Then go to Tools—>Concordance. It's going to take a long time to generate the initial concordance, but it's really fast after that. Then, press Command-F to bring up the search box. Search for "Herod."
Thank you for the link ReformedDoc, and thank you for the screenshot, Mark!
A couple of things. First, I think this is actually a good example of what I mean how the quick videos haven't worked for me. I tried to follow the video's instruction, but there were two issues. First, the video uses an example of a resource people may, or may not, have, making it difficult to follow as a pattern. Second, in lieu of the resource she used, I decided to search my ESV, but there is literally no way to search for anything, and "command F" is not even mentioned.
Second, while Mark provided far more info than the video, there is still no way to search and command F does nothing. I can open a Bible, so I opened the ESV and searched "Herod," but that provided literally the same results as not using the concordance, as the ESV is just another resource and nothing was actually searched for with the concordance.Also, from Aaron's and Mark's screenshot, it seems like it really is done though the "Bible" tab, so I am not sure what I am missing.
0 -
Kristin said:
from Aaron's and Mark's screenshot, it seems like it really is done though the "Bible" tab, so I am not sure what I am missing.
No worries; it takes some getting used to. However, with your level of interest you'll be an expert in no time. Perhaps you should hit the arrow in the bottom left corner of the screen to expand the left menu. Having words to describe the icons may be easier until you are more familiar with the software. The easiest way to do a search is by utilizing the search tool. I have highlighted this tool in the screenshot below.
0 -
Try searching directly in a Bible tab. Open the inline search (Cmd + Shift + F), do your search, and then share the results (via the button that looks like an up arrow over a wide U) to a passage document. The whole process is pretty quick and gives you a list similar to a concordance.
0 -
Kristin said:
Also, do you, or anyone, have any clarity about how Logos is connected to Logos online? I understand it needs to connect to the server to check for updates, but is that all it's doing? It is making me nervous how often that little wheel spins.
It is synchronising your user documents with the backup on the Server (and vice-versa if you have multiple installations) as well as checking for resource and software updates.
Logos will also send feedback on your use of the software. You can go to Tools > Program Settings and chose an option from "Send Feedback".
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
0 -
Aaron Hamilton said:
No worries; it takes some getting used to. However, with your level of interest you'll be an expert in no time. Perhaps you should hit the arrow in the bottom left corner of the screen to expand the left menu.
Hi Aaron,
Thank you for your screenshot.
I had been looking for a search button on the actual concordance window and had seen that panel as disconnected from it. I just tried it like your screenshot and it worked. Jonathan Huber said:Try searching directly in a Bible tab. Open the inline search (Cmd + Shift + F), do your search, and then share the results (via the button that looks like an up arrow over a wide U) to a passage document. The whole process is pretty quick and gives you a list similar to a concordance.
Thank you for the idea, Jonathan. The more I play around with Logos, the more I feel like it really isn't Accordance, and there are certain things about Accordance I just like (like the layout of the Accordance concordance). However, I can see that Logos also has it's strengths, and which version of concordance someone finds better would be dependent on their specific workflow.
1 -
Dave Hooton said:
It is synchronising your user documents with the backup on the Server
Hi Dave,
Do you mind clarifying what you mea by "user documents"?
Also, looking at the Program Settings, right next to it was something about user ratings, which reminded me about a question I had asked in that post that got quarantined. So I guess I'll ask it here. The rating system has truly confused me for a few reasons. First, a lot of the resources come already rated. Who is rating them? If I rate something, does that stay on my computer, or am I contributing to some sort of community rate? Also, the concept is sort of confusing to me, as different resources would have a higher or lower rating based on what specific task I am doing.
Thanks for any clarity you are able to provide.0 -
Kristin said:
. Second, in lieu of the resource she used, I decided to search my ESV, but there is literally no way to search for anything, and "command F" is not even mentioned.
You do not have the Concordance tool if using the Free version, so the screenshot is a Help screen. You have to scroll to find words in this tool, but the results are in list format. A Bible Search, however will allow you to save the results in a Passage List.
CTRL+F (Windows) is a basic text Search available to any book. Type in the box and it will highlight the result in the book without any formatting.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
0 -
Kristin said:
Do you mind clarifying what you mea by "user documents"?
These are created via the Documents menu in the app toolbar (top or left side) when you select New.
Kristin said:Also, looking at the Program Settings, right next to it was something about user ratings, which reminded me about a question I had asked in that post that got quarantined. So I guess I'll ask it here. The rating system has truly confused me for a few reasons. First, a lot of the resources come already rated. Who is rating them? If I rate something, does that stay on my computer,
Books can be rated on the product page. But they come to you as unrated (check the Rating column in Library), and you can rate/use them as described in this wiki article. This data is sync'd to the server and Show Community Ratings = Yes (in Settings) will show the average value from all users on hover in the book's Information page.
I suggest you use the TOC Wiki article to get information/Help for all features in the Logos app.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
0 -
Aaron Hamilton said:
No worries; it takes some getting used to. However, with your level of interest you'll be an expert in no time. Perhaps you should hit the arrow in the bottom left corner of the screen to expand the left menu. Having words to describe the icons may be easier until you are more familiar with the software. The easiest way to do a search is by utilizing the search tool. I have highlighted this tool in the screenshot below.
Logos is a very powerful Swiss Army knife. I have used it since Series X and I still learn new things about it all the time. Just last week I was watching a video clip on building a Morphological search and I discovered something I had never known before. It is a lot of fun if you like roaming around in original languages and research! 😎
1 -
Dave Hooton said:
I suggest you use the TOC Wiki article to get information/Help for all features in the Logos app.
Hi Dave,
Thank you for the clarification you provided in the last few posts, and also for this TOC article link. I will be sure to take a look at it. [:)]
Donovan R. Palmer said:It is a lot of fun if you like roaming around in original languages and research! 😎
Original languages and research are my favorite things!! [:)]
1 -
Mark Allison said:
And the advantage to performing a Bible search is that you can add versions.
In the Logos world Bible search in effect makes the concept of a concordance obsolete. In Mark’s search above you can view analysis and export your passage lists. I am not a big user of the Logos ‘concordance tool’ but others on here have use cases which make it more suitable for them.
Another thing that is sort of obsolete is Strong’s numbers. You can still use and search on them, but the tagging in Logos is more powerful.
If you enjoy experimenting and ideating ways to use the tools to engage the text, it can create hours of entertainment for sure!
0 -
Mark Allison said:
And the advantage to performing a Bible search is that you can add versions.
Mark,
How did you do this? I understand how to add another version, and also how to link, but not how to get the search in both. Did you run the search twice to get it on each version?
0 -
Donovan R. Palmer said:
Another thing that is sort of obsolete is Strong’s numbers. You can still use and search on them, but the tagging in Logos is more powerful.
That is a weird thought. Somewhat of a mindwarp.
0 -
Kristin, are you using the free version, or did you purchase a feature set (if so, which version did you purchase?)? Your Logos experience will vary greatly depending on which features you have access to. Searching in multiple Bible versions is available to me within the search tool, using the Bible search. This may not be possible in the free version.
0 -
Aaron Hamilton said:
Kristin, are you using the free version, or did you purchase a feature set (if so, which version did you purchase?)? Your Logos experience will vary greatly depending on which features you have access to. Searching in multiple Bible versions is available to me within the search tool, using the Bible search. This may not be possible in the free version.
Hi Aaron,
I am still messing around in the free version. Though I don't think I will ever be able to get a true impression of Logos one way or the other until I buy original languages, I want to try to get a better grip of the software before I do anything further.
That said, apparently it is available in the free version. I'm just not used to the "search" function, as it is significantly different from Accordance. However, once I opened it I found the option to search "all open bibles," and it in fact did find the word I searched for in all the Bible versions I had open. So that was interesting. Thank you for explaining that.
Aaron Hamilton said:Your Logos experience will vary greatly depending on which features you have access to.
Someone explained this to me before, but I am still a little confused. The "features" are dependent on the level of the package, is that correct? So using the "Academic" package as an example, how many features you have would be dependent on if you have the "silver" or "bronze," or whatever. Is that correct, or are the features referring to something else?
0 -
Kristin said:
So using the "Academic" package as an example, how many features you have would be dependent on if you have the "silver" or "bronze," or whatever. Is that correct, or are the features referring to something else?
That is correct - you might find the information at https://www.logos.com/compare/featuresets/Logos%20Feature%20Sets helpful as it shows which features are available in which feature set.
0 -
Kristin said:
How did you do this?
I just clicked on the "Add versions" button. But as has been mentioned, perhaps that's not available in the free version. Accordance has limitations in its free version too.
0 -
Perhaps my favorite search view is the "Grid" view. Check this out!
0 -
Dave Hooton said:
Apart from the Academic 30%, there will be discounts on Logos 10 packages near Fall, in anticipation of the new subscription "official" release (probably higher than 25%). So take advantage of Academic discounts if that appeals, and then wait if you value ownership.
I own some books, but have just figured out my path into getting my Logos updated. I plan on buying Feature sets so I don't end up with a bunch of books I don't need. It is like buying the program without all the fluff of books I don't want or will not use. And then buying the books specifically I want, and will use. Only took me a couple of weeks to figure that out. [:)]
Dave, This is exactly my question and concern... buy before the Logos 11 release in the fall, or after? My understanding is Logos 11 is tentatively supposed to release October 2024. I have been bit by that in other things. I ignorantly bought before a release, only to find I was holding an old product, and had to give more money for what had just been released. In this case it was hardware, not software, but I'm sure I have had the same experience with software in the past too.
0 -
Dave Hooton said:
Apart from the Academic 30%, there will be discounts on Logos 10 packages near Fall, in anticipation of the new subscription "official" release (probably higher than 25%). So take advantage of Academic discounts if that appeals, and then wait if you value ownership.
Do you mind clarifying the "value ownership" comment? It sounds like if you buy it in the fall, the official release is just a subscription (like renting the program) and not actually owning it. Then if you wait a certain amount of time you can buy it without a subscription, but you forfeit the discount?
0 -
Mark Allison said:
just clicked on the "Add versions" button. But as has been mentioned, perhaps that's not available in the free version. Accordance has limitations in its free version too.
Hi Mark,
Oh, ok. Thank you for clarifying. Ya, you are correct that that button is missing in the free version. I don't blame Logos at all for limiting features in the free version, but at the same time, for someone using the free version in order to judge functionality and if it would be worth investing anything, it sort of obscures the results. Also, to be clear, if I bought anything, even if I bought one book, would it unlock (or more accurately, show), all the features? I am thinking not, as I keep hearing about gradients in features, which are based on silver, bronze, etc. I think.
0 -
Mark Allison said:
Perhaps my favorite search view is the "Grid" view. Check this out!
I like the grid too! Thanks for the screenshot, as you are correct it obviously isn't in the free version.
0 -
Mark Allison said:
Perhaps my favorite search view is the "Grid" view. Check this out!
I like the grid too! Thanks for the screenshot, as you are correct it obviously isn't in the free version.
0
