Official: More details about the coming subscription launch
Comments
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Frank,
All valid concerns, but at least for the next several months you some flexibility. I don't think the price of 1 year represents much risk, but month to month, or simply waiting until the end of the year are all viable options.
I thought that was a smart move for the user that didn't see anything yet, but with Mark's input on the Fallback schedule, that is now in question... Sticking the Fallback to a October release cycle will be confusion for users that come in later....
As for the sticking with what you have because of OS updates, that could be an option - as someone who regularly upgraded, it would be disappointing and I am concerned about the new toolbar eventually being forced on the non-subscriber as well. That alone at this time would deter me from subscribing. What I am seeing reported by fellow long time users with that feature thus far is concerning. Might be nice for some, but extra clicks and the such leading to less efficient workflows is not an improvement IMHO. Hopefully they will reconsider the toolbar choice, since the Traditional is being maintained for the nonsubscriber.
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 15 & Android 14
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I just find it confusing why someone would have no problem paying hundreds of $$ for an upgrade every two years, but completely rebels at the thought of paying $12/month for those same features—features that they'll be able to use during that two-year period and own at the end of it!No need to be confused, Mark. Your argument(s) assume one previously wanted and bought the features. I didn't, for about 6 years. In 2024 subscription terms I saved $600 (I had FF before that, so using the discounted subscribe rate).
The basic problem, is that Logos features aren't all that good, unless you like 'Factbook' or sermons assistance. They're overly complicated, and not well thought out. And unfortunately, the new book-level menu will be a disaster for my layout, so a big plus, just eating popcorn, and enjoying Logos10.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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No need to be confused, Mark. Your argument(s) assume one previously wanted and bought the features.
So what's to stop you from waiting 6 years before you see features you like, and then paying the subscription fee?
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No need to be confused, Mark. Your argument(s) assume one previously wanted and bought the features.
So what's to stop you from waiting 6 years before you see features you like, and then paying the subscription fee?
For me, it's the lack of assurance that the Legacy Fallback License will still be in force in 6 years. As I understand it, go forward, that's the ONLY way to end up "owning" new features that are introduced; if a decision were made to no longer support it, even that "2-year rent-to-own" option would be gone, and you would then be forced to maintain a subscription or lose features, ending up back to wherever you last "locked in" ownership. [:(]
Ahh well, all software (like all flesh) is as grass in the end ...
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No need to be confused, Mark. Your argument(s) assume one previously wanted and bought the features.
So what's to stop you from waiting 6 years before you see features you like, and then paying the subscription fee?
Absolutely nothing!
Of course, in the meantime, I'll be spending my dinero on books (typically the Big A due to doctrinal limitations at Logos, cheaper, and, well, I like my Scribe). The point being ... no desire to subscribe for pie in the sky. And ... I could alternatively go walking, and drop a ten dollar bill on the ground each month ... make someone happy!
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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due to doctrinal limitations at Logos
Just curious what those doctrinal limitations are? Being new to Logos, I don't have the background to know about these sort of things.
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Just curious what those doctrinal limitations are? Being new to Logos, I don't have the background to know about these sort of things.
Not to violate the forum coffeetable, but I'm a literalist, meaning skip the add-on doctrines, study what was there originally, and view the sources as judgable witnesses. Logos largely begins in the late 2nd century (assumptions).
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Just curious about a question that keeps coming to mind, does Microsoft communicate the features of Office 365 subscription that will be coming out in the next 2 years? Does Quicken? Dropbox? Adobe in any of their products? Evernote?
Wait a minute, *SOMEONE* must publish all the software features they intend to put out over the next 2 years so customers can make informed decisions about subscribing? That's easy to do, right? If they can do it why can't Logos?
</tongue-in-cheek>
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Just curious about a question that keeps coming to mind ....
</tongue-in-cheek>
Better keep that tongue in cheek. I think the issue (illustrated by current pie-the-sky plans), is the lost ability to see before you buy (essentially, buying what has been produced, past-tense). Faithlife is adament ... absolutely not (so far). Ergo the need for cheek-tonguing.
But I am impressed by the months of heavy-lifting just to subscribe. That must be some investment.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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I think the issue (illustrated by current pie-the-sky plans), is the lost ability to see before you buy
How is Logos not allowing you to "see before you buy"? You can literally see every feature Logos offers before you decide to subscribe.
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I think the issue (illustrated by current pie-the-sky plans), is the lost ability to see before you buy
"See before you buy" has never been part of subscription plans, that's my point, Me thinks the community is too hard on Logos on this one. An argument to see before you buy on a subscription plan is non-sensical and on-existent in the real world.
Why the community expects Logos to be the first ever to commit to features to be delivered over a two year period makes no sense to me. Did anyone see an AI-based search synopsis 2 years ago? From what I could see, the term "AI" didn't even show up in the forums ever until 2023. If a software company was forced to commit to a features list 2 years in advance, it would be such baby sets of improvements no one would buy it. Oh - and you couldn't even run the AI-based features already out on a Mac prior to 2022.
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How is Logos not allowing you to "see before you buy"? You can literally see every feature Logos offers before you decide to subscribe.
You carefully switched verbs. I think Frank is asking which he can subscribe/buy/keep ... a list not that hard for Mark to produce. I'd also assume such a list would need updating with each new 'feature', given the 24-35 month 'clock'.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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I think Frank is asking which he can subscribe/buy/keep ... a list not that hard for Mark to produce. I'd also assume such a list would need updating with each new 'feature', given the 24-35 month 'clock
It's possible decisions have not yet been made for every feature. Some of the waiting might be because of the need to clarify exactly where they draw the line for what will and will not be included in the Fallback License. I think it's a hard 24 month clock. It's just a matter of what license you receive after 24 months. It could as I understand it be up to 11 months and 30 days old if cancelled at the worst possible time.
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Just curious about a question that keeps coming to mind, does Microsoft communicate the features of Office 365 subscription that will be coming out in the next 2 years? Does Quicken? Dropbox? Adobe in any of their products? Evernote?
Wait a minute, *SOMEONE* must publish all the software features they intend to put out over the next 2 years so customers can make informed decisions about subscribing? That's easy to do, right? If they can do it why can't Logos?
</tongue-in-cheek>
Not tongue in cheek - I am tired of ignorant posts that consistently misrepresent what I have clearly stated and clarified over again - some people are just too ignorant to read what I posted and clarified....
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 15 & Android 14
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I think the issue (illustrated by current pie-the-sky plans), is the lost ability to see before you buy
"See before you buy" has never been part of subscription plans, that's my point, Me thinks the community is too hard on Logos on this one. An argument to see before you buy on a subscription plan is non-sensical and on-existent in the real world.
Why the community expects Logos to be the first ever to commit to features to be delivered over a two year period makes no sense to me. Did anyone see an AI-based search synopsis 2 years ago? From what I could see, the term "AI" didn't even show up in the forums ever until 2023. If a software company was forced to commit to a features list 2 years in advance, it would be such baby sets of improvements no one would buy it. Oh - and you couldn't even run the AI-based features already out on a Mac prior to 2022.
Again another ignorant misrepresentation!!! A comparison clearly stating a lost benefit of losing the traditional purchase option vs the new subscription option is not expecting Logos to know everything that will be included two years from October launch.....The non-sensical is ignorant forum users like yourself misrepresenting others and then calling said misrepresented view non-sensical - which even if said view was actually a user's view should not be insulted with such statements.... Forum guidelines anyone..... Add non-sensical to griping, whining, childish and the classic Satinic/Satanic insults directed toward those who dare share a contrary view....
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 15 & Android 14
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How is Logos not allowing you to "see before you buy"? You can literally see every feature Logos offers before you decide to subscribe.
You carefully switched verbs. I think Frank is asking which he can subscribe/buy/keep ... a list not that hard for Mark to produce. I'd also assume such a list would need updating with each new 'feature', given the 24-35 month 'clock'.
Some people just love to misrepresent no matter how clear another makes the point.....But DMB, you know that when we dare disagree with Logos or question anything - that is what it comes down to and not so much as a peep from the supposed MVP crew - yet they confront other stuff...
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 15 & Android 14
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I think Frank is asking which he can subscribe/buy/keep ... a list not that hard for Mark to produce. I'd also assume such a list would need updating with each new 'feature', given the 24-35 month 'clock
It's possible decisions have not yet been made for every feature. Some of the waiting might be because of the need to clarify exactly where they draw the line for what will and will not be included in the Fallback License. I think it's a hard 24 month clock. It's just a matter of what license you receive after 24 months. It could as I understand it be up to 11 months and 30 days old if cancelled at the worst possible time.
And this is why I responded to your other post about the trusted source mentioning that they may extend the Last Chance Sale - it would be a very smart thing to do, considering they were not prepared with these answers....
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 15 & Android 14
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The ability to report abusive posts is provided under the more option.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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The non-sensical is ignorant forum users like yourself
Wow, you don't play around do you? Instead of giving someone the benefit of the doubt, you just go for the ad hominem attack. If this was an Accordance forum, you'd have already been blocked.
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I think Frank is asking which he can subscribe/buy/keep ... a list not that hard for Mark to produce. I'd also assume such a list would need updating with each new 'feature', given the 24-35 month 'clock
It's possible decisions have not yet been made for every feature. Some of the waiting might be because of the need to clarify exactly where they draw the line for what will and will not be included in the Fallback License. I think it's a hard 24 month clock. It's just a matter of what license you receive after 24 months. It could as I understand it be up to 11 months and 30 days old if cancelled at the worst possible time.
Just discussing, Aaron. But as I understand it (?) the clock is 24 months as you say. But the ownership awarding is each October (calculation). Therefore, let's say you subscribe-start at the day after 'fall' (just joking Dec 22 2024). Logos checks ownership at Oct 2025 (nobody), and October 2026 (many). At the 2026 checkup, you don't qualify.
Now, here's my understanding? You won't get your actual license until Oct 2027. If you stop subscribing, and even have your 24 months, you lose (for up to 10 months) access to 'your' feature. Seems?
That's why I said 24-35 months.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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THAT explains so much frustration I've had since my beginning, back in 2009! (The transitional L3 to L4 period. [8o|]
Private equity investors are not "people". They are investors who are looking for max returns. Private equity investors are not Christians, who are called to reflect the character of God in word and deed. If the CEO doesn't achieve the objective set out by the private equity investors, he will be fired.0 -
It is my understanding from what Logos has said thus far that if I subscribe and keep my subscription for the 24-months, I will earn the fallback license even if I decide to end my subscription after earning it. So, if I start in October 2024 and keep it until October 2026 when I officially earn my fallback, I can drop it anytime after if I so desired. If I start theoretically in December of 2024 instead, I would not earn my fallback until 2026 and would earn whatever the released non-AI and non-cloud features were in October 2026 and could then cancel thereafter if needed or wanted.
So, I think the key is a hard two year cycle every two years in October, but the eligibility for the fallback will just mean 24 consecutive months subscribed and then you get whatever the previous 2 year feature marker was.
Of course, that does not answer all the questions either :-). More info will definitely be needed.
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It is my understanding from what Logos has said thus far that if I subscribe and keep my subscription for the 24-months, I will earn the fallback license even if I decide to end my subscription after earning it.
Steven, no offense, but if you DO stop subscribing (let's say Jan 2027, and your 24 months is earned), you will lose access until Oct 2027 (when you get your license). You must keep paying, even with 24 months paid. Appears.
That's the other issue I think Frank is hinting at.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Now, here's my understanding? You won't get your actual license until Oct 2027. If you stop subscribing, and even have your 24 months, you lose (for up to 10 months) access to 'your' feature. Seems?
Confusing for sure. So my understanding is that on Dec. 22 2026 you would earn the Oct. 2026 license. Then, assuming it is updated annually, an updated license would be awarded each following October. If you cancel on Sep. 30th, you're out of luck. My understanding is that every month new licenses will be issued,not only in October. Could be wrong? Or maybe misunderstood something. If so, apologies.
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THAT explains so much frustration I've had since my beginning, back in 2009! (The transitional L3 to L4 period.
Batman, nothing happened at L3 to L4 ... same owners (Rosie can clarify). Now, I agree, killing Libby wasn't very nice (smiling).
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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For what it's worth, I went back and dug this up. It's a little more info anyway :-) I hope this is still true and I definitely don't have all the answers.
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Or maybe misunderstood something. If so, apologies.
In the example, since Mark doesn't check your ownership until Oct 2027, if you stop subscribing after Dec 2026 (owned), you lose access to your owned feature ... until Oct 2027. The issue?
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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since Mark doesn't check your ownership until Oct 2027
I think this bit is the issue. I think after 24 months it will trigger an automatic issuance of the License. I don't think they only check in Oct.
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I can see this happening. If I were to drop before the to-year upgrade fallback was issued, it does seem I would revert back to the last "October Feature Update" until the next official release.
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I don't think they only check in Oct.
That was what Frank was concerned about ... Mark (I think) said too complex except each October.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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