Perhaps The Only One Who Feels This Way, BUT
I am concerned the move to a subscription product may be a threat to the long-term future of Logos.
I have been a Logos customer for decades, and I have never felt this way about Logos' future before. But I doubt that the Logos subscription model will attract sufficient customers to make it practical in the long term.
I suspect the loss of those who are not willing to pay a monthly fee will limit the quality of resources that are published in the future.
"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley
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Those who do not want to pay a monthly fee for features can still buy books, so I guess I don't see how it will affect the quality of the resources that will be published.
Using Logos as a pastor, seminary professor, and Tyndale author
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I'm not concerned the subscription model will endanger the company. It reduces the customer entry cost, takes advantage of religious-pathing (colleges) and is very amenable to group licensing (churches). Plus, FL has always been happy to pull the plug if a problem.
But, I agree, I perceive a lighter emphasis on publisher books requiring tagging, and retained emphasis in higher profit in-house publishing.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Mike Childs said:
I suspect the loss of those who are not willing to pay a monthly fee will limit the quality of resources that are published in the future.
I have the opposite outlook Mike.
Lots of Logos resources were produced on the basis that there were enough sales to make them viable for the company to produce. That is many resources were independently self funding at release and extra sales, over the years, were an income bonus. I don't see this changing substantially.
I predict that the vast majority of naysayers will find that they actually need Logos to work, that the difference between the subscription fee and what they were paying for features is immaterial, and that the deal actually turns out to be quite a good one.
The hoo-har about keeping features will most likely not matter as Christians will still be studying the Word right up to the time they move into a hospice, by which time they won't remember that they had features in the first place.
tootle pip
Mike
Now tagging post-apocalyptic fiction as current affairs. Latest Logos, MacOS, iOS and iPadOS
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Justin, I hear your point.
However, the problem is continually attracting new customers to replace old guys like me. About 1991, I accepted a great offer to replace my old Bible software (CDWORD) with Logos. Had that been an offer for a subscription, I would have not even considered it. My Pastor's Salary was low, and the last thing I wanted was another monthly bill.
I suspect that is true for most seminary students. It is my opinion that the very idea of a monthly subscription will drive away a significant number of new customers.
I have introduced many young pastors over the decades to Logos. However, I would not in good conscience recommend that any young pastor take on another monthly payment.
Just my opinion for what it is worth. At this point in my life, it will not impact me. But I question the wisdom of this model for Logos' future.
I understand that my opinion is only my opinion.
"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley0 -
Hi Mike Childs,
I appreciate your position and hope by offering a different opinion you do not feel I am in someway offending you or taking your off topic.
My kids have been renting (subscribing) to music, books, movies etc. for most of their life. They are in their 30s. Subscriptions offer a few benefits to students: you can lease for the term of your study if you want; the seminary may be able to structure a deal with Logos to provide a subscription included in the tuition. If the student wants to continue they can. The books they need may not included in the subscription, but with the free version of Logos can still be read and used if they discontinue the subscription. I think point of entry for a monthly fee is easier than coming up with a larger sum to purchase the software. Worst case if you keep it active 2 years, it is about the same as purchasing.
Younger people are digital and used to leasing their content... i.e. music, movies and books.
I think the move is a positive one and that Logos has tried to maintain their model and try and accommodate its current user base. I think most will try the subscription if for nothing else to be able to purchase the discounted libraries.
Thanks for sharing.
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Justin Gatlin said:
Those who do not want to pay a monthly fee for features can still buy books, so I guess I don't see how it will affect the quality of the resources that will be published.
Yes they can. But given that the books are available cheaper on other platforms, are they going to be as likely to buy into Logos, given that they will have to "rent" the software to view them in the future? (Yes I know the base version is free, no need to inform me of that). But the premium cost of buying an individual book in Logos was originally offset in the past by the promise of free software forever. At some point, the software continued to be free, but additional features were extra cost. But in the future, additional features cannot be purchased at all.
If I were new to the Bible software market, I would be avoiding subscriptions and purchasing from companies that still honor the old system. As long as those companies are still in business.
I think I do understand why Logos thinks it needs to do this. I do not have any firsthand experience with them, but there are quite a number of Bible study websites. These keep growing in sophistication and available resources. And being websites, they are all subscription based in one way or another. I believe this is what Logos sees (at least in part) as their future competition. And it makes sense to use the Logos web app, which is already very good, to take on this competition head-on. It just makes me sad that they are ruining the desktop program by adding yet more web dependent features, rather than improving its capabilities as a stand-alone program.
I see the Logos move into subscription as a transition to the future. In doing this, they have broken their agreement with long-time loyal customers. They have placated many of the complaints by offering a nice discount on the subscription. But I still think it is unethical to charge a subscription fee which is at least in part to license 400+ resources which I have already purchased.
The big gamble for Logos is whether they will attract new customers in the future that will invest $$$$$ tens of thousands $$$$$ in a library, knowing that they will be on the hook to rent the program to use those resources forever. I personally would never purchase high dollar resources if I could rent them and stop paying during times that I was not making as much use of them.
The Bible websites eventually will all have AI features. But none of them have a full featured desktop program that does everything Logos does. But most people new to the market will subscribe to those websites, because they will be cheaper.
Another thought I had recently, which i wonder if anyone at Logos has thought of ... I know about the move to subscription because I read the forums regularly. But I do not get any email from Logos. I am thinking that if I did not check the forums regularly, that I could have easily missed the deadline to get full feature set, or to sign up for subscription. How many existing Logos customers do not even know about these deadlines? They are likely to be very upset later on when they find out they have permanently missed the boat to upgrade to FFS or to get the discount on subscription. Am I missing something here? Maybe its just my own settings that keep me from getting Logos marketing emails ...
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I think it's a good and necessary move for the viability of Logos.
Subscription relationships are totally accepted in the rest of the software and services world outside of Logos. Add on that the "cord cutting" universe, where you pay by the month, this is what especially the under 35 audience is used to and prefers. Sign up for free for 'x' days, then buy for $10 a month - a small expenditure, easy to stop if they don't like it. Big software companies do not, little ones do it, many apps on Apple and Android store do it. News sources, games, productivity software, direct-to-consumer apps for sports teams, you name it - it's all subscription-based.
IMHO the forum audience is largely an older audience steeped in a long-standing Logos relationship. If Logos wants to attract new (especially younger) customers, and they think they have the product to maintain their interest, then subscription is the way to go.
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If you don't believe me, some of the TONS of articles on the wave of subscription...
Why the future of media is subscription based (Forbes)
https://www.forbes.com/sites/falonfatemi/2023/12/13/why-the-future-of-media-is-subscription-based/Why every business will soon be a subscription business (Stanford Business)
https://www.gsb.stanford.edu/insights/why-every-business-will-soon-be-subscription-businessWhy is everything subscription now?
https://www.howtogeek.com/817963/why-is-everything-a-subscription-now/The future has a subscription fee: how technology is changing what we own
https://www.techradar.com/news/the-future-has-a-subscription-fee-how-technology-is-changing-what-we-own2024 is the year of the Subscription Business model
https://www.racknap.com/blog/subscription-business-models-explained/Why All Brands Must Consider Subscription Models (Forbes)
https://www.forbes.com/sites/bernardmarr/2022/05/12/everything-as-a-service-why-all-brands-must-consider-subscription-models/The Rise of Subscription-Based Business Models
https://blog.emb.global/subscription-based-business-model/And...
Must-Know Subscription Economy Statistics in 2024
- The Subscription Economy Is Set to Grow to $1.5 Trillion by 2025
- Subscription Businesses Have Grown 4.6x Faster Than the S&P 500
- The Average Monthly Spend on Subscriptions Is $273
- Millennials Lead the Way With 17 Entertainment Subscriptions
- Free Trials Convert 61.7% of Users
- 80% of Consumers Are More Likely to Subscribe if They Can Cancel Online
- Incentives Reduced Cancellation by 32%
https://sellcoursesonline.com/subscription-economy-statistics
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Justin Gatlin said:
Those who do not want to pay a monthly fee for features can still buy books, so I guess I don't see how it will affect the quality of the resources that will be published.
This is only partially true. Non subscription can purchase legacy libraries but the new libraries coming are only for subscription.
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Mike Childs said:
I question the wisdom of this model for Logos' future.
The new private equity investors must believe that the subscription model is the way to maximize long-run profits. Otherwise, they wouldn't have changed their strategy. The beauty of capitalism is that, as customers, we can sit back and relax. If the model is not performing as per their expectation, they will have to either (i) go back to the old model or (ii) offer a hybrid model where customers will be given a choice of subscription or 1-time purchase of features or (iii) subscription only for AI and cloud features, but everything else available for 1-time purchase.
Nobody needs to fret!
I believe in a Win-Win-Win God.
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I'm in the camp of "not thrilled with subscriptions but have signed up to stay current." I'm not thrilled about subscriptions, but neither am I worried about them. The thing is, if subscription doesn't work out for Logos, they can always (and will) drop and go back to the old way. It's not like they haven't changed before:
Logos Now-->Faithlife Connect-->Logos Pro-->who knows?
So AI subscription service is the current thing of the now, but who knows what it will be after a couple years?
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Remember Evernote. But Logos isn’t Evernote. Logos will continue. But many will despise subscription. But do it. Many won’t. Logos will go on. My kids have all said they love Logos but not the subscription. They don’t have any subscriptions except Office 360. All are in ministry of some kind. All have stated casually they won’t buy anymore Logos. Maybe they will. But I don’t see it. That probably flavors my views here.
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I suspect it is your own email settings, as I don’t get them either. And yet you’ve picked up about the changes. You’d have to be not using Logos at all not to know, I reckon. I always pick up monthly freebies etc.
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Mike Childs said:
I have introduced many young pastors over the decades to Logos. However, I would not in good conscience recommend that any young pastor take on another monthly payment.
First of all, shouldn't that be up to the young pastor to decide? Second, after two years of subscription you get to permanently keep the new offline features that were introduced during that time. So rather than a subscription model I am looking at it more like a rent to own.
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