Texts of Josephus
Can someone tell me the difference between these different works of Josephus? I am unsure of which one to buy. I have the Whiston in print but none in Logos. I would like english texts or Greek interlinears.
The Works of Josephus Josephus; William Whiston
Select Works of Josephus (8 vols.) Josephus
Flavius Josephus Collection (5 vols.) Josephus; Louis H. Feldman; Steve Mason
Comments
-
Select Works of Josephus doesn't include Antiquities of the Jews, so it is probably not useful for most Logos customers. It is Thackerey's translation, which is much newer than Whiston but still pre-papyri. Whiston does not include an interlinear, but you can use the parallel resource tool and buy the very cheap Greek text. https://www.logos.com/product/25450/the-works-of-flavius-josephus-greek-text-with-morphology Whiston is a very old translation and our understanding of Greek has come a long way since then, but it is serviceable and cheap.
The Flavius Josephus Collection is the modern translation of Life of Josephus and Antiquities of the Jews published by Brill. If you want to spend $500 to get the best translation available, more power to you, but I generally think Brill stands for Better Research Inter-Library Loan. But you still won't have Against Apion or the Jewish War.
Using Logos as a pastor, seminary professor, and Tyndale author
0 -
Agree with Justin.
The best question is Josephus for what?
I'm betting you should google 'josephus arabic' and go from there.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
0 -
I want the most complete corpus of Josephus in English or Greek. I own the Whiston in print. I want the best bang for the buck.
DMB said:The best question is Josephus for what?
Studying the world around the New Testament.
DMB said:I'm betting you should google 'josephus arabic'
I was amazed by this search. Never knew.
0 -
Well, I'd repeat my question: for what?
I'll use myself. I personally don't care about Josephus, beyond odd comments that play into other questions. So, let's say I'm in Enoch Similitudes and dating is a question. I want a simple translation (Whiston is fine, and covers the waterfront). Then, I want Niese ... what's the approximate greek?
Secondly, in feeding my analytics engines (or a BWS) I want as much morph-searchable greek, for the period before, during, and after the NT. So, I specifically collect the Philo interlinear, Niese's interlinear, and same for Pseudepigrapha, along with greek classics, Apostolic Fathers, and Patrologia.
Obviously I don't buy all at once. And conceivably the Max subscription offers them (don't know).
But if only Josephus, then Whiston (older but coverage). And if the money is begging to leave your pocket, Niese. The Feldman/Mason group is fine for going in circles (scholarly analysis on Antiquities).
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
0 -
DMB said:
for what?
The continuity between the Old and New Testaments was established by Church Fathers like Josephus. This in turn provided a link to the historical Jewish tradition for the readers. In order to comprehend the New Testament more fully, I aim to ascertain and investigate Josephus's rewriting of the Jewish past within a Greco-Roman cultural framework. Reconstructing the Jewish world in which Jesus was born depends heavily on the works of this first-century Jewish historian.The continuity between the Old and New Testaments was established by Josephus. This in turn provided a link to the historical Jewish tradition for the readers. In order to comprehend the New Testament more fully, I aim to ascertain and investigate Josephus's reconstruction of the Jewish history within a Greco-Roman cultural framework. This first-century Jewish historian's writings are essential for reassembling the Jewish world. I want to study parallels in John's Gospel and Josephus.
0 -
Christian Alexander said:
Church Fathers like Josephus.
Okay, stop and think. What are the chances that a Jewish historian is a Church Fathers? Try writing your answer in a single sentence without unnecessary background material.
Christian Alexander said:I want to study parallels in John's Gospel and Josephus.
Do some basic research on the viability of the project using ChatGPT, Perplexity, Logos Smart Search, Gemini ...
Perplexity said:Based on the search results, there are a few key events mentioned in the Gospel of John that have parallels in the writings of Josephus:
- John the Baptist - Josephus provides an account of John the Baptist, confirming his role as a preacher and his execution by Herod Antipas. This corroborates John's Gospel mentions of John the Baptist.
- Jesus - Josephus briefly mentions Jesus in a controversial passage called the Testimonium Flavianum. While parts of this passage are debated, it does provide some external corroboration for Jesus' existence and crucifixion.
- Jewish religious groups - Josephus writes about groups like the Pharisees and Sadducees that are also mentioned in John's Gospel.
- Roman officials - Josephus discusses figures like Pontius Pilate who appear in John's account of Jesus' trial and crucifixion.
- The Temple in Jerusalem - Both John's Gospel and Josephus describe the Jerusalem Temple and its importance in Jewish life.
- General historical context - Josephus provides background on the political and social situation in Judea during the time period covered by John's Gospel.
While Josephus does not directly parallel most of the specific events in John's narrative, his writings offer important historical context and some corroboration for key figures and institutions mentioned in the Gospel. The parallels are more about the overall setting and some key personalities rather than specific events unique to John's account.
Gemeni said:Parallels Between the Gospel of John and Josephus
Josephus, a first-century Jewish historian, provides valuable historical context for the events depicted in the Gospel of John.
Several key events in the Gospel find parallels or corroboration in Josephus' works, particularly Antiquities of the Jews and The Jewish War. 1. Josephus, Our Primary Source | From Jesus To Christ - The First Christians | FRONTLINE | PBS
www.pbs.org2. Josephus on John the Baptist - Livius.org
www.livius.orgHere are some notable examples:
1. John the Baptist
- Josephus' Account: While Josephus doesn't explicitly mention John's preaching or baptism, he does describe a figure named "John the Baptist" who was a prophet and considered a righteous man. Josephus notes that John was beheaded by Herod Antipas.1. Where is the Head of Saint John the Baptist? - The HISTORY Channel
www.history.com - Gospel of John: John the Baptist is portrayed as a forerunner of Jesus, baptizing him in the Jordan River and declaring him the Lamb of God.1. John 1:29 – Jesus Christ, the Lamb of God - Enter the Bible
enterthebible.org
2. Pontius Pilate
- Josephus' Account: Josephus mentions Pontius Pilate as the Roman governor of Judea during the time of Jesus.
He describes Pilate's actions and controversies, including the incident involving the Roman eagles being brought into Jerusalem. 1. Pontius Pilate - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org - Gospel of John: Pilate is the Roman official who condemns Jesus to crucifixion.
3. Herod Antipas
- Josephus' Account: Josephus provides detailed information about Herod Antipas, the tetrarch of Galilee and Perea. He describes Herod's personal life, political intrigues, and his involvement in the execution of John the Baptist.1. Dance floor where John the Baptist was condemned to death discovered, archaeologist says | Live Science
www.livescience.com - Gospel of John: Herod Antipas plays a role in the Gospel, questioning Jesus and ultimately sending him to Pilate.1. Jesus at Herod's court - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
4. The Jewish Feast of Passover
- Josephus' Account: Josephus describes the significance of Passover in Jewish tradition, including the ritual of the Passover meal and the commemoration of the Exodus from Egypt.1. Passover - Jewish Virtual Library
www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org - Gospel of John: The Gospel of John places the crucifixion of Jesus during the Passover week, highlighting its symbolic significance.1. Reading Mark and John Side-by-Side: The Last Days of Jesus - TaborBlog
jamestabor.com
5. The Sanhedrin
- Josephus' Account: Josephus discusses the Sanhedrin, the Jewish high court, and its role in governing the Jewish people.1. The Sanhedrin - Jewish Virtual Library
www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org - Gospel of John: The Sanhedrin is portrayed as the religious authority that tries and condemns Jesus.
While these parallels provide historical context and corroboration for certain events in the Gospel of John, it's important to note that the Gospel presents a theological and spiritual interpretation of these events, often going beyond the historical details provided by Josephus.
ChatGPT said:Several events and themes in the Gospel of John have parallels or connections with the writings of the Jewish historian Flavius Josephus, though these parallels are often indirect. Here are some key events in John’s Gospel with notable parallels or context in Josephus:
1. The Life and Activities of John the Baptist
- Gospel of John: The Gospel of John introduces John the Baptist as a key figure who baptizes people and bears witness to Jesus (John 1:19-36).
- Josephus: In Antiquities of the Jews (18.5.2), Josephus provides a more detailed description of John the Baptist as a popular preacher who called for moral reform and baptism for the purification of sins. This passage from Josephus confirms John the Baptist’s influence in the region, much like the depiction in the Gospels.
2. The Arrest of Jesus
- Gospel of John: The Gospel of John describes the arrest of Jesus in the Garden of Gethsemane, where a Roman cohort and Temple officers come to seize him (John 18:1-12).
- Josephus: In Antiquities (18.3.3), Josephus recounts the arrest of Jesus' brother James by the high priest, indicating that Roman authorities had a hand in suppressing potentially troublesome religious figures, aligning with the narrative in John where Jesus is arrested with Roman involvement.
3. The Role of Pontius Pilate
- Gospel of John: Pontius Pilate plays a central role in Jesus' trial and crucifixion, as described in John 18:28-19:16.
- Josephus: In Antiquities (18.3.2), Josephus gives a broader account of Pilate’s rule, describing him as a harsh and often brutal Roman prefect in Judea, particularly noting his interactions with the Jewish leadership, which provides context for Pilate’s interactions with Jesus in the Gospel.
4. The Jewish Leadership and Power Dynamics
- Gospel of John: Throughout the Gospel of John, Jewish leaders are depicted as antagonistic toward Jesus, seeking his death (e.g., John 11:47-53; John 18:12-14).
- Josephus: In various parts of Antiquities (e.g., 18.3.1-2; 20.9.1), Josephus describes the political power of the high priests and the Sanhedrin, often highlighting their collaboration with Roman authorities to maintain control and eliminate perceived threats, much like their portrayal in the Gospels.
5. Miracles and Signs
- Gospel of John: The Gospel of John emphasizes Jesus’ performance of signs and wonders, such as turning water into wine (John 2:1-11) or healing the blind man (John 9:1-12).
- Josephus: Although Josephus does not directly mention Jesus’ miracles, he does acknowledge in Antiquities (18.3.3) that Jesus was known for performing “surprising works,” a possible allusion to his miraculous acts, which were part of his reputation.
6. The Crucifixion of Jesus
- Gospel of John: The crucifixion of Jesus is central to the Gospel narrative (John 19:16-37), depicting the execution as a Roman practice carried out under Pilate’s authority.
- Josephus: While Josephus does not describe the crucifixion of Jesus specifically, he mentions the general practice of crucifixion by the Romans, especially during times of conflict (e.g., Jewish War 5.11.1), which provides historical background for the method of execution used on Jesus.
7. Messianic Expectations and Rebel Leaders
- Gospel of John: Jesus is presented as the Messiah (e.g., John 4:25-26), but his mission contrasts with the more militant expectations of a political liberator.
- Josephus: Josephus frequently discusses various messianic and revolutionary figures in his works (e.g., Antiquities 18.4.1-2; 20.8.6), such as Judas of Galilee and Theudas, who led rebellions against Roman rule. Josephus’ descriptions help frame the environment of messianic hopes during the time of Jesus, even though Jesus himself is depicted as non-violent in John.
These parallels show how Josephus’ writings provide historical and political context for many events and figures in the Gospel of John, although the direct overlap is often circumstantial or thematic rather than exact.
Now that you know what is readily available, what are you trying to do?
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
0 -
Christian, I think MJ's examples above are the route most advantegeous for you.
But that said, I'm a big believer in 'read the text'. Whether the NT or Josephus. Exactly.
Today, in Price, he was discussing Jesus as a resurrected (key word) JohnB. But the key word varient was 'he' (Antipas) or 'they' (Galileans). Minor? Major? How is a resurrected person identified? TheTalmud had guidance!
I only give this as an example, in that (sorry) you tend to operate at a high level ... generalizations. Scholar-talk.
Regarding Josephus, does he operate at a high spirit-based level (Paul, John) ... or more like MarK? Or more, Luke? As you read him?
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
0 -
DMB said:
in that (sorry) you tend to operate at a high level ... generalizations. Scholar-talk.
I want to reinforce this thought. Generalizations must be backed by a strong knowledge of the details - otherwise it becomes a meaningless word salad of terms misunderstood, borrowed phrases used in inappropriate contexts, and solid concepts undermined by obvious errors in the details supporting them.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
0 -
I am currently working on Josephus and his Antiquities for a monograph. I desperately miss the Loeb edition in Logos. Does anyone know how much longer this lacuna in logos universe will exist? The Brill-translations are helpful, but I'm mostly interested in an interlinear/tagging for Antiquitates Judaicae.
0 -
What lacuna, specifically?
There is this: https://www.logos.com/product/36597/select-works-of-josephus?queryId=ddc4b66d0a91da32a6ee574ec50ac840
0 -
Lew Worthington said:
What lacuna, specifically?
There is this: https://www.logos.com/product/36597/select-works-of-josephus?queryId=ddc4b66d0a91da32a6ee574ec50ac840
This contains "Jewish War", "Against Apion" and "Life", but not "Antiquities" which MR was asking about. I assume there exists a Loeb edition (in fact Logos has the datatype for it, if I see this correct), but not in Logos.
Have joy in the Lord!
0 -
MR said:
I'm mostly interested in an interlinear/tagging for Antiquitates Judaicae.
I don't see an interlinear, but there is a morphologically tagged edition.
Have joy in the Lord!
0 -
I run this Hendrickson edition (https://www.logos.com/product/154/the-works-of-josephus?queryId=a34b837c1c5770bed90caa03b61f9108 )
in parallel with the morphologically tagged edition. It does have Antiquities.
0
