Official: Here's what's included/excluded from the Legacy Fallback License

Nathan Parker

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1317536#Comment_1317536

Mark Barnes (Logos) said:

Nathan Parker said:

Quick Question: Is there a deadline that L10 users need to sign up for the new subscriptions to lock in a LFL? Thanks!

Not yet. We might impose one in the future, but we'll give plenty of notice if we do.

Perfect. Thanks!

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1317463#Comment_1317463

Anderson Abreu said:

Every two years, new features will be added to the subscriptions so that subscribers receive all the features Logos has accumulated over the last 30 years and going forward. Today, the Max subscription includes the features of FFS-Logos 10 + LFL (v.1). In two years, the Max subscription will include the features of FFS-Logos 10 + LFL (v.1) + LFL (v.2), and so on.

Imagine two years from now (2026), two users. Both have FFS-Logos10. But one did not subscribe and did not receive LFL-1 (2025-2026); the other subscribed for two years and received LFL-1 (2025-2026). Will both pay the same Max subscription price in 2027-2028?

Multiply these differences over the next 30 years of Logos. How will these differences in the features of different user accounts be differentiated and compensated for in subscription prices?

1. LFL is available to L10 owners, not just FFS owners (as per Mark's original post), but I understand that your example is for the Max level.
2. LFL will not be available forever, let alone 30 years! (see Mark's comment after your query)
3. Both will pay the same subscription if the discount is still applicable to the one joining later,
1. new users who join will pay the applicable price, higher than the discounted one (the difference may disappear over time).
4. Both will have the same Fallback features in 2028 (if the other joined in 2026).
1. new users will have use of the same features as those who joined earlier.
5. The subscription prices will be affected by the take up of the subscription and it will affect all users.
6. New users who opt out will fallback to a Free version of Logos, but who is to say that the free version will stay at the 2024 level...
7. At some point the features will have been paid for, say after 2 years....(now go back to points 5 and 6).

Jim Dean

Mark Barnes (Logos) said:

As a reminder, the LFL will be granted to subscribers after two years of continual subscription as a kind of "safety net" if you find you're no longer able to subscribe. That means you can be confident that you'll be able to use many Logos features long into the future. Perks and most books are not included in the LFL.

If you already own any of these features, their presence on this list does NOT mean they will be taken away from you. It just means that people without these features will likely not have them granted to them via LFL.

Mark ... 

Thank you.

I was one of the moderately vocal "concerned citizens" when subscriptions were first announced ... I've been with y'all 30+ years and $32k+ with 16k+ books later, I was concerned about perpetual features, and a bit about AI.

I just want to let you know that now all the decisions have been made and info is out there with pricing, I am *VERY SATISFIED* with the solution.  I'm upgrading my Max from 1 year to 2 as soon as the sales dept gets that order code sorted out.

THANK YOU for dealing with the worried grumblers like me.  You dun gud!

Doug Yates

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1322468#Comment_1322468

I agree!

Jim Dean said:

Mark Barnes (Logos) said:

As a reminder, the LFL will be granted to subscribers after two years of continual subscription as a kind of "safety net" if you find you're no longer able to subscribe. That means you can be confident that you'll be able to use many Logos features long into the future. Perks and most books are not included in the LFL.

If you already own any of these features, their presence on this list does NOT mean they will be taken away from you. It just means that people without these features will likely not have them granted to them via LFL.

Mark ... 

Thank you.

I was one of the moderately vocal "concerned citizens" when subscriptions were first announced ... I've been with y'all 30+ years and $32k+ with 16k+ books later, I was concerned about perpetual features, and a bit about AI.

I just want to let you know that now all the decisions have been made and info is out there with pricing, I am *VERY SATISFIED* with the solution.  I'm upgrading my Max from 1 year to 2 as soon as the sales dept gets that order code sorted out.

THANK YOU for dealing with the worried grumblers like me.  You dun gud!

Peter_G

On Sept.11, 2024, Mark Barnes wrote:

Mark Barnes (Logos) said:

After many, many, requests, I'm finally able to give more details on what is likely to be included and excluded from the Legacy Fallback License (LFL). I'm sorry it's taken so long.

As a reminder, the LFL will be granted to subscribers after two years of continual subscription as a kind of "safety net" if you find you're no longer able to subscribe. That means you can be confident that you'll be able to use many Logos features long into the future. Perks and most books are not included in the LFL.

Mark went on to write:

Mark Barnes (Logos) said:

The first LFL will not be issued until October 2026, and many more features will be added between now and then. This list only deals with current features (including early access features). If possible, we'll try to identify whether future features will likely be eligible for the LFL when they are released.

In my case, I became an "Early Access" subscriber on April 14, 2024. So two years would take me to April 13, 2026.

But then Mark says that "The first LFL will not be issued until October 2026." In my case, 6 months later.

So which is it? After two years of continual subscription, or after two years from October 2024?

Steven MacDonald

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1322549#Comment_1322549

Peter_G said:

On Sept.11, 2024, Mark Barnes wrote:

Mark Barnes (Logos) said:

After many, many, requests, I'm finally able to give more details on what is likely to be included and excluded from the Legacy Fallback License (LFL). I'm sorry it's taken so long.

As a reminder, the LFL will be granted to subscribers after two years of continual subscription as a kind of "safety net" if you find you're no longer able to subscribe. That means you can be confident that you'll be able to use many Logos features long into the future. Perks and most books are not included in the LFL.

Mark went on to write:

Mark Barnes (Logos) said:

The first LFL will not be issued until October 2026, and many more features will be added between now and then. This list only deals with current features (including early access features). If possible, we'll try to identify whether future features will likely be eligible for the LFL when they are released.

In my case, I became an "Early Access" subscriber on April 14, 2024. So two years would take me to April 13, 2026.

But then Mark says that "The first LFL will not be issued until October 2026." In my case, 6 months later.

So which is it? After two years of continual subscription, or after two years from October 2024?

Here is Mark's answer from a former post.  I too subscribed early.  So basically you will "qualify" for the LFL after your two years of subscription but won't get it until it is actually released.  Hope this helps.

Jim Dean

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1322549#Comment_1322549

Peter G

I’ve asked about this too. 
my understanding is that since the subscriptions weren’t “official” nor at their final price levels and categories until Aug-Oct-ish, Octover is being used for that fallback determination date - keep in mind that what one falls back TO is based on what level of subscription one has maintained - and there were no “levels” in early access initially. 

The ADVANTAGE of having maintained a continuous subscription from the early days is that any PURCHASES during that time “count towards” the initial 5% off certificate they will be first issuing next Feb-Mar(?). 

Peter_G

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1322624#Comment_1322624

Jim Dean said:

my understanding is that since the subscriptions weren’t “official” nor at their final price levels and categories until Aug-Oct-ish, October is being used for that fallback determination date - keep in mind that what one falls back TO is based on what level of subscription one has maintained - and there were no “levels” in early access initially.

Thanks for sharing that, Jim. It sounds like an "after the event" explanation. I don't recall any caveats or limitations being announced with regard to early-adopter subscriptions. Given that nice words were spoken about those who paid for Early Access, I would expect that Logos would reward our commitment to the platform and to the subscription model by bringing forward the two-year deadline. Rather than mealy-mouthed "explanations" that, after all, those Early Access subscriptions "weren't official."

(BTW, I was an Early Access subscriber to Pro, and have continued with an unbroken Pro subscription since mid April.)

Any comment from Mark Barnes, or other officials?

Peter_G

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1322788#Comment_1322788

Update:

I emailed Logos Customer Support with the following questions. Their reply follows below.

I asked:

1. My subscription, starting on 14 April 2024, continues unbroken to this day.
2. What happens, if, on 15 April 2026, I cancel my subscription? (That would be over two years continuous subscription, as required.)
3. Would my installation revert to a bare-metal Logos install on that day?

1. If so, what would happen in October 2026 when FallBack Licenses are issued? Would my eligible features then be restored?
2. What will happen to my installation during the 6 months (April-October 2026) in that situation?

Logos Customer Support replied:

1 - The software would revert back to what has been paid for on the account. 

 2- A fallback license would be applied to the account with the qualifying features at that time. We do not have a list of features that will be available at that time. 

 3 - Same answer to #1. 

 

So now we know?? WHEN WOULD THE FALLBACK LICENSE be applied? April or October? What happens between times?

Fabian

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1322792#Comment_1322792

I asked in another thread, and there they couldn't give an answer as they even don't know. 

My question was: Does the LFL only works once or every 2 years. And what's with new users?

Thanks for your competent replay.

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1322792#Comment_1322792

Peter_G said:

I asked:

1. My subscription, starting on 14 April 2024, continues unbroken to this day.
2. What happens, if, on 15 April 2026, I cancel my subscription? (That would be over two years continuous subscription, as required.)
3. Would my installation revert to a bare-metal Logos install on that day?

1. If so, what would happen in October 2026 when FallBack Licenses are issued? Would my eligible features then be restored?
2. What will happen to my installation during the 6 months (April-October 2026) in that situation?

The Legacy Fallback License will become available in the fall of 2026 and will include features from your subscription tier that were available at that time but that don't rely on the cloud or AI.

1. You are eligible in April 2026 but won't receive the benefits until October 2026. But, it appears that you will only receive the features available to you in April 2026 (when you cancelled).

2. When you cancel you retain features that you own, that made you eligible for Early Access, plus books that you own. So you could fall into a feature void between those dates, and I doubt that FL has thought about that scenario as cancelling in October would be easier to handle.