Trying to determine when Greek "basiliea" (kingdom,dominion) in Septuagint is not based on the Root
Hello Team,
First, I'm neither a Greek nor a Hebrew scholar. I'm simply trying to avail myself of the tools within Logos. Any input or insight on what I'm doing wrong would be appreciated.
Problem: Trying to identify in the Septuagint (with Logos Morphology) where lemma βασιλεία (basiliea) is used and not based on the Hebrew root מלך (mlk).
Logos Search: lemma.g:βασιλεία NOT EQUALS (root.h:מלך.1 OR root.h:מֶ֫לֶךְ.1)
My search returns 166 results and includes basiliea based on mlk. I don't understand what I'm missing here.
Ralph
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Ralph Gibson III said:
My search returns 166 results and includes basiliea based on mlk
Please give an example of such a result
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Graham,
The partial results from the Logos Search Tool are shown below:
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What about using
The Parallel Aligned Hebrew-Aramaic and Greek Texts of Jewish Scripture ?
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Hi Ralph
it looks like your screenshot didn’t appear
please try again using the paperclip icon in the forum editor.
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Graham,
So sorry, I'm attempting to paste in a screen shot of the results of a Logos Search below again. Search parameters highlighted in green box.
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Ralph Gibson III said:
I'm attempting to paste in a screen shot
Are you using the paperclip icon in the forum editor?
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In the first of those results, for example, there isn't an associated Hebrew root - so it is matching the search conditions. And, for the others I have checked it matches as well.
Have you found a search result that doesn't match the search criteria?
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Graham,
First, I thank you sincerely for taking the time to review and report back on this. I assure you that I am only trying to learn the proper use of Logos Search for the original biblical languages.
Second, I concur with your findings that out of the 166 returned results - again, I'm searching the Septuagint with Logos Morphology - most of the results do not include the Hebrew root מלך/mlk. However, there are several returned results that do include the Hebrew root מלך.
For clarity, my Logos Search is: lemma.g:βασιλεία NOT EQUALS (root.h:מלך.1 OR root.h:מֶ֫לֶךְ.1)
Recognizing that my search only makes sense where the Septuagint is based on the Hebrew OT, of the 166 return results, I find at least the following Greek use of basiliea/βασιλεία being based on the Hebrew root mlk/מלך: (Septuagint with Logos Morph):
- 1 Chron 4:23
- 2 Chron 8:6
- 2 Chron 8:9
- Dan 2:37
- Dan 2:39
- Dan 2:40
- Dan 2:41
- Dan 2:42
- Dan 2:44 (3 results)
- Dan 4:30
- Dan 4:31
- Dan 4:36
Again, I'm not trying to make any point here and rather am trying to understand how best to search for a Greek lemma, basliea/βασιλεία, in the Old Testament that isn't based on the Hebrew root melek/מלך.
Thanks again for the review and offer to help.
Ralph
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Ralph,
I'm not understanding Hebrew at all, but I think that your results from the book of Daniel may be due to the fact that you excluded the Hebrew root mlk but those chapters were written in Aramaic and therefore the root would be Aramaic mlk (which is a different root in Logos - having Logos build a search from the right-click menu will show that)
Have joy in the Lord!
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NB.Mick said:
I'm not understanding Hebrew at all, but I think that your results from the book of Daniel may be due to the fact that you excluded the Hebrew root mlk but those chapters were written in Aramaic and therefore the root would be Aramaic mlk (which is a different root in Logos - having Logos build a search from the right-click menu will show that)
And for 1 Chron 4:23 it seems to have a different Hebrew root - you can exclude this by extending the search string to be:
lemma.g:βασιλεία NOT EQUALS (root.h:מלך.1 OR root.h:מֶ֫לֶךְ.1 OR root.h:לאך)
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In the LXX of 1 Chronicles 4:23, there are two instances of the same root. I think that is what is confusing you:
μετὰ τοῦ βασιλέως ἐν τῇ βασιλείᾳ 9 עִם 10 הַ 11 מֶּ֥לֶךְ 12 בִּ → 13 מְלַאכְתּ֖ Septuaginta: With Morphology, electronic ed. (Stuttgart: Deutsche Bibelgesellschaft, 1979), 1 Ch 4:23.Using Logos as a pastor, seminary professor, and Tyndale author
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But Ralph, I think what you really want is the Septuagint Translation section of the Bible Word Study. https://ref.ly/logos4/Guide?t=System+Guide+Customizations%3a+Septuagint+Translation+(Word)&lemma=lbs%2fel%2f%CE%B2%CE%B1%CF%83%CE%B9%CE%BB%CE%B5%CE%AF%CE%B1
Or, less beautifully but maybe more functionally, select "Analysis" in your search and sort by Hebrew Lemma and then Aramaic Lemma underneath it. Then right click one of the words and select "Summary view" and it will give you a nice view.
Using Logos as a pastor, seminary professor, and Tyndale author
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Ralph Gibson III said:
For clarity, my Logos Search is: lemma.g:βασιλεία NOT EQUALS (root.h:מלך.1 OR root.h:מֶ֫לֶךְ.1)
This will find results where the Greek is not based on Hebrew MSS words, which will have Hebrew Strong's numbers in Logos LXX. So modify the Search to:
(lemma.g:βασιλεία EQUALS strongs:H1–H8679) NOT EQUALS (root.h:מלך.1 OR root.h:מֶ֫לֶךְ.1)
and I get 43 results, including the ones you listed as "being based on the Hebrew root mlk/מלך:" i.e.- 1 Chron 4:23
- 2 Chron 8:6
- 2 Chron 8:9
- Dan 2:37
- Dan 2:39
- Dan 2:40
- Dan 2:41
- Dan 2:42
- Dan 2:44 (3 results)
- Dan 4:30
- Dan 4:31
- Dan 4:36
EDIT: I see the confusion with the Daniel results because they are based on the Aramaic root for melek, so the query should be
lemma.g:βασιλεία EQUALS strongs:H1–H8679 NOT EQUALS (root.a:מלך.1 OR root.a:מֶ֫לֶךְ OR root.h:מלך.1 OR root.h:מֶ֫לֶךְ.1)
(The three Chronicles results you cite are NOT based on melek)
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Dave,
Thank you! I do indeed stand corrected on the the three Chronicles references in that they Hebrew root is NOT מלך/mlk.
Your input is appreciated.
Ralph
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Justin,
Thank you for the insight and recommendations! The underlying analysis of each occurrence of the lemma is something I often forget.
Ralph
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NB,
Thank you for the input! Most helpful!
Ralph
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Graham,
Thank you, sir! This exchange has been most helpful.
Ralph
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