Trying to determine when Greek "basiliea" (kingdom,dominion) in Septuagint is not based on the Root

Hello Team,

First, I'm neither a Greek nor a Hebrew scholar. I'm simply trying to avail myself of the tools within Logos. Any input or insight on what I'm doing wrong would be appreciated.

Problem: Trying to identify in the Septuagint (with Logos Morphology) where lemma βασιλεία (basiliea) is used and not based on the Hebrew root מלך (mlk).

Logos Search: lemma.g:βασιλεία NOT EQUALS (root.h:מלך.1 OR root.h:מֶ֫לֶךְ.1)

My search returns 166 results and includes basiliea based on mlk. I don't understand what I'm missing here.

Ralph

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Graham Criddle

My search returns 166 results and includes basiliea based on mlk

Please give an example of such a result

Ralph Gibson III

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1319675#Comment_1319675

Graham,

The partial results from the Logos Search Tool are shown below:

NichtnurBibelleser

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1319713#Comment_1319713

What about using

The Parallel Aligned Hebrew-Aramaic and Greek Texts of Jewish Scripture ?

Graham Criddle

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1319713#Comment_1319713

Hi Ralph

it looks like your screenshot didn’t appear

please try again using the paperclip icon in the forum editor.

Ralph Gibson III

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1319755#Comment_1319755

Graham,

So sorry, I'm attempting to paste in a screen shot of the results of a Logos Search below again. Search parameters highlighted in green box.

Graham Criddle

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1319761#Comment_1319761

I'm attempting to paste in a screen shot

Are you using the paperclip icon in the forum editor?

Ralph Gibson III

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1319770#Comment_1319770

Graham Criddle

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1319778#Comment_1319778

In the first of those results, for example, there isn't an associated Hebrew root - so it is matching the search conditions. And, for the others I have checked it matches as well.

Have you found a search result that doesn't match the search criteria?

Ralph Gibson III

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1319827#Comment_1319827

Graham,

First, I thank you sincerely for taking the time to review and report back on this. I assure you that I am only trying to learn the proper use of Logos Search for the original biblical languages.

Second, I concur with your findings that out of the 166 returned results - again, I'm searching the Septuagint with Logos Morphology - most of the results do not include the Hebrew root מלך/mlk. However, there are several returned results that do include the Hebrew root מלך.

For clarity, my Logos Search is: lemma.g:βασιλεία NOT EQUALS (root.h:מלך.1 OR root.h:מֶ֫לֶךְ.1)

Recognizing that my search only makes sense where the Septuagint is based on the Hebrew OT, of the 166 return results, I find at least the following Greek use of basiliea/βασιλεία being based on the Hebrew root mlk/מלך: (Septuagint with Logos Morph):

1 Chron 4:23
2 Chron 8:6
2 Chron 8:9
Dan 2:37
Dan 2:39
Dan 2:40
Dan 2:41
Dan 2:42
Dan 2:44 (3 results)
Dan 4:30
Dan 4:31
Dan 4:36

Again, I'm not trying to make any point here and rather am trying to understand how best to search for a Greek lemma, basliea/βασιλεία, in the Old Testament that isn't based on the Hebrew root melek/מלך.

Thanks again for the review and offer to help.

Ralph

NB.Mick

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1319835#Comment_1319835

Ralph,

I'm not understanding Hebrew at all, but I think that your results from the book of Daniel may be due to the fact that you excluded the Hebrew root mlk but those chapters were written in Aramaic and therefore the root would be Aramaic mlk (which is a different root in Logos - having Logos build a search from the right-click menu will show that)

Graham Criddle

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1319839#Comment_1319839

I'm not understanding Hebrew at all, but I think that your results from the book of Daniel may be due to the fact that you excluded the Hebrew root mlk but those chapters were written in Aramaic and therefore the root would be Aramaic mlk (which is a different root in Logos - having Logos build a search from the right-click menu will show that)

And for 1 Chron 4:23 it seems to have a different Hebrew root - you can exclude this by extending the search string to be:

lemma.g:βασιλεία NOT EQUALS (root.h:מלך.1 OR root.h:מֶ֫לֶךְ.1 OR root.h:לאך)

Justin Gatlin

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1319844#Comment_1319844

In the LXX of 1 Chronicles 4:23, there are two instances of the same root. I think that is what is confusing you:

μετὰ		τοῦ		βασιλέως		ἐν		τῇ		βασιλείᾳ
₉ עִם		₁₀ הַ		₁₁ מֶּ֥לֶךְ		₁₂ בִּ		→		₁₃ מְלַאכְתּ֖

Septuaginta: With Morphology, electronic ed. (Stuttgart: Deutsche Bibelgesellschaft, 1979), 1 Ch 4:23.

Justin Gatlin

But Ralph, I think what you really want is the Septuagint Translation section of the Bible Word Study. https://ref.ly/logos4/Guide?t=System+Guide+Customizations%3a+Septuagint+Translation+(Word)&lemma=lbs%2fel%2f%CE%B2%CE%B1%CF%83%CE%B9%CE%BB%CE%B5%CE%AF%CE%B1

Or, less beautifully but maybe more functionally, select "Analysis" in your search and sort by Hebrew Lemma and then Aramaic Lemma underneath it. Then right click one of the words and select "Summary view" and it will give you a nice view.

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1319835#Comment_1319835

For clarity, my Logos Search is: lemma.g:βασιλεία NOT EQUALS (root.h:מלך.1 OR root.h:מֶ֫לֶךְ.1)

This will find results where the Greek is not based on Hebrew MSS words, which will have Hebrew Strong's numbers in Logos LXX. So modify the Search to:
(lemma.g:βασιλεία EQUALS strongs:H1–H8679) NOT EQUALS (root.h:מלך.1 OR root.h:מֶ֫לֶךְ.1)
and I get 43 results, including the ones you listed as "being based on the Hebrew root mlk/מלך:" i.e.

EDIT: I see the confusion with the Daniel results because they are based on the Aramaic root for melek, so the query should be

lemma.g:βασιλεία EQUALS strongs:H1–H8679 NOT EQUALS (root.a:מלך.1 OR root.a:מֶ֫לֶךְ OR root.h:מלך.1 OR root.h:מֶ֫לֶךְ.1)

(The three Chronicles results you cite are NOT based on melek)

Ralph Gibson III

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1319858#Comment_1319858

Dave,

Thank you! I do indeed stand corrected on the the three Chronicles references in that they Hebrew root is NOT מלך/mlk.

Your input is appreciated.

Ralph

Ralph Gibson III

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1319852#Comment_1319852

Justin,

Thank you for the insight and recommendations! The underlying analysis of each occurrence of the lemma is something I often forget.

Ralph

Ralph Gibson III

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1319844#Comment_1319844

NB,

Thank you for the input! Most helpful!

Ralph

Ralph Gibson III

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1319844#Comment_1319844

Graham,

Thank you, sir! This exchange has been most helpful.

Ralph