Dear Logos, I have L10 purchases that are not published
Dear Logos/Verbum,
I was quite pleased with the Verbum libraries released today although with only the standard series released I didn't get a chance to get my favorite focuses. However, I was not pleased at the number of L10 package resources that I have yet to receive. With the 25 libraries, I now have 183 books that I own but have not received ... and no way to track which I have already waited 2 years for. My first choice for a solution is that you release final files for the L10 missing books but being realistic, could the I'm waiting and waiting and waiting list include the date on which the book was purchased?
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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I have this sinking feeling that in the change in leadership and business model Logos has either lost sight of or deprioritized completing the sold but unfinished/unreleased resources from previous base packages of Logos/Verbum
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I've asked someone on the content team to respond to this.
Where do you get the count of 183 from?
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Mark Barnes (Logos) said:
Where do you get the count of 183 from?
In the Logos (not Verbum) storefront, in browse all books, i select two facets - owned and status pre-pub. The count at the end is 183 which matches the 3 pages of 60 each plus 3 books on the final page.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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MJ. Smith said:Mark Barnes (Logos) said:
Where do you get the count of 183 from?
In the Logos (not Verbum) storefront, in browse all books, i select two facets - owned and status pre-pub. The count at the end is 183 which matches the 3 pages of 60 each plus 3 books on the final page.
Did you check your library and deduct all those you already have there, even though they are still in production or even gathering interest? (For me the count is in the hundreds as well, but I believe the vast majority of them are in my library nevertheless)
Have joy in the Lord!
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MJ. Smith said:
In the Logos (not Verbum) storefront, in browse all books, i select two facets - owned and status pre-pub. The count at the end is 183 which matches the 3 pages of 60 each plus 3 books on the final page.
I'll be honest, I don't know what's going on here. But I can say that this search doesn't tell the whole story. There are resources resulting from this search that I already have in my library. I would venture to guess that if you began to search through these titles, you would find that you already have access to some of those resources as well.
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NB.Mick said:
Did you check your library and deduct all those you already have there, even though they are still in production or even gathering interest?
No, I didn't ... I've used the same measure for years. A quick sampling found 1 L10 book in my library but the others were not - but it was a small sample so ...
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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MJ. Smith said:
In the Logos (not Verbum) storefront, in browse all books, i select two facets - owned and status pre-pub. The count at the end is 183 which matches the 3 pages of 60 each plus 3 books on the final page.
Interesting. Without this post I wouldn't have checked. I got a german 2025 Library.
Under logos.com with the two facets (owned and status pre-pub) I get 13 entries with various shipping dates. All of the monographs are already in my library. Examining the works of church fathers (BKV) included in the new Library I see some volumes I still miss.
- Werke von Clemens von Alexandria: 1 (out of 4) missing
- Werke von Cyprian von Kathargo: 1 (out of 16) missing
- Werke von Clemens von Alexandria: 2 (out of 16) missing
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I have 60, but the first 15 or so I randomly checked were in my library. I think there might be an issue with the filter on the website. Perhaps the status of the books was never changed from "In Production" once they were developed.
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As others have said, books sometimes become available to Library owners before we're able to go through all the processes to release them from pre-pub. I checked my personal account (which has 548 apparently outstanding!), and the first example was Exalting Jesus in the Sermon on the Mount, which is still in pre-pub, but it's in my library because I obtained it through 2025 Gold.
We typically wait a little before releasing pre-pubs that come on stream around launch to give people time to buy the new libraries. It would be pretty annoying to spend $100 on pre-pubs and then find they were all in a library at a 90% discount. (There are other factors, but that's one of the main ones.)
One way to have a good idea whether a pre-pub book might already be available is whether it has a See Inside button (it's not foolproof, but it's a good indication that it's probably in your library if you own a collection that it's in).
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So you're telling me that the profit-obsessed, greedy Logos that went to a subscription model to bleed everyone's wallets dry intentionally delays selling books at a higher price in order to "secretly" allow customers to buy those books for less? Huh...Mark Barnes (Logos) said:We typically wait a little before releasing pre-pubs that come on stream around launch to give people time to buy the new libraries. It would be pretty annoying to spend $100 on pre-pubs and then find they were all in a library at a 90% discount. (There are other factors, but that's one of the main ones.)
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MJ. Smith said:
Dear Logos/Verbum,
I was quite pleased with the Verbum libraries released today although with only the standard series released I didn't get a chance to get my favorite focuses. However, I was not pleased at the number of L10 package resources that I have yet to receive. With the 25 libraries, I now have 183 books that I own but have not received ... and no way to track which I have already waited 2 years for. My first choice for a solution is that you release final files for the L10 missing books but being realistic, could the I'm waiting and waiting and waiting list include the date on which the book was purchased?
Hi MJ, glad to hear you are enjoying the new options. I am going to dive deeper into what L10 & V10 content we've committed to that hasn't shipped yet. I will explore this and work with the team to close these gaps. We were very intentional this release to limit these "sell them before they are fully deliverable" resources to prevent this gap from continuing.
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Aaron Hamilton said:
So you're telling me that the profit-obsessed, greedy Logos that went to a subscription model to bleed everyone's wallets dry intentionally delays selling books at a higher price in order to "secretly" allow customers to buy those books for less? Huh...Mark Barnes (Logos) said:We typically wait a little before releasing pre-pubs that come on stream around launch to give people time to buy the new libraries. It would be pretty annoying to spend $100 on pre-pubs and then find they were all in a library at a 90% discount. (There are other factors, but that's one of the main ones.)
As we build out the new offerings, we are sourcing and bundling content well in advance. Part of this is getting it through the production cycle so it is ready to go on day one. In the past, we've sold content prior to it being completed and this has led to the unsatisfactory situation of having content you've purchased that hasn't been delivered.
We've committed to offering the best value in our packages. We want our customers to have a fantastic experience and as Mark perfectly outlined, that wouldn't be the case to buy something at a high price point to only have it available in a package shortly thereafter! If there are any titles you think you should have access to, please confirm first in the software. We do ship the content there and for a variety of reason may not have changed the status on the website.
If there are any specific requests or concerns, please post them here and I will address them with the team!0 -
Mitch, you're just the nicest ... sincerely.
But this thread is one big embarrassment. I say that, since, stupid me, for years, I used to encourage participation in both CC and PP. Save money and hopefully build up Logos' library to others. That turned out to be a joke (I felt like). Each time I recommended, someone piped up saying they already had it. I quickly put the kabosh on that.
The mystery (embarrassment) is the seeming FL disinterest in selling product. Sure, the packages get shipped, and owners get their product, but others (me) see a prepub just sitting ... I guess for years ... who knows ... can't buy it. Then Mark says, there's a clue you can use!
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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I would hope that finished products don't sit longer than 6 months max. I can see how sitting longer would be frustrating. I totally understand withholding some publications though until libraries have launched. In fact I would be surprised if they didn't.
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DMB said:
Mitch, you're just the nicest ... sincerely.
Well, my mother will be proud
Part of my role here is overseeing these programs. I would say that CP was a valuable tool in the past to help judge demand for products prior to putting them into production. However, they did tend to just sit and linger for(ever) a long time and I don't think the model makes sense, which is why we made the decision to shut that program down.DMB said:The mystery (embarrassment) is the seeming FL disinterest in selling product. Sure, the packages get shipped, and owners get their product, but others (me) see a prepub just sitting ... I guess for years ... who knows ... can't buy it. Then Mark says, there's a clue you can use!
One of my goals is to continue to address the backlog of Prepubs and collections that are stuck in limbo. Some we will be able to get into production as we continue to adopt better SOP's and processes internally that help drop production costs. Please continue to raise these issues, we want to constantly improve. Since this thread started, I've started the process of auditing content back through L9 to help identify anything that may be produced and finished but not properly updated on the website. So your feedback isn't falling on deaf ears, so keep it coming!0 -
In checking more of them, it appears that the recent libraries are a matter of the storefront having the wrong status and the L10, V10 still not being in my library.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Mark Barnes (Logos) said:
As others have said, books sometimes become available to Library owners before we're able to go through all the processes to release them from pre-pub. I checked my personal account (which has 548 apparently outstanding!), and the first example was Exalting Jesus in the Sermon on the Mount, which is still in pre-pub, but it's in my library because I obtained it through 2025 Gold.
So this book is an interesting example of the problem MJ is surfacing. Unlike you Mark, I obtained Exalting Jesus in the Sermon on the Mount as part of a Logos 10 library purchase. One of the Baptist libraries if memory serves. The resource downloaded first as a Logos eBook, then eventually switched to a Logos Reader where it still sits. Meanwhile most of the metadata about the resource remains incomplete (e.g. Era and Type for Passage Guide Bible Commentary and Factbook tagging). So while I understand the "wait a little" strategy around the 2025 libraries, this resource is a poor example and should have been published fully as part of Logos 10 purchase fulfillment. To MJs point, transparency on these "available for purchase but not yet complete" resources is lacking. I frankly do not care how long a book sits in pre-pub but once Logos has collected actual money, the clock is ticking.
Windows 11 & macOS 15 (Logos Pro) | iOS 18 (Logos Mobile Beta)
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According to the tagging system that I use when tag all new resources, shows that this particular resource "Exalting Jesus in the Sermon on the Mount" has been in my library since March of 2020. One of the first things that I do when obtaining new resources is to put the month and the year before I do any further tagging.
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Bill Shewmaker said:
According to the tagging system that I use when tag all new resources, shows that this particular resource "Exalting Jesus in the Sermon on the Mount" has been in my library since March of 2020. One of the first things that I do when obtaining new resources is to put the month and the year before I do any further tagging.
I'm not sure if you are agreeing, disagreeing, or just adding a new data point concerning this resource. I cannot speak to the date it was first made available but it was made available as an eReader some time ago - maybe March 2020? Today it sits as a Logos Reader and just earlier today the Passage Guide Era and Type were added. It is being moved through some release process all of a sudden but my points are 1) shouldn't it have been moved through some type of release process closer to March 2020 and not November 2024 if being sold in March 2020 and 2) what other books are stuck in an in-between state in the 2020/Logos 10 bucket?
Windows 11 & macOS 15 (Logos Pro) | iOS 18 (Logos Mobile Beta)
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Bill Shewmaker said:
new resources is to put the month and the year before I do any further tagging
I wish I had started doing that many years ago. Great idea.
Even better would be for Logos to expose the Date Added property for each book within the library panel. It doesn't seem like it would be hard, and some of us would find it pretty helpful.
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Chris Heil said:
So this book is an interesting example of the problem MJ is surfacing. Unlike you Mark, I obtained Exalting Jesus in the Sermon on the Mount as part of a Logos 10 library purchase. One of the Baptist libraries if memory serves. The resource downloaded first as a Logos eBook, then eventually switched to a Logos Reader where it still sits.
This book may be an interesting example - but it is probably not a typical example. It started as an eBook in the ebooks.faithlife store (or even the Vyrso store?) and Logos later decided to bring the series over to Logos edition formats. Now there is no real process for this scenario - the fact that it is available may even interfere (such as "give priority to really new products, we'll get to the conversion of the existing ones when time comes", which may or may not be an accurate guess from my side with no actual inside knowledge).
Have joy in the Lord!
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NB.Mick said:Chris Heil said:
So this book is an interesting example of the problem MJ is surfacing. Unlike you Mark, I obtained Exalting Jesus in the Sermon on the Mount as part of a Logos 10 library purchase. One of the Baptist libraries if memory serves. The resource downloaded first as a Logos eBook, then eventually switched to a Logos Reader where it still sits.
This book may be an interesting example - but it is probably not a typical example. It started as an eBook in the ebooks.faithlife store (or even the Vyrso store?) and Logos later decided to bring the series over to Logos edition formats. Now there is no real process for this scenario - the fact that it is available may even interfere (such as "give priority to really new products, we'll get to the conversion of the existing ones when time comes", which may or may not be an accurate guess from my side with no actual inside knowledge).
Not to sound my kid brother, but it is Mark Barnes' fault. He chose it as his example further up the thread. I probably would not have waded in if it had not already specifically been mentioned.
Windows 11 & macOS 15 (Logos Pro) | iOS 18 (Logos Mobile Beta)
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