Official: Why did(n't) you get a Logos subscription?
We want to ensure that Logos meets the needs of everyone who wants to study the Bible. To help us make sure we're doing that as effectively as possible, would you take a minute to answer these two questions?
- Have you subscribed to the new version of Logos?
- Yes, I'm a current subscriber (or on the free trial)
- No, I tried it for a bit, but I didn't renew
- No, but I plan to get it reasonably soon
- No, and I'm undecided whether I'll get it
- No, and I plan not to get it
Please be honest. It's important to us that we understand how well (or not!) we're meeting your needs, so we want to understand what you really think.
Thanks!
Comments
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Mark Barnes (Logos) said:
We want to ensure that Logos meets the needs of everyone who wants to study the Bible. To help us make sure we're doing that as effectively as possible, would you take a minute to answer these two questions?
- Have you subscribed to the new version of Logos?
- Yes, I'm a current subscriber (or on the free trial)
- No, I tried it for a bit, but I didn't renew
- No, but I plan to get it reasonably soon
- No, and I'm undecided whether I'll get it
- No, and I plan not to get it
- What's the primary reason for your decision?
Please be honest. It's important to us that we understand how well (or not!) we're meeting your needs, so we want to understand what you really think.
Thanks!
5 - (Though I was willing to give Logos a chance to impress me with the LFL - side note, if the LFL is a one time occurrence - no LFL would be the reason as well)
Primary Reason? As of now, the Dynamic Toolbar - As I've stated in other posts, if I had the option of using the Classic Toolbar, I would give the LFL a chance to impress - without that option, I see nothing worth the loss of efficiency in my use of the program.
(Though I would be interested in the Android Sermon features that finally arrived - I also wonder why a subscription is required for a Feature Parity - I could be wrong, but I do not recall any other OS being required to pay for Feature Parity... That aside, I've gone this long without Logos Sermon tools (Gave up after Sermon File was taken away) and again, the value in paying for Feature Parity vs lost efficiency is not worth it to this user)
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 16 & Android 14
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First! (Frank beat me!)
1. I subscribed. (I am among those who were skeptical but not dramatic about it.)
I ultimately subscribed for a number of reasons:
- Being an L10 owner, the price I got was comparable to buying a feature set during the previous upgrade cycles, so I thought I'd try it out.
- Fallback license
- Monthly free book + 5% discount sealed it.
Additionally, once I subscribed to Max, I was pleasantly surprised to see the Cambridge Commentary included. That is a useful set I don't have many volumes of.
I'm still on the fence about the AI fad features. I have personally found a few uses for it but hope you continue to develop Logos in other ways as well.
Also: I love the new toolbar. Best feature of the release.
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1. I am a current subscriber. I subscribed because that is the direction most software seems to be going. After significant investment in Logos since the late 1990's, I don't want Logos to go out of business like BibleWorks did. I usually paid for Logos upgrades every two years so the subscription with early discount is comparable.
While the new features are interesting, I don't use them that much. I am subscribed despite Logos forcing the new toolbar on me, but the toolbar has me questioning whether I need to unsubscribe. While some like it, but I find it irritating and frustrating. Time with the new toolbar has not helped as I used it through the beta period as well. Please make the toolbar optional or allow some level of customization.
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Mark Barnes (Logos) said:
No, and I plan not to get it
What's the primary reason for your decision?
No need for it, and nothing 'oh wow' for several years now. Logos 10 works great. Books are what I enjoy. Frank mentioned the toolbar, and thus I wouldn't even try the 'AI' functions.
I would add, the whole sequence is a bit manipulative ... no free trial if you're a Logos 10 customer, Logos '11' libraries and so forth. No disagreement, the company is a company. But the customer is a customer.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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DMB said:Mark Barnes (Logos) said:
No, and I plan not to get it
What's the primary reason for your decision?
No need for it, and nothing 'oh wow' for several years now. Logos 10 works great. Books are what I enjoy. Frank mentioned the toolbar, and thus I wouldn't even try the 'AI' functions.
I would add, the whole sequence is a bit manipulative ... no free trial if you're a Logos 10 customer, Logos '11' libraries and so forth. No disagreement, the company is a company. But the customer is a customer.
You should be able to get one month free.
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5. No, and I plan not to get it.
I'll take a small step back and note that I tried the Logos 10 Full-Feature Upgrade (thanks to a two-week trial period), but discerned that for me (already having a number of the core features through previous Logos package purchases over the years), I could live happily without the new features. (There was one workflow I did like, so I bought that separately.)
I've already shared elsewhere on this forum my aversion to software subscription models, so that is additional context. I am content with the features and functionality that exists within my existing perpetual Logos license, features, and books. However, I do intend continue purchasing books down the road (and likely library packages--though it seems terribly silly that I need to temporarily subscribe in order to buy them, only to cancel the subscription trial afterwards).
The primary reason, therefore, I do not plan on subscribing at any time in the future to Logos' offerings is that I do not feel that paying a monthly subscription fee will give me anything significant beyond how I currently use Logos. I'd rather put that money towards specific resources that I have identified will best suit me.
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Mark Barnes (Logos) said:
We want to ensure that Logos meets the needs of everyone who wants to study the Bible. To help us make sure we're doing that as effectively as possible, would you take a minute to answer these two questions?
- Have you subscribed to the new version of Logos?
- Yes, I'm a current subscriber (or on the free trial)
- No, I tried it for a bit, but I didn't renew
- No, but I plan to get it reasonably soon
- No, and I'm undecided whether I'll get it
- No, and I plan not to get it
- What's the primary reason for your decision?
Please be honest. It's important to us that we understand how well (or not!) we're meeting your needs, so we want to understand what you really think.
Thanks!
1. Yes, I’m a current subscriber (Pro)
Primary Reasons: A combination of 1) intriguing new features, 2) replacing the large biannual upgrade payments with small monthly payments and 3) the Legacy Fall Back License.
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1 Yes, I'm a current subscriber (or on the free trial)
I subscribed purely because of the additional free book of the month program and the 5% extra discount.
Previously I've always focused on buying resources I wanted, including Legacy Libraries with resources I was interested in.
I found the previous model had too high an entry point and I couldn't see the value in the features, because they were unclear to me.
The new subscription based model is cheap enough for me to be interested - especially with the added benefits listed above.
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"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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I agree with the above. I would add that as a former Logos Now No Library subscriber this latest move is an improvement on this arrangement. I like the fact that you get a sizable discount when you buy a 2 yr subscription.Ralph Wood said:1. Yes, I’m a current subscriber (Pro)
Primary Reasons: A combination of 1) intriguing new features, 2) replacing the large biannual upgrade payments with small monthly payments and 3) the Legacy Fall Back License.
I am a budgeter and like the fact that I can pay once then watch the benefits accrue. I support the idea of one month free.
Meanwhile, Jesus kept on growing wiser and more mature, and in favor with God and his fellow man.
International Standard Version. (2011). (Lk 2:52). Yorba Linda, CA: ISV Foundation.
MacBook Pro MacOS Sequoia 15.2 1TB SSD
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I'm both #1 (on the free trial) and #4 (undecided if I'll subscribe).Mark Barnes (Logos) said:- Have you subscribed to the new version of Logos?
- Yes, I'm a current subscriber (or on the free trial)
- No, I tried it for a bit, but I didn't renew
- No, but I plan to get it reasonably soon
- No, and I'm undecided whether I'll get it
- No, and I plan not to get it
- What's the primary reason for your decision?
Simply put, my major concern is the loss of features if I have to stop subscribing, and loss of features means a loss in the value of the resources I've purchased.
Yes... as a L10 FFS owner, I qualify for the LFL after two years of uninterrupted subscription, but then what? What long-term feature benefits will subscribing beyond those first two years provide me unless a new LFL is granted every two years that includes the new features introduced during that time? I'm also disappointed that with the LFL, one loses online features. I can see losing high-cost AI features, but it seems like over the years, Faithlife has been growing more dependent on online features, which for me causes the LFL license to lose some of the appeal it would otherwise have even for those first two years.
But my concern also extends to my ability to recommend Logos to potential new customers who won't have any option to own features. Is the cost of Logos resources really worth it without the features needed to make full use of the resources?
There is one thing I feel in the dark about that might have a bearing on whether or not I will be able to recommend Logos to new users--i.e. what features are included in the basic/free version of Logos that I "assume" will always be available for future customers who have to stop subscribing. (I "assume" there will always be a basic/free version offered, otherwise library resources would be of zero value.) Since I don't know what features are included in the basic/free version of Logos, I can't take that into consideration when it comes to evaluating it's value, and recommending Logos to potential/new customers who only have the subscription option.0 -
2. No, I tried it for a bit, but didn't renew. I could not justify the added expense
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1. Yes I subscribe but thinking of pulling out. The experience that I have had this year with as a mobile user was not very pleasant. Most of the times when a update is released that fixed some things something else is broken on Logos. I have also been purchasing books that is logos edition that has study guide, with the purpose of the logos edition you should be able to answer the study question, but lately the books I have purchased in a series some of them had the option and then others did not. Then also some books had some Bible Scripture Hyperlinks missing. So not being able to use that function. So at the end paying for things that does not work as intended brings a big frustration in my Bible Study that just lets me keep going back to the normal old fashioned way of reading a physical Bible and book.
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I’m in Camp Number 1. As a previous Logos 10 owner, the price for upgrading didn’t feel any different than moving to another version of Logos. The AI features excited me, and I’m using search way more now than before. I personally love the AI features and wish they would go more in-depth with them. Having all the resources without an AI to search through them and give concise results feels like a big missed opportunity, so I’m glad we have something like that now. I do wish the AI was more conversational, but I suppose that might be something for the future. I appreciate the upgrade and hope Logos follows through on providing substantial updates more consistently with the subscription model.
The toolbar seems to be a hot topic, and I’m kind of indifferent to the new toolbar. My only opinion is, if it’s going to be part of the subscription, then they should allow people to choose which one they want to use. If it’s not going to be universal across Logos, at least allow people the choice.
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Mark Barnes (Logos) said:
- Have you subscribed to the new version of Logos?
- Yes, I'm a current subscriber (or on the free trial)
- What's the primary reason for your decision?
After beta testing the new tools I wanted to have access to them ongoing. I generally enjoy having the latest greatest in my tech products and bible software. As a person who loves to write about Bible software I also wanted to have access to all the tools to write about them and help others learn how to use them.
Dr. Kevin Purcell, Director of Missions
Brushy Mountain Baptist Association0 -
1. Yes, I'm a current subscriber (Pro)
Since I already was a FL Connect subscriber my subscription was automatically migrated to Logos Pro. The main reason for keeping my (Connect) subscription is the annual reward program.
I like having the latest features so I might consider subscribing to Logos Max once there is more information available (features included? how to move to a biannual payment? what is the best subscription for a multilingual Logos+Verbum library? etc.)
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That's good to hear from a power user such as yourself. Your support is justifying, at least it is for me.Kevin A. Purcell said:As a person who loves to write about Bible software I also wanted to have access to all the tools to write about them and help others learn how to use them.
Meanwhile, Jesus kept on growing wiser and more mature, and in favor with God and his fellow man.
International Standard Version. (2011). (Lk 2:52). Yorba Linda, CA: ISV Foundation.
MacBook Pro MacOS Sequoia 15.2 1TB SSD
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Yes, HJ. they still haven't directly addressed the population of users who are accustomed to switching across platforms (Logos/Verbum).HJ. van der Wal said:what is the best subscription for a multilingual Logos+Verbum library?
Meanwhile, Jesus kept on growing wiser and more mature, and in favor with God and his fellow man.
International Standard Version. (2011). (Lk 2:52). Yorba Linda, CA: ISV Foundation.
MacBook Pro MacOS Sequoia 15.2 1TB SSD
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Yes, I am a subscriber. The 5% sitewide discount on a product's pre-sale price is a big motivator for me. I feel the information marketing could be better here. For example, there could be a non-obtrusive, tiny info bubble at checkout that when hovered over/clicked on would say how many $$$ one would save on the purchase if one were a subscriber. These savings can be significant and could serve as a healthy motivator. Seriously, if people knew they would save more than a month's worth of subscription on a single purchase, it would make a lot of sense for them to subscribe and pocket the savings.
Other than that, I also enjoy the features. Though, I will admit, the start of this journey has been a bit scary for me. I do like the end result of what some of these recent features have been aiming to accomplish: making Logos easier to use. But getting there has been a rocky road. First, there was an insights sidebar that wouldn't stop haunting me (as far as I can tell, you've completely fixed this. Thank you!); then, there's a dynamic toolbar that I have a strong love/hate relationship with. I love it because (imo) it's a fantastic idea! Features are easier to find and access. Navigation is more intuitive. It feels like something I could introduce my never-tried-Logos-before friend to without hesitation. I hate it because some of my favorite features of the old toolbar just vanished. The ingenious, split-button design was replaced with a tiny oval that I literally have to concentrate on to click. I don't want to think about this point too long or I'll get worked up (I miss the split button [:(]). What has made the road scary is I keep wondering whether the efforts to make Logos more accessible for the masses will result in me having a less enjoyable time with it. If development on the dynamic toolbar were to stop today, I'd have to admit that this is the case. Hope and trust in the team keeps me optimistic (after all, my problems with insights are a distant memory at this point. It's a neat little feature, that one). I'm looking forward to the day when I don't have to wonder whether the next update will perhaps bring me undesirable features. I get that this dynamic (edit: seriously, no pun was intended here) must happen from time to time as the software grows. But it's been a lot lately.
Finally, this point from Rick is a big one for me:
Rick Ausdahl said:What long-term feature benefits will subscribing beyond those first two years provide me unless a new LFL is granted every two years that includes the new features introduced during that time? I'm also disappointed that with the LFL, one loses online features. I can see losing high-cost AI features, but it seems like over the years, Faithlife has been growing more dependent on online features, which for me causes the LFL license to lose some of the appeal it would otherwise have even for those first two years.
But my concern also extends to my ability to recommend Logos to potential new customers who won't have any option to own features. Is the cost of Logos resources really worth it without the features needed to make full use of the resources?I love the LFL and think the potential here is enormous. I understand everything would have to be priced out and optimized, but I think a permanent LFL option can be worked into every subscription. I feel that this option could help to create customer loyalty in a way that few businesses enjoy. And it would make recommending the product so much easier. After all, the idea of falling back to a bare-bones version of Logos after, say, 20+ years of subscribing is unpleasant. Even if one never stops subscribing, knowing that one is not trapped in the subscription is freeing.
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Aaron Hamilton said:
What has made the road scary is I keep wondering whether the efforts to make Logos more accessible for the masses will result in me having a less enjoyable time with it. If development on the dynamic toolbar were to stop today, I'd have to admit that this is the case.
I was reminded of our son's Scarry books! They were so cute. But back to your point, quite true. I view Logos as a tool, just like a great sewing machine, or our buzzy-bee saw outside (cuts everything in sight). Does a tool do the job good? Ok! No need for fancy, dancy. Just works.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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I am a subscriber mainly for access to new features, primarily AI summaries. I’ve used Logos since the 90s and I have a large library and full feature set. Because of what I already own I found the subscription price to be reasonable. I went with Max over Pro because I trust that Logos will make the difference worthwhile with upcoming features (as it is today Pro would meet my needs). Also, I wanted to support Logos going forward and continue to see advances and new features.
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Hi I am was a current subscriber of Logos and also use verbum
I just cancelled my subscriptions as I can't have both and there is no current development pathway for those of us that use both Logos and Verbum. I was even prepared to pay for two subscriptions.
So was I a subscriber? Yes (including the Verbum Now)
Am I still a subscriber? No
Dave
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I'm a current subscriber (Max) and plan to go with the two-year option as soon as it's available.
Reasons why I'm subscribing:
- I'm an early adopter, and would feel FOMO if I missed out on the latest and greatest. Not a great reason, but it's the truth.
- I find the AI features to be genuinely useful, especially Smart Search and summarizing texts. For example, I recently used an AI summary of Walton's lengthy retelling and analysis of creation myths to help communicate the big ideas to my congregation. Smart Search still has a ways to go - we can't search Bibles?????? - but it's still pretty nice.
- I anticipate more features over the next two years, and want to be locked in for the LFL. It's a bet on Logos actually bringing more features, but one I'm willing to make. The dynamic toolbar and lenses are two examples of features I'm glad to have now, and hope for their improvement in the future.
- The extra benefits - free book, 10% discount, books included with the subscription, and generous course offerings - make it a value on its own. I'm thankful to be at the place where $10/month (with my discount) is not a major financial commitment.
- I want to make sure Logos continues well into the future, and these tools are available for decades to come, both for me and for many others.
Reasons for hesitation:
- Deeply disappointed that folks new to Logos can't purchase a set of essential core features - I'm thinking especially of sermon editor, interlinear, and notes, for example - and be good to go. This makes it hard to encourage others to adopt Logos. The basic engine without a subscription lacks so much, and many folks are loathe to invest their time and resources into something they feel they'll be paying for forever, and never owning. I get it, but I already have talked with would-be new users that can't get over the hurdle.
- Going from Logos 10 to the not-actually-11-upgrade felt a bit underwhelming to me. Perhaps it's because I'm not using the AI-supported features enough. But if the subscription was just or the software updates, it doesn't feel worth it to me. Yet.
- Some basic features still haven't materialized, and I worry how the shift to incremental updates that are responsive to subscribers could further deprioritize some developments.
- I'm concerned about a bait-and-switch. Frankly, I feel Logos's current subscription offerings for FFS owners to be super-generous, a great value....and that concerns me. I worry that we'll face a squeeze after a while: Increased prices, reduced benefits, etc.
Overall, I'm all in on it! And for me, subscribing is a huge benefit, right now. I worry for those who don't have the FFS or feel like they can't afford the subscription. I'm here for the ride, and hope that this will actually broaden Logos's customer base in the coming years.
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First of all, thank you for being so in tune and responsive to us Logos users. Mark, you and the rest of the Logos crew have done a great job with the very difficult job of transitioning us into a new subscription system.
Yes I subscribed early. As mentioned previously by another responder, my main reason was FOMO [8-|] I also wanted to make absolutely sure I was locking in the lowest price possible. I am very happy with what I am getting as a Logos Pro user, but here are some of my favorite features:
- 5% discount across the whole Logos platform.
- The new dynamic toolbar! Wow! After some MP Seminar training on it, all my reservations went away.
- The AI sermon assistant. There are some times I was stuck for either how in the world to outline a passage I had already studied, or how to settle on a direction for illustrations. This tool breaks me free from the mental block. I do not let it write for me, but it does move me along nicely.
- The fact that I can look forward to some new tweak every 6 weeks. I love looking forward to and learning what new and exciting thing you come up with.
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Im really similar to Dru Lattin. I have the same hesitations, but I am a subscriber for similar reasons (Just not so much FOMO).
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I am a current subscriber (Pro, converted from FC). I may go with Max when the difference between Pro and Max are more noticeable. I will say, though, that I don't use lots of features. It's more about the books. Prime motivation, then, is probably FOMO.
My one concern going forward -- and others have expressed something like this for years, but now it's even more of an acute possibility -- is that from FL 's perspective, features that people are willing to pay for will take on new urgency from the development department. Thus, the importance of fixing what doesn't work correctly may diminish. Consider the list of things not working in the mobile app such as the inability to click links in footnote popups or the extreme lack of parity in the library between desktop and the mobile app. I could be wrong, but over time, the allure for FL to focus more on features that justify the subscription model may be hard to resist.
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Lew Worthington said:
I could be wrong, but over time, the allure for FL to focus more on features that justify the subscription model may be hard to resist.
Agree ... but from a non-subscriber POV .... they'll fix long-standing bugs (eg Text Comparison, Multiview and so on) but only as part of a 'major' fix ... subscribers only. I'm viewing L10 as WYSIWYG.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Mark Barnes (Logos) said:
We want to ensure that Logos meets the needs of everyone who wants to study the Bible. To help us make sure we're doing that as effectively as possible, would you take a minute to answer these two questions?
- Have you subscribed to the new version of Logos?
- Yes, I'm a current subscriber (or on the free trial)
- No, I tried it for a bit, but I didn't renew
- No, but I plan to get it reasonably soon
- No, and I'm undecided whether I'll get it
- No, and I plan not to get it
- What's the primary reason for your decision?
Please be honest. It's important to us that we understand how well (or not!) we're meeting your needs, so we want to understand what you really think.
Thanks!
1. (Verbum). I figure I may as well give the new tools a try.I just opted for monthly. If I feel it's not doing it for me, I can always cancel.
WIN 11 i7 9750H, RTX 2060, 16GB RAM, 1TB SSD | iPad Air 3
Verbum Max0 -
Mark Barnes (Logos) said:
We want to ensure that Logos meets the needs of everyone who wants to study the Bible. To help us make sure we're doing that as effectively as possible, would you take a minute to answer these two questions?
- Have you subscribed to the new version of Logos?
- Yes, I'm a current subscriber (or on the free trial)
- No, I tried it for a bit, but I didn't renew
- No, but I plan to get it reasonably soon
- No, and I'm undecided whether I'll get it
- No, and I plan not to get it
- What's the primary reason for your decision?
Please be honest. It's important to us that we understand how well (or not!) we're meeting your needs, so we want to understand what you really think.
Thanks!
#5 is my response. I have not subscribed, and I refuse to subscribe (absolutely no consideration of it at all). Why?
1. Faithlife chose to pursue a "get it all or get none of it" approach regarding new offerings, and I'm not happy about that. As someone who has used Logos software since the late 1990s, and as an owner of the L10 full-feature upgrade, the only thing I would have any consideration of is new features that are not dependent upon a subscription. The reason why is because I don't want any of the other offerings of a subscription (a.i. functions, rented books, etc.), and I refuse to even give them any consideration. A legacy fallback license was offered if you subscribe for 2 years. However, it isn't known in advance as to what ALL of those features are. I refuse to commit to such a subscription if I don't know all in advance that I'm getting specifically that I'll be able to keep after 2 years. To me, that's a financial gamble that I will not go along with because of not knowing if I will even want any of those features. I'm not going to pay for something in advance that I won't know until later on if I truly want it.
2. Faithlife chose to require a subscription if you want to purchase any of the 2025 bundled library packages. That's an absolute joke. I've purchased various previous bronze, silver and gold library package offerings, and now you're requiring a subscription to buy a 2025 library package offering? Come on Faithlife! I'm not going along with it.
It would have been wonderful if Faithlife chose to offer both subscriptions and owned feature upgrades separately, allowing each person to choose if they want to purchase either of them or both of them. But to bundle it all together, require a purchase for it all, and to no longer be able to pay for owned feature upgrades separately? Sorry, but Faithlife, you lost me on this.
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5. No, and I plan not to get it
- I am very consciously trying to minimize the number of ongoing subscriptions I take on. (That's not just Logos - early this year I chose DxO PhotoLab over Adobe Lightroom for photo processing solely because Adobe requires a subscription while PhotoLab has a purchase option.)
- I have little interest in the cloud-based AI features that are the focus of the new update.
- The ill-defined "AI credits" were the last straw on AI for me - I can't afford to become dependent on a feature that could potentially stop working for me mid-month simply because I ran out of credits.
- The libraries aren't particularly compelling for me this time.
- A general sense, based on these recent changes, that Logos is moving in a strategic direction where I will no longer be part of the target customer base. In other words, if Logos continues along its current trajectory, I question whether it will continue to be a good fit for me or whether I'll need to find another solution going forward.
- This is a minor factor, but the roll-out hasn't been great.
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