Visual Table of Contents

i'm working on a secondary Table of Contents for the wiki. Don't plan on replacing the existing one.

Thinking of calling it Visual Table of Contents. The page is just partially built.

Looking for feedback from users out there. So please take a look at it and let me know if this would be worth wild project.

thanks

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Simon’s Brother

i'm working on a secondary Table of Contents for the wiki. Don't plan on replacing the existing one.

Thinking of calling it Visual Table of Contents. The page is just partially built.

Looking for feedback from users out there. So please take a look at it and let me know if this would be worth wild project.

thanks

[H] [Y]....

Excellent Steve....

MJ. Smith

Thinking of calling it Visual Table of Contents.

Very clear and user friendly ... I suspect it will quickly become the favorite path into the wiki

Rosie Perera

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/170256#Comment_170256

Looks great! I had been intending to one day get around to returning to the Logos Visual Glossary project (based on some work that Damian and you had started. You might find some content on those two starter pages that it links to which will help you with your current Visual TOC. I had envisioned the visual glossary as something different than a TOC. It would be an alphabetical index with illustrations (e.g., a person could look up "command bar" and see what it looks like and where to find it on the screen). It would be a subset of the complete Alphabetical Glossary (which I also haven't had time to get back to).

Dave Hooton

Steve, (some of this may may be outside your control):-

having Other Features as a topic under Other Features in Logos4 is confusing. It would be better renaming the latter as it comes after 2 x Visual Table of Contents headings but I wonder why it is not another VTOC?
Top Menu (more info) could be removed as it doesn't add value/meaning to the content.
why are Files, Guides and Tools automatically a More topic?
VTOC - Layout needs to be vertical as the one horizontal line hides topics.

steve clark

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/170263#Comment_170263

my eyes are giving out, it is very later here.

having Other Features as a topic under Other Features in Logos4 is confusing.

Agreed, still need to gather in all the pages to see if this is even needed.

It would be better renaming the latter as it comes after 2 x Visual Table of Contents headings but I wonder why it is not another VTOC?

Not clear what you mean here, (maybe i just need to wait until tomorrow and re-read it)

Top Menu (more info) could be removed as it doesn't add value/meaning to the content.

It is useful since it de-marks (wiki makes a horz line) to help people visually see separate sub-topics.

why are Files, Guides and Tools automatically a More topic?

Each of these have a drop down menu in L4, so there are multiple places to link to which is impossible. So i automatically redirect to the more areas. Thought of other rows under them, but there are too many (e.g. Tools has 3 columns and multiple rows). So, since having More section to handle multiple pages (e.g. Search) seemed to work out for Files, Guides, & Tools.

VTOC - Layout needs to be vertical as the one horizontal line hides topics.

Are you referring to the table left line being missing under Layouts ?
Or are you referring to the horz line under that sub-topic (VTOC - Layout); not getting what is being hidden???

steve clark

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/170260#Comment_170260

You might find some content on those two starter pages that it links to which will help you with your current Visual TOC.

i will visit that page later and see if i understand what you are referring to.

I had envisioned the visual glossary as something different than a TOC. It would be an alphabetical index with illustrations (e.g., a person could look up "command bar" and see what it looks like and where to find it on the screen). It would be a subset of the complete Alphabetical Glossary (which I also haven't had time to get back to).

That might be difficult. The wiki scripting is very limiting (as compared to HTML, etc).

Been busy for the past week building Bible Word Study Guide, and the week before with Clippings. So i doubt that i would be tackling the Glossary. Besides you know what you want there [:)]

i can't stay up as late as you do, fixing to hit the sack. Thanks for your comments! i will reread them tomorrow and they will probably make more sense...lol.

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/170266#Comment_170266

VTOC - Layout needs to be vertical as the one horizontal line hides topics.

Are you referring to the table left line being missing under Layouts ?
Or are you referring to the horz line under that sub-topic (VTOC - Layout); not getting what is being hidden???

Rosie Perera

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/170269#Comment_170269

You might find some content on those two starter pages that it links to which will help you with your current Visual TOC.

i will visit that page later and see if i understand what you are referring to.

I was referring to Visual Glossary -- Home Page and Buttons and Menus, which are really more like visual tables of contents, not material I'd want to use in the VG.

I had envisioned the visual glossary as something different than a TOC. It would be an alphabetical index with illustrations (e.g., a person could look up "command bar" and see what it looks like and where to find it on the screen). It would be a subset of the complete Alphabetical Glossary (which I also haven't had time to get back to).

That might be difficult. The wiki scripting is very limiting (as compared to HTML, etc).

I wasn't thinking of doing anything tricky that would require HTML. Just text and graphics and hyperlinks directly to a particular bookmarked spot in a page. When I said the VG list would be a subset of the AG list, I just meant that all of the items in the VG would be repeated in the AG list and the AG list would be longer. No HTML wizardry there. Have to resort to good old human synchronization if I add something to the VG (would have to add it to the AG as well).

Been busy for the past week building Bible Word Study Guide, and the week before with Clippings.

Those both look excellent! I'm looking forward to the Exegetical Guide and Customizing the BWS Guide, which it looks like you've got plans for.

So i doubt that i would be tackling the Glossary. Besides you know what you want there

I wasn't hinting that I was expecting you to. Sorry if it sounded that way. I really do want to get to it, as I have a plan for it. I've just been swamped.

Robert Pavich

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/170276#Comment_170276

Very very nice, Steve....

steve clark

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/170352#Comment_170352

OK, the page is up. Sorry the link in the OP doesn't work, but the one below will work (and hopefully won't be changed). The New link is now on the wiki home page next to the link to the original TOC.

Visual Table of Contents

i built this page with several thoughts in mind.

Make it simple for new users to find wiki pages on what they need.
Consolidate links for all wiki pages into one Table of Contents.
It seemed unusual to me that a TOC would only have some of the links and not all of them.
To arrange links in a fashion which hopefully would help the user find things which are not intuitive.
e.g. Reverse Interlinear, Sympathetic highlighting, and such which don't fall under a menu category.

Problems with new TOC

The parent linking in wiki pages will not go back to this new page. Due to the way the wiki scripting works it needs specific parent page entered in each wiki page.

For the time being i think it best to leave the Home and old TOC in tact. So to resolve this issue i am going to add/change a link which occurs on the right side of pages that i've built to the new VTOC. The parent link at the top will still function properly for those who jumped off from the original TOC. User would have to scrolled to the top of a page anyway to get to the parent link. Now if they want to get back to the VTOC, they just need to view to the right and click that link instead.

For pages that others have made, this will not work unless a link is added. It may be a don't care anyway if users mostly used the back button anyway.

Milford Charles Murray

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/170543#Comment_170543

Peace to you, Steve! And Joy!

Absolutely superb!

Thank you for serving the Lord and His People on the Forums through you dedicated efforts!

*smile*

steve clark

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/170544#Comment_170544

Peace to you, Steve! And Joy!

Thank you for the blessing and encouragement Sir!
May our Lord richly bless you in every way!

Todd Phillips

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/170547#Comment_170547

Thumbs up [Y], Steve! Thanks for the work!

Rosie Perera

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/170554#Comment_170554

Thanks for all that work, Steve. This is awesome!

I'm concerned about the duplication of significant chunks of info from the regular TOC page verbatim -- all the non-visual stuff. It's likely to get out of sync and require extra work to maintain as new wiki content is added (people would have to know to add the link in both TOC pages). It's really unnecessary to have it in the Visual TOC because it's not something people will look for based on the visual layout of the program. What do you think about removing the duplicated stuff and keeping VTOC a purely visual reference?

Also, are you still planning to hook up the links under "Visual Table of Contents – Home Page"? Currently they are not links. I wasn't sure if you're finished with the page or still working on it.

steve clark

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/170560#Comment_170560

What do you think about removing the duplicated stuff and keeping VTOC a purely visual reference?

Sorry, i strongly think having all links available in this VTOC is a must!
its my guess that the older TOC will eventually become outdated.
i will keep an eye out for new additions in the original TOC and port them over.
Edit: i hope others will add their links to the VTOC as well, if they miss it, i will port it for them.

Also, are you still planning to hook up the links under "Visual Table of Contents – Home Page"? Currently they are not links. I wasn't sure if you're finished with the page or still working on it.

The menu Home and the Home page icons both take you to Visual Glossary page.
The more button under the Menu Home icon takes you to other Home page links. I probably need to active the more button under the Home page icon to go to that same list of links. Is this what you are referring to? If not, please help me understand.

Edit: i believe that all the links in the wiki Home and the original TOC are incorporated into the VTOC, thus having a full table of contents to wiki pages. (i did leave out one link for help not working with version 4.0a, its obsolete)

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/170563#Comment_170563

Sorry, i strongly think having all links available in this VTOC is a must!
its my guess that the older TOC will eventually become outdated

Agreed

Rosie Perera

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/170563#Comment_170563

What do you think about removing the duplicated stuff and keeping VTOC a purely visual reference?

Sorry, i strongly think having all links available in this VTOC is a must!
its my guess that the older TOC will eventually become outdated.
i will keep an eye out for new additions in the original TOC and port them over.

OK, OK. I don't feel strongly about it. I see your logic now, and you've convinced me.

Also, are you still planning to hook up the links under "Visual Table of Contents – Home Page"? Currently they are not links. I wasn't sure if you're finished with the page or still working on it.

I probably need to active the more button under the Home page icon to go to that same list of links. Is this what you are referring to? If not, please help me understand.

Yes, I was referring to all the more links under Home Page; I wasn't sure what they were supposed to link to or I would have added the links for you. And I thought the textual items (Home Page Overview, Preferred Bible, etc.) were supposed to be links too, but now I see they are just the labels of the visual elements above them, both in the Menu section and the Home Page section. I didn't realize the images were links, in either Menu or Home Page sections. There's no visual clue that they are anything other than illustrations. So people might still expect to be able to click on the labels below the icons. I can turn them into links if you want (I'd just link them up to the same thing that the icon above them is pointing too). But this is your baby, so I won't mess with it if you prefer not to have them be links, or if you're still making changes and I might clash with your changes.

steve clark

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/170569#Comment_170569

I didn't realize the images were links, in either Menu or Home Page sections.

the only line of text above the tables, tells the people to click on the images.

I can turn them into links if you want (I'd just link them up to the same thing that the icon above them is pointing too).

since i am still tweeking things in the page, i will do it. Thanks tho!

Edit: i've already added your new link to User's Voice. see the last entry under General in Useful Info for Logos4

Edit2: the beauty of how our wiki works it that anyone wanting to use it as they have been using it will not be affected. So this new page is pretty much benign in how it affects users.

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/170543#Comment_170543

i built this page with several thoughts in mind.

Make it simple for new users to find wiki pages on what they need.

Consolidate links for all wiki pages into one Table of Contents.
It seemed unusual to me that a TOC would only have some of the links and not all of them.

To arrange links in a fashion which hopefully would help the user find things which are not intuitive.

2. This was obvious to me - I think you noticed the link for Customizing a Guide that I added.

3. The horizontal stretch of the VTOC's and vertical columns of Videos is too "visually busy" for me + the graphics contrast between VTOC Menu and VTOC Home Page. I much prefer the simpler visuals and predominantly vertical arrangement of the current TOC.

steve clark

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/170575#Comment_170575

2. This was obvious to me - I think you noticed the link for Customizing a Guide that I added.

Yes Sir, i noticed that you move an older page to make it more obvious (thought that was a great idea). Would like me to tag that link in the VTOC to show new as you tagged it in the original TOC?

3. The horizontal stretch of the VTOC's and vertical columns of Videos is too "visually busy" for me + the graphics contrast between VTOC Menu and VTOC Home Page. I much prefer the simpler visuals and predominantly vertical arrangement of the current TOC.

Well there is no problem with keep using the original TOC, as i expect it will be there for a loooooooong time. There has not been a lot of changes in the original TOC (mostly what i've been adding, although there are a few other who have added to it in the past months). And due to its function as mostly to mimic the menu layout in L4, there is not likely to be a lot of changes (but i could be wrong, it wouldn't be the 1st time...lol).

Just out of curiosity, what pixel size is your monitor set to? What is the size of your monitor?
It doesn't compute well in my mind that the graphic contrast between the VTOC Menu and the VTOC Home Page would be a problem, the graphics were captured right off L4. But i'm sure that what you are telling me is just not registering properly (lol).

As always, i appreciate your opinion and critique. Thank you for all that you do!

steve clark

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/170580#Comment_170580

This morning, went through the View All Pages of the wiki and added links from there to the Visual Table of Contents wiki page.

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/170580#Comment_170580

Just out of curiosity, what pixel size is your monitor set to? What is the size of your monitor?
It doesn't compute well in my mind that the graphic contrast between the VTOC Menu and the VTOC Home Page would be a problem, the graphics were captured right off L4. But i'm sure that what you are telling me is just not registering properly (lol).

The visual impression has improved since my last post, though i have to use a wider window than normal. Perhaps the height of the Video rows could be reduced to match that of the Top Menu items that follow. Keep up the good work!