Sour Grapes

Dan Sheppard

I lead a Bible study, which is currently studying Matthew.

The question came up, about the Nazirites (John the Baptizer) and not drinking wine.

The issue really, was not wine per se, but even disallowing the eating of grapes.

What resource(s) might be helpful, to explain the issue of eating grapes, in contrast to drinking fermented wine?

Find more posts tagged with

Comments

Mark Smith

Numbers 6:3-4 proscribes all grape products during the time period of a Nazarite/Nazirite vow.

Some suggestions from various resources:

"Some scholars see in the Nazirite vow a refutation of the influence of the Canaanite nature religions. Certainly the prohibition against the products of the vine may be linked to the excesses encouraged by wine and strong drink (Lev. 10:8–11; cf. Gen. 9:20–21; Prov. 20:1; Hos. 4:11)."

Myers, A. C. (1987). The Eerdmans Bible dictionary (752). Grand Rapids, Mich.: Eerdmans.

"He was to abstain from the fruit of the vine in any form, a prohibition that worked some hardship in a land where clean water was scarce and fermented drinks were the normal adult beverage. Yet this regulation alone made for distinctiveness in a cultural environment where alcoholism was an extremely serious social problem, and could leave no doubt as to the status of the Nazirite. It also recaptured the stern life-style followed by the desert nomads of the wilderness period, and contrasted it forcibly with the far less rigorous sedentary life in Canaan, with its attendant moral temptations."

Bromiley, G. W. (1988; 2002). Vol. 3: The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia, Revised (501–502). Wm. B. Eerdmans.

"Once a person decided to make himself “holy to the Lord” (Num. 6:8) for some special service, he then agreed to abstain from wine. This prohibition was so strict that it included grapes, grape juice, and raisins. Perhaps this was to guard the Nazirite from being controlled by any spirit other than God’s (Prov. 20:1; Eph. 5:17–18)."

Youngblood, R. F., Bruce, F. F., Harrison, R. K., & Thomas Nelson Publishers. (1995). Nelson's new illustrated Bible dictionary. Nashville: T. Nelson.

Dan Sheppard

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/174101#Comment_174101

Thank you, Mark!

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/174101#Comment_174101

in a cultural environment where alcoholism was an extremely serious social problem

This caught my attention because I'd not run into it in cultural background type books. Doing a search of my Logos library didn't help much - I'm light on cultural materials because of prioritizing what I don't have on paper over replacement for paper. Can you provide some cultural history type resources expressing this? Thanks.

Note: http://www.dartmouth.edu/~dcare/topics/jewish.html provides an interesting backdrop.

Mark Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/174125#Comment_174125

Can you provide some cultural history type resources expressing this?

That statement was a bit surprising to me. I suppose I had assumed the opposite of this. I will have to see if there is anything I can turn up that would support this statement.

Rosie Perera

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/174138#Comment_174138

This isn't necessarily relevant to your question but the subject line of your thread reminded me of it. The phrase "sour grapes" appears in Jeremiah 31:29-30 ("In those days people will no longer say,

‘The parents have eaten sour grapes,
and the children’s teeth are set on edge.’

Instead, everyone will die for their own sin; whoever eats sour grapes—their own teeth will be set on edge.")

and Ezekiel 18:2 ("What do you people mean by quoting this proverb about the land of Israel:

‘The parents eat sour grapes,
and the children’s teeth are set on edge’?")

Thus there must have been an even older proverb about sour grapes, before the time of Jeremiah, that Jeremiah was quoting and Ezekiel was also quoting the Lord quoting the people quoting.

Our proverbial expression "sour grapes" means something different, of course, and comes from Aesop's fable about the fox and the grapes.

We had a grape vine in our back yard when I was growing up, and the grapes that grew on it were tiny and very tart. Too sour for eating. So I know what "sour grapes" taste like from experience. Maybe we could have made wine out of them if we'd wanted to, but we didn't know anything about viniculture or oenology.

Chris Thompson

Gill's has this to say:

"nor eat moist grapes or dried; which have somewhat of the nature and taste of wine, and produce some of the like effects, and may lead to a desire after drinking it; wherefore this, as other things mentioned, are, as Aben Ezra says, a kind of an hedge, to keep at a distance from drinking wine."

Keil and Delitzsch makes this observation:

"Vinegar, fresh and dried grapes, and food prepared from grapes and raisins, e.g., raisin-cakes, are not intoxicating; but grape-cakes, as being the dainties sought after by epicures and debauchees, are cited in Hosea 3:1 as a symbol of the sensual attractions of idolatry, a luxurious kind of food, that was not in harmony with the solemnity of the worship of Jehovah. The Nazarite was to avoid everything that proceeded from the vine, because its fruit was regarded as the sum and substance of all sensual enjoyments."

The grape issue is a molehill, as far as i'm concerned, compared to the opinion that the locusts John ate were grasshoppers. I prefer to believe that it was the pods (or beans) of a locust tree. So on to another search/adventure. [:D]

Milford Charles Murray

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/174125#Comment_174125

in a cultural environment where alcoholism was an extremely serious social problem

This caught my attention because I'd not run into it in cultural background type books. Doing a search of my Logos library didn't help much - I'm light on cultural materials because of prioritizing what I don't have on paper over replacement for paper. Can you provide some cultural history type resources expressing this? Thanks.

Note: http://www.dartmouth.edu/~dcare/topics/jewish.html provides an interesting backdrop.

Thanks for that link, MJ! *smile*

Speaking of Cultural History and Cultural Passages, PLEASE NOTE, EVERYONE! Today is the shipping date for the following:

If you have not ordered, and still act quickly, you can save a heap of money!

Peace to you!