Jehovah's Witnesses and Christadelphians
I have two friends, one is a Jehovah's Witness (JW from now, no slight intened) and the other a Christadelphian. All three of us (they don't know eachother) seem to hit on the topic of the 'immortality of the soul.' I'm not quite sure how to broach a study with them. Is it better to begin by studying/researching prior to talking with each of them; 1) the image of God, 2) the creation of man, 3) death, 4) the soul, 5) the resurrection, 6,) heaven/hell or what?
I think the best approach is to come at it with a systematically. But I'm a bit stuck on a starting point for my reseach.
Any suggestions??
Comments
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Logic is not the final answer in dealing with diverse theological positions. All theological positions for the most part are logical and consistent. Persons having both of the theologies you mention own Logos software, so we need to be courteous (I am not suggesting you were not being courteous). I would begin by making sure I accurately understand their positions and bathe my research in prayer.
"For the kingdom of God does not consist in words but in power"
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Let assume that I know both (the WT & Christadelphian) theological views and continue to bathe my research in prayer, what would you suggest then?0
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Apologetics is not one of my strong points and I am sure there are forum users more qualified than I to answer your question. I guess I would read/obtain a book like Handbook of Christian Apologetics or Pocket Dictionary of Apologetics and Philosophy of Religion and start there, perhaps looking for bibliography there. I didn't come up with a way to automatically create a collection of apologetics resources in Logos, so I put them in there by hand. I suppose one could then search appropriate themes in that collection.
"For the kingdom of God does not consist in words but in power"
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Milkman said:
Let assume that I know both (the WT & Christadelphian) theological views and continue to bathe my research in prayer, what would you suggest then?
There are cheap price books in Logos available ,I think it is not bad ,if you read them, to be more aware what the Jehovah's witness have to say against the Truth of the Scripture ,based on their error massage .
Blessings in Christ.
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If it were me, I'd do this:
1.) Ask them to show you what they believe on this topic and why...that's a good start (I know you know but just ask....
) Ask LOTS of questions, probe...have them explain...2.) Do a search in Logos for "immortality NEAR soul" and similar to get some background AND take a look ((In Logos) at their passages and proofs; that should keep you busy for a long time)
3.) Examine their arguments; are they consistent? Is their hermeneutic consistent? this is the area in which we find errors....
And lastly but most important...trust God for the outcome and the reception of your points...don't stress (not that you are)
Robert Pavich
For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__
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Start where Jesus started -- himself. Jesus said that all of Scripture pointed to himself, so rather than chasing after potential rabbit trails, I think it might be useful to start with who Jesus is, who we are, and why Jesus came. In doing so, you'll encounter a host of hermeneutic issues. It's likely that these presuppositions underlie their notions of the soul.
-- Richard
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Peace to you!
Also do a bit of "gentle" and "friendly" listening without jumping in to prove your point right away. Threat your friends with the love and respect that probably made them your friends in the first place
Also, do not assume that the official teachings of the various organisations that you mentioned are also what your friends believe in their own heart and soul and mind. (You might also test yourself over against your own church's teachings! *smile* )
Familiarise yourself with their "groups" official teachings yourself so that you can respond intelligently to their comments and needs.
Logos has lots and lots of helps.
Philippians 4: 4 Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, Rejoice. 5 Let your reasonableness be known to everyone. The Lord is at hand..........
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Robert Pavich said:
3.) Examine their arguments; are they consistent? Is their hermeneutic consistent? this is the area in which we find errors....
Christadelphians, in particular, stress that their beliefs are based on the Bible, and they accept that it is inspired by God. So, yes, use the Bible as the authority behind what you say. Of course, it all comes down to how you interpret it then. Jesus showed on several occasions that it should be understood in a simple way consistent with the history and grammar and destroyed the false ideas of those in His day.
"For the kingdom of God does not consist in words but in power"
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Milford Charles Murray said:
Peace to you!
Also do a bit of "gentle" and "friendly" listening without jumping in to prove your point right away. Threat your friends with the love and respect that probably made them your friends in the first place
Also, do not assume that the official teachings of the various organisations that you mentioned are also what your friends believe in their own heart and soul and mind. (You might also test yourself over against your own church's teachings! *smile* )
Familiarise yourself with their "groups" official teachings yourself so that you can respond intelligently to their comments and needs.
Logos has lots and lots of helps.
Great points, Charles. And yes, as someone else mentioned, this forum is populated by diverse backgrounds. I certainly know Christadelphians on this forum.
As for a scriptural debate being fruitful or not: I have read a Logos book (I am not sure which one it is off hand--I have several by David Reed and Robert Morey) that cautions against such an approach. It recommended taking a more subtle, but consistent exposure of the inconsistencies of the Watchtower Society itself as a way to open a Jehovah's Witness' mind.
I like Apples. Especially Honeycrisp.
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One doesn't have to be a JW or Christadelphian to question the traditional Christian line on the immortality of the soul.
I'm a card-carrying evangelical and the NT data itself convinced me a long time ago that immortality is in fact a gift of God to the redeemed, not an inherent feature of every human being. All will, of course, be raised for judgment at the last day, but that doesn't necessarily mean that all will live for ever in either a blessed or cursed situation. One other point: 'conditional immortality', as it's usually called, has a bearing on one's view of hell.
I suggest you do a search on the phrase 'conditional immortality' for starters.
I believe JWs and Christadelphians to be in error on a good number of doctrinal issues, but I have found it is wise not to reject everything they believe just because some things are not acceptable. Treat your friends with great graciousness and remain open to the possibility that, in spite of their denominational allegiance, their names may in fact be in the Book of Life. Our God is a lot more gracious than most of us tend to be!
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Milkman said:
I think the best approach is to come at it with a systematically.
1. I'm confused - you use the term "study" which everyone seems to interpret as "apologetics". I find it most effect when a "study" is a "study" - an exchange of ideas and tracing the assumptions behind the ideas.
2. I don't agree with the idea that logic is not the way to convince. There are a few principles that cannot be proven by logic - they can only be shown to be reasonable. But from those principles everything else follows. This is a long standing view of the church under the title "natural theology".
3. I would use Logos in two ways - one to trace back to the roots, my own beliefs; the other to use Christadelphian and JW resources to trace their beliefs back to their roots. I don't know how many such resources exist for Logos - their not among the groups I've had reason to consider.
4. Finally, I would look at the historical development of the six elements you picked out over the last two thousand years using searches on my Logos resources reflecting the history of theology.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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I guess in reading through this thread one last thought came to mind....
Remember, they are your friends...and they will remain so, just speak the truth in love...
Robert Pavich
For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__
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After reading through all your suggestions I appreciate the advice. I will go slowly, gently, humbly and listen with the ear of Christ. I do treasure these men and will begin to read up with an open and sincere heart. I know the Lord loves these guys just as much as He loves me, so with this in mind I begin something that I hope will be Christ-honouring.
I appreciate all the advice. By the way, Did anybody catch that great Ryder Cup this morning? Of course being the milkman I listened to it via XM Radio from 4Am till I got home and quickly walked the dog and caught the last hour or so.
Blessings.
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Milkman said:
I have two friends, one is a Jehovah's Witness
JW's have faith in the Watch Tower as God's channel of communication and therefore the true interpreter of Scripture. Unless you undermine that faith with evidence that the Watch Tower is not beyond question as an accurate trustworthy source, all your logic and citing of biblical verses will mainly convince JW's they need to study harder to learn the answers to your points.
How to Rescue Your Loved One from the Watch Tower is invaluable for developing a strategy in dealing with JW's. The author is a former JW and he includes reprints of Watch Tower publications that are real eye openers that can be printed out and used for discussion. (You can print in L3 until L4.1 is released.)
Milkman, do you have a dairy farm?
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Scott S said:
Unless you undermine that faith
I suspect this thread has already overstepped the boundary into theological issues, but when I read things like this I inwardly cringe. Can any church claim that they have never made mistakes?
It's ironic, and worthy of sober consideration, that many of the posters on this forum enjoy, and would vehemently defend, their freedom to study Scripture and yet belong to a church that, 500 or so years ago, would have persecuted and even executed them for doing so.
However much I may disagree with someone's beliefs I would never try to undermine their faith. And that their church organization may have made mistakes is hardly a valid argument for leaving it - none of us would belong to a faith if that were the criteria for judging it.
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Andy, what you may fail to realize or just may not know, is that the JW's utterly fail the "prophet test" in Deuteronomy 18:22. Then you add in the Watchtower Society's (WTS) blatant and willful mis-translating Scripture (track down a Kingdom Interliner New Testament to see what I mean). This is not an organization that makes "mistakes", it is an organization that willfully twists and distorts Scripture.
As to studying Scripture, the WTS teaches it's members that they will fall into apostasy if they ONLY read the Bible. Their teachings state that ONLY through the WTS teachings can you avoid doctrinal error. If this isn't "adding to Scripture" I don't know what is.
What the WTS teaches is not "mistakes" but another gospel entirely, and Paul has some strong words about that in Galatians 1:6-9.
And yes, I will admit that I do have some bias here, I came to faith in Jesus while trying to get my wife out of this cult (He did rescue her, all praise to Him!). Standing idly by and not warning others of the eternal dangers of the WTS teachings is spiritual assisted-suicide. If you love someone, you will warn them of things that will kill them.
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Eric
I don't think that I could specifically respond to your post without violating forum guidelines - something I try to avoid. I would imagine the specifics in your post are also too theological for here as well.
I was merely commenting that trying to break someone's faith (whether I think it's misplaced or not) is not an I approach I would choose to pursue.
Most religions argue that their way is 'right'. Many religions take the stand that their interpretation is correct and that others are not and not a few have a hierarchy that 'decides' on 'truth' - for example the Pope is regarded by Catholics as being infallible and his word is, effectively, their truth. Here in England, the Church of England's Synod decides on what is 'truth' for the C of E and so forth. And are all these 'truths' 100% Biblical? Although these organisations don't say it now, at least not openly, undoubtedly there was a time when they also said 'ONLY if you believe what we teach' can you be saved. And it's an historical fact that dissenters used to face horrific consequences.
Anyway, my reason for posting was neither to attack or defend any belief or religion, but to point out that just about all organised religions have committed what I will call 'mistakes'. Whether or not those mistakes are blatant and wilful is a judgement I cannot make, not on a public forum anyway. Although it is hard to merely label the persecution and execution of people like Tyndale, to whom we owe so much, a 'mistake'...
Andy
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@Eric and Andy:
Both of your responses are very passionate and I would say quite respectful, and yet (as you are aware) teetering on sending this touchy topic over the cliff--even if it were at the hands/typing fingers of others who take up your arguments. I love great discussion--and I'd love to be in the UK with Andy and (Eric--unless you live in a cooler place than the UK, then we could meet there, lol) go at it. But, alas, this forum is neither by guidelines, nor by medium, the place for taking this further. I hope you can understand that, and just leave what is said already, lay.
I am biting my own tongue to respond more [:#], i hope it won't be too big a deal for either of you, too. God's blessings, truth, and grace to you both.
I like Apples. Especially Honeycrisp.
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Dan
Agreed. It is hard to know where to draw the line :-) When I first responded to this thread I told myself 'you'll end up regretting it'. So, apologies if I've offended anyone - certainly not my intention.
Andy
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As others have already said, our approach to proclaiming the truth of Christ needs to be bathed in prayers and with humility and love. For Milkman, I pray for opportunities to discuss the real issues of life with his friends, with boldness and conviction of the Holy Spirit.
Often times, the gospel of Jesus Christ is sugar coated because we are afraid to offend someone. Well, remember, they are going to be offended when they stand before the Lord of hosts, where every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus is Lord!
IMHO, I think one reason why these other beliefs (especially Islam) have cropped up like weeds in America is because we have not been vocal and bold enough to proclaim the resurrection of our Lord. And for the record, I also speak for myself as a member of the guilty party.
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Eric Ruhnow said:
As to studying Scripture, the WTS teaches it's members that they will fall into apostasy if they ONLY read the Bible. Their teachings state that ONLY through the WTS teachings can you avoid doctrinal error. If this isn't "adding to Scripture" I don't know what is.
References please: Where in the WTS does is so state that "they will fall into apostasy if they ONLY read the Bible" Year or volume, issue or month and page number - Thanks
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David Ames said:Eric Ruhnow said:
As to studying Scripture, the WTS teaches it's members that they will fall into apostasy if they ONLY read the Bible. Their teachings state that ONLY through the WTS teachings can you avoid doctrinal error. If this isn't "adding to Scripture" I don't know what is.
References please: Where in the WTS does is so state that "they will fall into apostasy if they ONLY read the Bible" Year or volume, issue or month and page number - Thanks
I ran a search on "Watchtower NEAR Apostasy" with 8 results in 4 articles in 3 resources. Here is one of them:
From very early in its history the organization has portrayed the Bible as worthless without Watchtower study aids to accompany it:
… not only do we find that people cannot see the divine plan in studying the Bible by itself, but we see, also, that if anyone lays the SCRIPTURE STUDIES aside and goes to the Bible alone, although he has understood his Bible for ten years, our experience shows that within two years he goes into darkness. On the other hand, if he had merely read the SCRIPTURE STUDIES with their references, and had not read a page of the Bible, as such, he would be in the light at the end of the two years (The Watch Tower, 9/15/10, p. 298).
This explains why you can not simply quote from the Bible and reach the mind and heart of a fully indoctrinated Jehovah’s Witness. He or she does not dare look at the Bible alone, without the guidance of Watchtower publications. Doing so might lead to apostasy, which JWs redefine as the most deadly sin of turning away from God by rejecting “God’s organization.”
David A. Reed, How to Rescue Your Loved One from the Watchtower (electronic ed.; Grand Rapids: Baker Book House, 1997), 42.I like Apples. Especially Honeycrisp.
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Although not available in Logos, a nice review of the teachings of the JW is found in the late Walter Martin's book The Kingdom of the Cults, published by Bethany House.
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Milkman said:
I have two friends, one is a Jehovah's Witness (JW from now, no slight intened) and the other a Christadelphian. All three of us (they don't know eachother) seem to hit on the topic of the 'immortality of the soul.' I'm not quite sure how to broach a study with them. Is it better to begin by studying/researching prior to talking with each of them; 1) the image of God, 2) the creation of man, 3) death, 4) the soul, 5) the resurrection, 6,) heaven/hell or what?
I think the best approach is to come at it with a systematically. But I'm a bit stuck on a starting point for my reseach.
Any suggestions??
There is a book titled Immortality of the Soul by Oscar Cullmann I would suggest as a good starting point. I don't believe Logos publishes this work but if you're looking for a good starting point for this discussion this book will provide that for you. It might even challenge some of your own beliefs. I don't personally endorse every viewpoint in the book but it's a healthy, systematic exercise on the subject. And for a scholarly work it's a quick read!
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Hey Scott,
Thanks for the reply. I have the book "How to Rescue..." and that seems like a good place to start. I don't have a dairy farm. I pick up my milk from a dairy in the city and deliver to my home service customers.
I've enjoyed the conversations in this forum and I agree it's time to lay this puppy to sleep. Lots of good suggestions and a little misunderstandings as well. Thanks again.
the milkman - "got milk?"
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Hi David, I thought this might help and maybe, if you know better, could see if this does say that only reading the Bible without WT helps would lead to reverting back to a faith without being involved in the WT Organization. This article is from the WatchTower 1981 edition article entitled "The Way Of Escape" electronic edition 2007. It does seem to imply that only reading the Bible will teach you to believe like a Baptist, Mennonite, Anglican or any other Community of Faith that believes it follows the Word. I fully understand that if one chooses to become a Witness and remain a Witness, then it only seems logical that he/she would not only read the Bible/New World Translation, but also adhere to the way a Kingdom Hall "does business."
It just seems like the WT has to put their own spin on things so that it's people believe so differently than an aweful lot of others.
In serving Jehovah “shoulder to shoulder,” we need, as Zephaniah so often emphasizes, to cultivate the quality of meekness. When we make mistakes, as all imperfect humans do, let us be ready to acknowledge them, even as the “faithful and discreet slave,” made up of imperfect fleshly men, has had to make corrections. However, let us never be critical of the grand body of truth that Jehovah has built up among his united people over the past 100 years, and which, by correction and adjustment, has come to shine ever more brightly on “the path of the righteous ones.”—Prov. 4:18.
14 From time to time, there have arisen from among the ranks of Jehovah’s people those who, like the original Satan, have adopted an independent, faultfinding attitude. They do not want to serve “shoulder to shoulder” with the worldwide brotherhood. (Compare Ephesians 2:19-22.) Rather, they present a “stubborn shoulder” to Jehovah’s words. (Zech. 7:11, 12) Reviling the pattern of the “pure language” that Jehovah has so graciously taught his people over the past century, these haughty ones try to draw the “sheep” away from the one international “flock” that Jesus has gathered in the earth. (John 10:7-10, 16) They try to sow doubts and to separate unsuspecting ones from the bounteous “table” of spiritual food spread at the Kingdom Halls of Jehovah’s Witnesses, where truly there is ‘nothing lacking.’ (Ps. 23:1-6) They say that it is sufficient to read the Bible exclusively, either alone or in small groups at home. But, strangely, through such ‘Bible reading,’ they have reverted right back to the apostate doctrines that commentaries by Christendom’s clergy were teaching 100 years ago, and some have even returned to celebrating Christendom’s festivals again, such as the Roman Saturnalia of December 25! Jesus and his apostles warned against such lawless ones0 -
hey dan,
How do you copy, using Snagit and paste into a forum?
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Let me try this again.0 -
Milkman said:
hey dan,
How do you copy, using Snagit and paste into a forum?
if you are referring to the excerpt above, I just highlighted the text, right-clicked, and selected "copy." I pasted it directly into my reply. Then I went back to Logos, used the pulldown menu from the top left corner of that resource's panel, and selected "copy location as URL". then I went back to my forum reply (still 'in progress'), selected the resource title, clicked on the "edit/insert link" symbol (the chain), and in the "link url" box, I pasted the URL link I got from the Logos resource, and clicked "insert." That last step helps anyone with that resource in Logos to go straight to it.
As for copying screen captures, I use "Snipping Tool" that comes with Win 7. I know a lot of poeple love Snagit, i just don't have it.
I like Apples. Especially Honeycrisp.
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Milkman said:
I don't have a dairy farm. I pick up my milk from a dairy in the city and deliver to my home service customers.
Cool! We still have a (non-functional) metal box/door built into our 1950's era home for the milkman to put the milk bottles!
I spent my hs years as a dairy farm kid. When I brought my college friends home, they weren't too happy when I woke them up at the crack of dawn to "meet the milkman" (the truck driver) who was a friend of mine . . . [|-)]
I like Apples. Especially Honeycrisp.
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Dan DeVilder said:
We still have a (non-functional) metal box/door built into our 1950's era home
We didn't have one as I was growing up and in the winter sometimes the milk would freeze and pop the top, if we didn't get to it in time.
"For the kingdom of God does not consist in words but in power"
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I've got one customer who has that little door. She's about 100 years old and leaves me little notes once and a while, then she'll call me and tell me the same thing the note had on it [:)]
The house I grew up in had a door as well and we kids would climb through it all the time, pretty cool thing to do when your skinny. Not any more. Yep, it's a great job and since I/we own the business even better, however the guy I work for can be quite demanding sometimes, especially when he doesn't get enough shut eye.
Have a great day!
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Milkman said:
Hi David, I thought this might help and maybe, if you know better, could see if this does say that only reading the Bible without WT helps would lead to reverting back to a faith without being involved in the WT Organization.
I understand the article to mean that if you read just the Bible, it will lead you astray from the teachings of Charles Taze Russell, founder of JW and original publisher of The Watch Tower. It states that those who read the Bible would revert "right back to the apostate doctrines that commentaries by Christendom's clergy were teaching 100 years ago..."
According to JW, such "apostate doctrines" by those who are misled by the Bible include the belief in:
1. eternal torment, or hell.
2. the human soul as an eternal entity
3. Deity of Christ
4. Triune nature of God
5. Physical resurrection of Christ
6. Physical return of Christ
7. Atonement of Christ at the Cross
And many other beliefs.
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I would really appreciate it if this thread was killed. If a Jehovah's Witness or Christadelphian wishes to state what they believe in this thread, I would overlook the breach into theology. But I real think that a thread on saving them from the follies of their ways is inappropriate in this forum - regardless of the rules. Combined with the thread on praying for someone else's misfortune, there are currently threads I am ashamed to be associated with.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Jerry M said:Dan DeVilder said:
We still have a (non-functional) metal box/door built into our 1950's era home
We didn't have one as I was growing up and in the winter sometimes the milk would freeze and pop the top, if we didn't get to it in time.
When I was growing up, we had a milkman who would come into our house and put the bottles of milk right into our fridge!
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MJ. I started this and all I wanted to know was this:
In order to start a personal Bible study FOR MYSELF AND NOBODY ELSE on the topic of the immortal soul where should "I" begin to look. Never did I insinuate trying to convert another to what my theology is, my theology is 'ever changing growing.'
All I wanted from helpful brothers/sisters was a suggestion something like this:
"If I were you, I would begin my personal bible study by studying the topic of the Image of God and then see how that applies to the nature of man.... or research what Bavinck or Hodge or even Reymond and possibly your favorite theologian might say about this... or look at any class notes that you may have saved from Seminary or even your sermons that you have preached or Bible studies that you have led etc.................."
AND THEN, with my PERSONAL study completed I would have the appropriate background to THEN AND ONLY THEN begin to talk with some semblance of Biblical intelligence to my two friends.
I got some very helpful information from some guys of which I am appreciative. But regrettfully this has gone way out of sorts and maybe you could suggest the proper form for this to have been inniated in the first place.
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We have a bunch of 'acreages' around our city and I used to do that when I was doing the "country run" I would go into the homes and either put the product in the fridge or leave it on the kitchen table. I would then be greeted with my money and sometimes a warm cup of javva. But the roads, especially during winter killed my truck and I got stuck a couple of times so I decided to sell that part of my route to another milkman. Now that all my customers are in the city, all I do is put my milk between the doors, on the door step or in coolers. When it gets to be 80-90 degrees or 40 below zero, the coolers come in very handy especially if I drop of the milk at 3 in the morning.0
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Milkman said:
In order to start a personal Bible study FOR MYSELF AND NOBODY ELSE on the topic of the immortal soul where should "I" begin to look. Never did I insinuate trying to convert another to what my theology is, my theology is 'ever changing growing.'
I'm sorry if it sounded as if I objected to the thread in total. You are absolutely correct that your initial request and some of the answers were appropriate.However, some of the posts crossed the propriety line - because the tone had remained civil, I didn't want to lock down the thread. However, I do think all posters (myself included) need to review their posts. Would the poster feel comfortable and welcomed by the post if they were JW or Christadelphian?
Again, I apologize if it sounded as if I was directing my comments to you.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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This is hiliarious.
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Milkman said:
maybe you could suggest the proper form for this to have been inniated in the first place
Probably had you simply asked:
Milkman said:In order to start a personal Bible study FOR MYSELF AND NOBODY ELSE on the topic of the immortal soul where should "I" begin to look
and titled it in a simple way: "Help needed with study project" or something equally bland then you would have received plain and simple answers.
Andy
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MJ. Smith said:
Would the poster feel comfortable and welcomed by the post if they were JW or Christadelphian?
Good question. I myself belong to a 'minority religion' - after the tone of some of the posts I have read in this and other posts I am hesitant to say which one. I am well aware that having beliefs outside of the mainstream 'truth' can lead to challenges. Polite requests for clarification are fine. Being labelled 'heretic', 'cult', 'false prophet', 'brainwashed', 'weeds', and so forth is another thing altogether.
The reason I study the Bible in the original languages, particularly Greek, is to seek, not affirmation that I am 'right' but simply truth. Over the years (I've been doing these studies for decades) I have adjusted my beliefs many times because I found, from the Bible, that I was mistaken. The church I belong to has done likewise.
So, I guess when I saw where this thread seemed to be heading I just 'waded in' in defense of the 'little guy'. I had no intention of provoking or upsetting anyone. If I did, I apologize.
Andy
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the world wide web and Logos' wide user base has made this topic all the more touchy. I think the Milkman has several things to think about now, soooooo, all that is left is to start a new thread on "milkman memories." [:D]
I loved taking our fresh milk (that I personally extracted from a cow . . . ) and letting the cream rise, and pouring that cream over a bowl of freshly picked black raspberries. mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
I like Apples. Especially Honeycrisp.
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Dan DeVilder said:
I loved taking our fresh milk (that I personally extracted from a cow . . . ) and letting the cream rise, and pouring that cream over a bowl of freshly picked black raspberries. mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
I'm more of a cheesecake man myself - with a large helping of clotted cream (that I personally purchased from a supermarket). I have been known to have this for breakfast. I kid you not...[H]
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MJ. Smith said:
However, some of the posts crossed the propriety line
I'm guilty of that, I'm sure. I had no intentions of inappropriate post; just trying to provide feedback on a statement from the OP. Sorry. [:(]
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Andy Bell said:Dan DeVilder said:
I loved taking our fresh milk (that I personally extracted from a cow . . . ) and letting the cream rise, and pouring that cream over a bowl of freshly picked black raspberries. mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
I'm more of a cheesecake man myself - with a large helping of clotted cream (that I personally purchased from a supermarket). I have been known to have this for breakfast. I kid you not...
Yes! Thank you! *smile* Good memories, indeed ....
I'll have to check it out, but I haven't seen "clotted cream" (which I appreciate immensely!!) on the supermarket shelves here in Canada for "a coon's age," maybe never. Reminds me of pleasant trips to the UK! My wife loves High Tea!
Peace!
Philippians 4: 4 Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, Rejoice. 5 Let your reasonableness be known to everyone. The Lord is at hand..........
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Milkman said:
When it gets to be 80-90 degrees or 40 below zero, the coolers come in very handy especially if I drop of the milk at 3 in the morning.
All these milk route posts brought back multiple memories of when I assisted my father and uncle in milk deliveries. Dad had the residential route while Bill had the commercial one. Never had to battle 40 below in North Carolina, but I can remember the early morning starts.
Thanks for the memories.
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Ok forum fans I think this is the last time I'm entering.
But to make everyone happy, and since I'm somewhat of a people pleaser plus I do own my own milk business I have decided to do the following:
- Free milk delivery for everyone who entered the forum
- One years supply of your favourite dairy product
- Free coolers if you live in a cold area of the States or Canada
- Milk To Go drinks for the kids
- So Good or So Nice products for those who may be lactose intolerant (last thing we need on the thread
- A life time supply of chocolate milk or at least until you get sick of it.
Time for the milkman to sign off and hit the hay, midnight comes early these days and my customers need their delivery on time tomorrow.
It's been interesting. Got milk? You will from now on - mooooo
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First and foremost, I humbly ask forgiveness for running roughshod on the forum guidelines earlier. My comment was inappropriate in this forum and for the original question posted. This topic is a burden for me and my wife, and is one of the areas I wrestle with to keep my composure regarding (which I failed at again last night).
Would love to talk more if you are interested. Not too cool here yet (Central Texas), but the shorts + jacket crowd are starting to pop up here and there in the early mornings. If you'd like to take this off forum, drop me a line at eruhnow AT gmail DOT com.
Again, my appologies for not doing ANYTHING to contribute to the original question posted.
Lenovo TS130 Xeon E3-1245V2 | 20GB | 256 GB SSD (OS and Logos) | 3TB WD Red | Windows 10 Pro x64
L4 & L5 Platinum, L6 Gold, L5 Reformed Gold, L6 Reformed Bronze, L7 Lutheran Silver, L7 Reformed Starter, L7 Full Feature Set
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Hi Everyone,
While the motives may have all been well-intentioned, the words we use can oft be misunderstood. The Logos forums are set up to aid in making better use of the software. If God lays it on your heart to be evangelistic, go on out there and do it. Just try to preserve the peace and goodwill of our Logos family. We can always pray for everyone who uses Logos to be drawn closer to God through their study of the Bible.
There is no problem that I can see in asking for help in finding available Logos resources. I, for one, have asked for the New World Translation to be made available in Logos The more resources we have, the easier it will be to conduct a true in-depth study.
MILKMAN: My very first job was dairy delivery in the Southern Japan Alps. We made a trip over the mountain top, bringing back many milk cans and separating the cream. (very good childhood memories.)
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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