Jehovah's Witnesses and Christadelphians

I have two friends, one is a Jehovah's Witness (JW from now, no slight intened) and the other a Christadelphian. All three of us (they don't know eachother) seem to hit on the topic of the 'immortality of the soul.' I'm not quite sure how to broach a study with them. Is it better to begin by studying/researching prior to talking with each of them; 1) the image of God, 2) the creation of man, 3) death, 4) the soul, 5) the resurrection, 6,) heaven/hell or what?

I think the best approach is to come at it with a systematically. But I'm a bit stuck on a starting point for my reseach.

Any suggestions??

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Comments

Milkman

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/178909#Comment_178909

How great that must have been to delivery over the Japaneese Alps! I only have flat roads here on the Prairies.

I agree misunderstandings do happen and for one I'm quite impressed with Eric' apology - way to go Eric!

Evangelism is very close to my heart, not as much as before, but still there.

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/178839#Comment_178839

I myself belong to a 'minority religion' - after the tone of some of the posts I have read in this and other posts I am hesitant to say which on

Andy, that is exactly what I want to make people stop and think about - even if it sometimes makes me look like the "bad cop" I hope that more people will begin to say "hey, this might make nnnn uncomfortable so this is NOT the place to say it." I know that it's hard to find an exact dividing line but still ...

Ted Hans

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/178961#Comment_178961

Phil Gons Posted: Tue, Jan 19 2010 11:23 AM | Locked

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Brad Fry

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/178961#Comment_178961

Sometimes folks need a "bad cop" to get them back in line.

Matthew 7:12 In everything, therefore, treat people the same way you want them to treat you, for this is the Law and the Prophets.

Matthew C Jones

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/178961#Comment_178961

even if it sometimes makes me look like the "bad cop"

OK, precious people of the Logos user family,

We have our "good cop" --- Me! [H]

We have our "bad cop" ---- MJ [^o)]

And our "really bad cop" ---- Ted Hans [8o|] (quoting The Godfather: Phil Gons [:@] )

That is about all the thread needs to be a wrap. [~] No offense intended to real cops or Mario Puzo & friends.[W]

Rosie Perera

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/179009#Comment_179009

even if it sometimes makes me look like the "bad cop"

OK, precious people of the Logos user family,

We have our "good cop" --- Me!

We have our "bad cop" ---- MJ

And our "really bad cop" ---- Ted Hans (quoting The Godfather: Phil Gons )

That is about all the thread needs to be a wrap. No offense intended to real cops or Mario Puzo & friends.

And, to quote Monty Python, "That's a fair cop."

Jonathan Burke

Milkman,
I suggest a careful read of the very resources with which Logos has so
helpfully provided. The fact is that the scholarly consensus on this subject
has shifted quite dramatically. Here's a series of quotes from the relevant
scholarly literature in my Logos collection.

Myers
(ed.), ‘The Eerdmans Bible Dictionary’, p. 518 (1987).

* ‘Indeed, the salvation of the “immortal soul”
has sometimes been a commonplace in preaching, but it is fundamentally
unbiblical. Biblical anthropology is not dualistic but monistic: human
being consists in the integrated wholeness of body and soul, and the Bible
never contemplates the disembodied existence of the soul in bliss.’

Cressey, ‘Dualism’,
in Cressey, Wood, & Marshall (eds.), ‘New Bible
Dictionary’, p. 284 (3^rd. ed. 1996).

* ‘But to the Bible man is not a soul in a body but a
body/soul unity; so true is this
that even in the resurrection, although flesh and blood cannot inherit the
kingdom of God, we shall still have bodies (1 Cor. 15:35ff.).’

Moon, ‘Soul’, in Benner & Hill (eds.), ‘Baker encyclopedia of psychology &
counseling, p. 1148 (2^nd
ed. 1999).

* ‘Modern scholarship has underscored the fact that Hebrew and Greek
concepts of soul were not synonymous. While the Hebrew thought world
distinguished soul from body (as material basis of life), there was no question of two separate, independent entities. A
person did not have a body but was an animated body, a unit of life manifesting
itself in fleshly form—a psychophysical organism (Buttrick, 1962). Although
Greek concepts of the soul varied widely according to the particular era and
philosophical school, Greek thought often presented a view of the soul as a separate
entity from body. Until recent decades
Christian theology of the soul has been more reflective of Greek
(compartmentalized) than Hebrew (unitive) ideas.’

Avery-Peck, ‘Soul’, in Neusner, et al. (eds.),
‘The Encyclopedia of Judaism’, p. 1343 (2000).

* ‘Even as we are
conscious of the broad and very common biblical usage of the term “soul,” we must be clear that Scripture does not
present even a rudimentarily developed theology of the soul.’

Ferguson & Packer (eds.),’New Dictionary of Theology’, pp. 28-29
(electronic ed. 2000).

* ‘Similarly, the
popular debate concerning whether human nature is a bipartite or tripartite
being has the appearance of a rather
ill-founded and unhelpful irrelevancy. The human person is a ‘soul’ by virtue of being a ‘body’
made alive by the ‘breath’ (or ‘Spirit’) of God.’

Elwell & Comfort (eds.), ‘Tyndale Bible dictionary, p. 1216 (2001).

* ‘There is no
suggestion in the OT of the transmigration of the soul as an immaterial,
immortal entity. Man is a unity of body
and soul—terms that describe not so much two separate entities in a person as
much as one person from different standpoints. Hence, in the description of
man’s creation in Genesis 2:7, the phrase “a living soul” (kjv) is better
translated as “a living being.”’

Cooper, ‘Immortality’, in Fahlbusch & Bromiley (eds.), ‘The Encyclopedia of Christianity’, volume 2, p.
(2003).

* ‘The Hebrew Bible does not present
the human soul (nepeš) or spirit (rûah) as an immortal
substance, and for the most part it envisions the dead as ghosts in Sheol, the
dark, sleepy underworld.’

Lake, ‘Soul’, in Silva & Tenney (eds.), ‘The Zondervan Encyclopedia of the Bible’,
volume 5, p. 586 (rev. ed. 2009).

* ‘The English translation of nepeš
by the term “soul” has too often been
misunderstood as teaching a bipartite (soul and body—dichotomy) or
tripartite (body, soul, and spirit—trichotomy) anthropology. Equally misleading
is the interpretation that too radically
separates soul from body as in the Greek view of human nature.’

Chris Thompson

Why do we make things so difficult?

When all else fails...Read the instructions. [:D]

1 Tim 6:15-16
which He will bring about at the proper time — He who is the blessed and only Sovereign, the King of kings and Lord of lords, 16 who alone possesses immortality and dwells in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see. To Him be honor and eternal dominion! Amen.
NASU

Friedrich

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/179709#Comment_179709

who alone possesses immortality

wha? wha? [;)]

good choice, sir.

Jerry M

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/179739#Comment_179739

Several Scriptures immediately come to mind that counters the last couple of posters, but that is contrary to forum rules isn't it? Why isn't this thread dead instead of trying to get the last word in?

Jonathan Burke

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/179739#Comment_179739

Jerry, I think if we just stay with the quotes from the relevant scholarly literature, we'll keep well within forum guidelines.

Chris Thompson

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/179755#Comment_179755

Why isn't this thread dead instead of trying to get the last word in?

As I understand it, The Bible IS the "Last Word"

Jerry, I think if we just stay with the quotes from the relevant scholarly literature, we'll keep well within forum guidelines.

What can be more relevant and scholarly than the Word of God?

Friedrich

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/179753#Comment_179753

Several Scriptures immediately come to mind that counters the last couple of posters, but that is contrary to forum rules isn't it? Why isn't this thread dead instead of trying to get the last word in?

it reveals how deeply we feel about certain subjects that we feel the need to keep posting. But I would say this thread should be dead, and if people keep posting responses--have grace on them, but keep from responding yourself. Eventually this will die, or at least it won't blossom into a full blown thread, and we will all voluntarily honor Logos' request (who maintain and underwrite this forum) to not pursue such debates. The OP has enough of what he needs, according to him.

I am not against the passionate responses personally, but guideline wise they have overstepped the bounds. (or are getting really really close)

[:)]

Jerry M

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/179755#Comment_179755

we'll keep well within forum guidelines.

Chris Thompson

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/179771#Comment_179771

Was that the last word?[:P]

Jonathan Burke

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/179766#Comment_179766

What can be more relevant and scholarly than the Word of God?

No one is challenging the relevance of the Word of God, but we're trying to stay within the forum guidelines here.

Chris Thompson

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/179917#Comment_179917

What can be more relevant and scholarly than the Word of God?

No one is challenging the relevance of the Word of God, but we're trying to stay within the forum guidelines here.

OK...Fair Enough.

Just as long as you were not trying to get the last word in.

Brad Fry

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/179939#Comment_179939

What?

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/179755#Comment_179755

Jerry, I think if we just stay with the quotes from the relevant scholarly literature, we'll keep well within forum guidelines.

No, it doesn't matter if we use our own words or quote other people's words. You still will will make people uncomfortable. How to USE Logos is not the equivalent of finding a Logos resource to state your theology for you.

What does it take to convince people that the forums should be a place where ANY Logos user can feel comfortable and know that if their beliefs are attacked, the pressure of the forum members will cut it off.