Changes to logos4 links coming to v39 and v40
Comments
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@Andrew Batishko please note that my experience is based on mobile, so web app and mobile app is doing the same. I have not tested it on desktop. I am mainly a mobile user.
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I was focused on the experience in the web app, but the mobile team is also taking a look at the mobile app. Thanks for letting us know about the problem!
Andrew Batishko | Logos software developer
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Please don't take offense at my criticism, but I think it's a shame and also questionable to remove a function if the function it replaces is limited in its functionality, and obviously even buggy. What about testing? 😅
Actually, when creating a link to a verse, the standard Bible is always opened and not the Bible that is encoded in the link (URL).
Case study: My standard Bible is the Schlachter 2000 (German). If I create a ref.ly based verse-link, for example “https://ref.ly/logosref/BibleELBER2003.Lk2.49”, the Schlachter 2000 is always opened although the Elberfelder CSV (ELBER2003) should be opened. Using logos4 links this worked without any problems.
Note: I'm using macOS and Apple Notes.
🙏👋
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Testing doesn't ensure that every bug is identified before release. To insinuate that the team hadn't done testing just after asking that no offense be taken seems a bit odd.
At any rate, I am unable to replicate this behavior, but I also don't own said Bibles. Every ref.ly link I have tried opens to the appropriate Bible, not my top (prioritized) Bible.
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Welcome top the Logos forums!
My understanding for the ref.ly link you posted as an example is that it is a reference link, not a resource link. It will therefore open the referenced bible verse in your preferred bible by design (not a bug, all is as it should be). The mentioning of Elber2003 in the link tells Logos to use the verse map of Elberfelder CSV for this, not the standard bible verse map (which is extremely relevant if you want to refer to Psalm verses, less so in Luke).
EDIT: both formats, L4 and ref.ly can be used to link to references as well as to positions in resources. A resource link opening Elberfelder CSV would look like this
logosres:lbrfldrbhckswgn;ref=BibleELBER2003.Lk2.49
https://ref.ly/logosres/lbrfldrbhckswgn?ref=BibleELBER2003.Lk2.49
Have joy in the Lord!
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Perhaps the confusion lies in how the link is being created. Clicking on "Copy link" from the Share tab on the Dynamic Toolbar should produce a ref.ly link that does what I think you want it to do.
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Sometimes some harsh words are beneficial, however the emoji was meant to take the seriousness out of the last sentence rather than encourage sarcasm in any way, sorry about that. I've worked as a software developer myself for more than 15 years and know the importance of testing and documentation processes. As this is a core function of Logos, I would have liked to see at least the documentation brought up to date.
However, thanks to both of you, I now know the difference between “Share/Copy special/A link (URL)” and “Share/Copy link”. Everything is working fine again ☺️
BTW, thanks for the welcome 🤝
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Sounds all good, but to be honest I have no really a use-case for it, as the feature is totally crippled in my eyes.
You need to expand the feature to all content. Atlas, Timeline, Searches (So I can do a search in a Bible, copy it as path, send it to another person, he click on it and it does the same search too.) etc. etc.
Χριστὸς ἐν ὑμῖν, ἡ ἐλπὶς τῆς δόξης·
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I have found ref.ly links to be very helpful within my notes, allowing for quick access to specific locations within my resources. They make it a lot easier to compile tons of helpful info in a small amount of space.
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What am I missing here? Doesn't this link open a search for you in the ESV for "person:Barnabas"?
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- 1. How do you do that?
- 2. It opens the search, but not the Bible. O.K. with the next click, it does.
- 3. In the competitor you can do a search and then copy the search entry box as URL link.
4. How do you link to a part of other books. I see to select them and use the right click is not an option. What do I miss?
Χριστὸς ἐν ὑμῖν, ἡ ἐλπὶς τῆς δόξης·
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1. How do you do that?
Do the search in Logos, three-dot-menu, "Copy location" (I'm on the old-style toolbar, no subscription)
4. How do you link to a part of other books. I see to select them and use the right click is not an option. What do I miss?
Select the text, three-dot-menu, "Copy location" (probably different with subscription)
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Thanks, I got the subscription as a gift. So it looks different now until the non subscribers got the same view.
Thanks, I seen now it works starting in the "Search" but not if you do an inline search and then copy the location. So this should be added. Currently it only opens the bible as the rest is lacking . Sorry was able to unlink it, but now now.
Interesting you're second answer works now, but in the old view the right click was only working vor going to verses not to the intro or so.
I'm not able to do it in Atlas, even the 3 dot's and the right click to the URL is given. Maybe because I cannot select a place name.
Same in the expanded Timeline.
Visual Timeline and other stuff.
Χριστὸς ἐν ὑμῖν, ἡ ἐλπὶς τῆς δόξης·
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I'm not able to do it in Atlas, even the 3 dot's and the right click to the URL is given. Maybe because I cannot select a place name.
In Atlas, Three dots > Copy location, will copy a link to the current map, e.g.,
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THIS IS HORRIBLE!
I found out today thanks to the update that the option to make L4 links are gone. I noticed because I make 10 to 20 L4 links every day when I work. And no they are not identical to ref.ly! Please make it possible in some advanced Program Settings or something so that one still can make these links! I have never been this upset by an update before!!
Why on earth would one remove a feature?! Move it sure, but remove it?!?
Again, the ref.ly link is not a replacement! Please help and bring back the possibility to make L4 links!0 -
@Leonard Metsäranta — in what way are L4 links superior to ref.ly? Do the comments in the original post help?
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Thank you @Mark Barnes (Logos) for taking notice! The main reason is that L4 links are instant. They go straight to Logos rather than via the web browser. Yes I know, ref.ly links does not open the browser but the path is different which results in a prolonged time to process the link. Opening a ref.ly link usually takes a second or two to load depending on the computer I am using, which might not sound like much, but since I not only create a lot of links a day but also open them even more frequently, the instant snappiness is not a feature I want to part from. Please do compare the links to feel the extreme difference in speed yourself and I am sure you will understand what I am talking about. The difference is especially visible on slower computers such as my laptop, but even so I prefer to have things run as smooth as possible, especially when I know how good it can be. I think Logos has a reputation of being sluggish and not feeling light to use, and removing this feature is really a huge step in the wrong direction.
The most annoying detail is that this is not a feature that requires some hard work to include in the app since it was a feature still a couple of days ago. I totally understand if it looks scary to be able to do more things, but really instead of removing the possibility for us to use these features one could hide them into Program Settings under advanced customization or something needing an activation so as to appear in the Panel Menu (or just change what the default is). To remove features completely is really not the way to go, and makes one wonder what other features will be taken away. I cannot stress enough how important these are for me, and would gladly be stuck on an older version of Logos if it meant keeping this feature.
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@Leonard Metsäranta — I've not experienced slowness in link opening, but I am on a fairly fast Mac. Are you on Mac or Windows?
To remove features completely is really not the way to go
FWIW, this work wasn't intended to remove a feature but to merge the best of two "features" (URL and L4 links) to get the best out of both formats.
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@Mark Barnes (Logos) but how will Mobile and web app users be able to copy location as that is currently not available.
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@Lukas — we haven't made changes to the Copy Location functionality on mobile or web. While Copy Location isn't as prevalent in those apps as it is in desktop, it's sometimes available via a Share button.
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@Mark Barnes (Logos) the share is available on web app but then you share a document with a group or with a certain person that has the link. The share does not copy the link as l4 document.
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@Mark Barnes (Logos) — I am on Windows 11 and the speed difference is VERY noticeable while running on a fairly decent PC setup (I can give specs if you want). I would like to add that if this wasn't noticeable I would not be this upset, as you hopefully understand. The intention of merging two features into one single best of both worlds is admirable but has clearly failed. I do see the value in wanting to make an all in one link and I would be all for it if it would work well. Since it is so slow I truly do not agree that the L4 link has been successfully merged into the ref.ly link and as such the L4 speed it has in practice become a removed feature even if it is not intended to be so.
I've tried to check the config files of Logos but haven't found anything that suggests the possibility to change the type of link that is generated. I assume it will take a while until the ref.ly link gets updated to a faster format or until L4 gets available again in Logos and as such I am looking for temporary solution to this. Do you know if this setting can be edited in the config files?0 -
I checked on my Windows computer and the speed of opening new links was nearly immediate.
I recorded a short video showing this - I said the word Click when I clicked the link
@Leonard Metsäranta - I assume you are seeing significantly longer delays than this
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Thank you @Graham Criddle for taking an interest in this! In order to get as similar results as possible I tried to replicate what you do in the video and I got near identical results. The thing is that I paste these links into a note-taking program, not inside Logos. Apparently Logos is able to recognize the ref.ly link quicker when it is opened inside the program, as is clear from this experiment. The problem comes when I open the ref.ly link outside of Logos. I use Obsidian to keep track of research for my thesis and make links to everything from bible verses to books that I cite. When I open an L4 link inside Obsidian, Logos responds as quickly as in the video you made, it works as well as if it was the same program I've taken my notes in so to speak. But when I open an ref.ly link inside Obsidian, it takes a while for Logos to recognize the link.
Again, thank you for showing interest and making this video!0 -
But when I open an ref.ly link inside Obsidian, it takes a while for Logos to recognize the link.
That's really helpful to know.
I don't have Obsidian but I've just tried the same thing in Microsoft OneNote and from clicking a link there to the resource opening in Logos was less than a second.
What sorts of delays are you seeing?
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@Graham Criddle — As I mentioned in an earlier reply to Mark Barnes it takes between a second and two seconds to open depending on which computer I am on when I open an ref.ly link, while L4 links in comparison are instant on my PC and about less than half a second on my laptop. I am aware that this might seem insignificant if one does not use these kinds of links regularly, but for me this is a really big deal!
To put it into perspective, think of it like using a TV remote. With L4 links, pressing the channel button zaps you to the next station instantly. With ref.ly links, it’s like every button press now takes one or two seconds to register. It is doable, but when you’re flipping through channels to find what you need, that lag gets old fast, especially since you know that it can be better, and in fact was better a couple of days ago. For everyone who relies on these links then, the delay is like a small, albeit relentless hiccup in what used to be a fluid experience.
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@Leonard Metsäranta The L4 links from Word 365 are faster, but the ref.ly links can be 1 - 2s at worst. Have you considered manually converting ref.ly to L4?
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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@Dave Hooton — Actually I am doing just that. I've just managed to create a simple program that converts ref.ly links into L4 links. Haven't run into any issues yet. Except with one resource, but it turned out it was not my converter that caused the issue, but the ref.ly link itself.
I came across this issue when linking to 1 Enoch 6:6 the OTP1 by Charlesworth. When I try to copy this location it gives me the following link: https://ref.ly/1En6.6;otpseud01. Clicking this link does nothing for me, do you get the same link from Logos and does your link give the same result? An old L4 link I had to this passage seems to work just fine (logosres:otpseud01;ref=BibleOTP.1En6.6).0 -
Sometimes when linking to that place in OTP1 I get the same ref.ly link you do and, yes, that doesn't work.
But sometimes I get this link - - and it does.
(https://ref.ly/logosres/otpseud01?ref=Pseudepigrapha.1+En.+6.6)
And I haven't been able to work out why I sometimes get one and sometimes the other.
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Thanks for reporting this bug. Although it shipped in v40, it's unrelated to the change to using refly links. (If "Copy link" was generating https://ref.ly/logosres/otpseud01?ref=BibleOTP.1En.6.6 it would be a refly link that does work.)
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@Leonard Metsäranta I came across this issue when linking to 1 Enoch 6:6 the OTP1 by Charlesworth. When I try to copy this location it gives me the following link: https://ref.ly/1En6.6;otpseud01. Clicking this link does nothing for me, do you get the same link from Logos and does your link give the same result? An old L4 link I had to this passage seems to work just fine (logosres:otpseud01;ref=BibleOTP.1En6.6).
I get the same link https://ref.ly/1En6.6;otpseud01, which does not work in Logos' Command Box, so it is a resource bug as Bradley states above.
The constructed ref.ly link that does work is: https://ref.ly/logosres/otpseud01?ref=BibleOTP.1En6.6 as well as your L4 link.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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To everyone that keeps their research notes in other programs beside Logos, or for any other reason prefer L4 over ref.ly, here is a temporal solution to the linking issue while we wait for an update to the copy location feature. I've made a small lightweight program that converts shorthand and full resource ref.ly links into working L4 links. Erroneous ref.ly links that are mentioned in this thread are also corrected. Some simple features such as a pin that keeps the window on top of other applications as well as a history tab are also included but generally a very simple application. No requirements needed.
Can be downloaded here.
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Can be downloaded here.
See comments at
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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I use Obsidian and increasingly another research app called Capacities. The ref.ly links are somewhat slower than the old-school L4 links. My Mac is reasonably well spec'ed, so YMMV.
I still hope for a day when we can use a programme like HookMark to fetch the link from Logos, but for now, I am grateful for the linking capabilities we have.
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