Keep the CD's?

I now have a bunch of Logos/Libronix Cd's that I really can't imagine ever needing now that L4 only needs serial numbers. Is there any reason I should hang on to these Cd's that I'm not aware of? I like simple living and any time I can eliminate clutter I do.

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Robert Pavich

ron,

I don't know why...I threw all mine away....

Rob Kuefner

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/181795#Comment_181795

Wow, I have a CD case full of Logos CD's, it'd be great to clear them out... is there a definitive voice from Logos that would like to speak to this one... I'm all for getting rid of them if unneeded, but don't know about some of those from outside publishers... though my understanding is that Logos has our license info on file for all the resources that we own... is that true for things we purchased from others, like Concordia Publishing House, for example for my many Lutheran resources?

David Wilson

Depends: There are other ways of backing up what you might need to restore an operational version of Logos 3,

BUT: There are many third party CDs that contain audio and video files that do not appear as part of what Logos 4 will download for you from the cloud and as yet Logos 4 is not fully functional for all such files (although these too can be backed up in other ways and will play with other software). It is not obvious for example that there is any intent to provide in Logos 4 the ability to off load all these audio and video files from their respective CDs and place them in a media folder and or in any way to provide direct links to them as was done by their respective 3rd party vendors from their respective 3rd party Logos 3 Home pages.

That said if all you bought the CDs for was to transfer book files and you bought all of them from Logos and none contain anything other than the book files, and you are now using only Logos 4, and you expect to always have ready access to the cloud, then you may no longer have need for the CDs.

Jonathan Burke

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/181823#Comment_181823

I keep all my CDs, because I'm a packrat. One of my CDs was unfortunately cracked when I received it, so it couldn't be used. However, that didn't matter since I had already downloaded it. It just means that resource isn't available in my L3 library.

SteveF

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/181920#Comment_181920

One of my CDs was unfortunately cracked

Over 12 of ordering CD's through the mail, I only had this happen once.

When I made Logos aware, they quickly replaced it.[:)]

Rob Kuefner

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/181984#Comment_181984

I know there are CD/DVD's that have book files, and also audio or video files... like Lucado, Macarthur, etc, which could easily be copied to a hard drive and so long as it's backed up (you do back up, don't you?) you wouldn't have to keep the CD/DVD. But I'd still like to hear from a Logos employee whether things like my Luther's Works CD is still needed (it came from Concordia Publishing House) since Logos knows I have a license for it, and will download it should I ever need to restore my files from the Logos Server... that's just one example... I know there are other resources that come from 3rd party venders, and so long as Logos knows I have them licensed and it's synced with the server, it seems I don't need to keep the CD's anymore. BTW, I only use Logos 4 and don't have a need for Logos 3, so that part of the equation wouldn't apply to me... Perhaps a list of CD resources that are safe to discard would be one way to help those of us who want to declutter to do so. Thanks! [:D]

Milford Charles Murray

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/181920#Comment_181920

Peace to you, Jonathan! And Joy!

*smile*

Actually, you can have it available in your L3 Library. If your resources have been synchronised, you may download it from the Logos web site. There is a download feature for the file by almost every resource listing. Also, if you know the file name (which you can get from L4 information), you may also use the Logos FTP site!

There are a very, very few 3rd party resources that are not on the FTP site, but that's quite rare.

Bob Schaefer

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/181990#Comment_181990

I'd still like to hear from a Logos employee whether things like my Luther's Works CD is still needed (it came from Concordia Publishing House) since Logos knows I have a license for it, and will download it should I ever need to restore my files from the Logos Server...

Sorry I'm late to the party - I was corresponding today with Ron Snyder at Logos tech support, and this topic came up.

Here's what Ron told me:

There are times when
the publisher removes the license (permission) so that we cannot offer the
product to our customers. This is why we never suggest that you toss your CD’s,
because that would be the only way for you to have access to those resources. For
example, for several years we had lost the license to offer Barclay’s Daily
Bible Series, and just recently got the licenses back. So, even if we lose the
license and cannot currently offer the book, as long as you have the disc(s)
and are able to install the program (if it’s an older one), then you will have
access to those books.

In other words, just because Logos currently is licensed to allow you to download a resource, they may not always have a license from the publisher to do so, despite the fact that you've previously purchased a license to use that resource in Logos. If you don't have a local copy of the resource when you need to reload the software, you may be out of luck. Worse, you won't actually know you're out of luck until you someday try to access a resource you know you should have, and it's no longer there. Hope you have the CDs handy, and don't mind reinstalling several iterations of the program in order to re-unlock your resources. (And that's assuming you're still able to install the old apps on your current operating system.)

I don't know the intricacies of licensing, but I think this is nuts, and it undermines Logos' whole cloud initiative. It means users who are relying on the cloud can never be sure we have all of the resources to which we're entitled, because whether they get downloaded or not depends on the vagaries of Logos' licensing arrangements at the moment we install the software.

That should make no difference at all - the license to use the resource has already been purchased, and even if Logos is no longer able to provide that resource to any new users, it should go without saying that users who have already licensed the software should be allowed to reinstall it and all of their licensed material, using the new cloud method that modern versions of Logos will clearly prefer.

I've always felt confident in my investment in Logos, because they've been clear that licenses are for keeps. When I purchase a resource, I will be able to continue using that resource in future versions of the software. This rattles my confidence. I've invested too many thousands of dollars in this software to have to worry whether my resources are vanishing without a trace. And if the only way to be sure everything that's supposed to be my library is in my library is to feed my computer one CD after another, then what, exactly, has been gained by the move to cloud installations?

I apologize if I'm ranting, but Logos needs to understand that the security and longevity of resources is one of the keys to their product's success. If users don't feel they can count on their digital library lasting a lifetime, they'll be reluctant to invest any great amount of resources into an ephemeral medium. So far, Logos has done a good job of inspiring confidence that our investment is for the long haul. This, though... this worries me.

I'm planning on spending this evening making ISO copies of my dozens of old Logos CDs and DVDs, and then once again going through the disc-feeding, hoop-jumping routine I was glad to leave behind with Libronix, so that the resources I'm missing will get reinstalled. Fun, fun.

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/194662#Comment_194662

Well, I've been the 'scoffer' on not walking away from the CDs, I always buy the CDs if feasible. I notice happily that the updated Logos.com now shows that indeed my CD orders are still in place. Yahoo. But that said, Joan Kort's comment (hope I got her name right) about downloading the L3 copy and backing up the the downloaded files and licenses makes just as much sense (more sense?). I only get the CDs because my backups rarely work 10-15 years later. I change backup software multiple times. Not sure what'll happen with the L4 resources though. I don't have much of an investment in the L4-only group yet.

Bob Pritchett

You do not need your old CD's. I'm sorry our team said you should; I think that's a misunderstanding on their part, which I will correct. We have had licenses pulled from publishers, but I can't think of a scenario where we were prohibited from making the file available to users who had already purchased it, or that we ever would be.

We are working with all of our publishers to move completely away from CD's, and hope to have eliminated all CD products by early next year. The only CD's after that point will be ones we make here for the convenience of users who can't download. There should be no CD's that are created and pressed by third-party publishers in the future.

The one possible reason to keep your CD: If it's an LLS generation (before September, 2001) CD-ROM that came from a third-party publisher (not Logos) for which you know we don't have the files in Logos4 format on the FTP site. I think this is a VERY tiny number of books -- we're trying to catch up on all of them -- but it's possible there are a few left, and this CD ensures you've got the files and can prove ownership (in case you bought it from someone other than us).

But if your CD/DVD is newer than 2001, I don't see a reason to keep it around, other than winning a "who's got the biggest/oldest Logos CD?" contest on our blog many years from now.

:-)

Ronald Quick

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/194665#Comment_194665

I too keep the cd's because it is next to impossible for me to throw anything of value out.

I do have a related question: if I backed up my "resources" folder in L4 on an external hard drive, would that also accomplish the same thing as having all my cd's?

Bob Pritchett

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/194680#Comment_194680

I'm reminded the "Rose Tree Press" books (late 1990's CD's) may not ever be available via FTP; at least one title was published with an incorrect understanding of copyright status, and thus can't ever be distributed, since even the initial distribution wasn't authorized.

Backing up your actual resource files should work as well as saving CD's in this case.

Bob Schaefer

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/194691#Comment_194691

Bob,

Thanks for clarifying the policy!

I'm encouraged that licenses and downloads actually do work the way I always assumed they did. I've still got some AWOL licenses from the LLS days, but if I manage to locate those discs, I ought to be able to work that out by reinstalling things. (Still weird that they were present for me in Libronix, though.)

I'm also encouraged, by the way, that you took the time to personally set the record straight about this, and barely a couple hours an hour after I originally posted. It's rare for a president/CEO to be so actively involved in customer satisfaction, and I really do appreciate your involvement with your users.

Two cookies and a gold star for you! [:D]

Jonathan Burke

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/181994#Comment_181994

Thanks for the information Milford, sorry I didn't see your reply earlier. Bob, thanks for the information on the future of CDs/DVDs in Logos. Sounds great to me.

Rob Kuefner

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/194779#Comment_194779

Bob (Pritchett),

Thanks for this wonderful news. Out of curiosity, is there a way to see a list of all the licenses that Logos has for our individual accounts. I know obviously from my account page all of the resources purchased through Logos, but I'm thinking here of the resources from 3rd parties. Do we just have to go to the FTP site and compare to those 3rd party resource CD's to verify they are on the server, or is there a way to print out the licenses Logos shows we have rights to. I'm thinking of the old account management report that listed the product names that were a part of our account. Thanks for an answer on this one, or if there's a way to verify your servers our aware of our third party purchases, other than the "Rose Tree Press" books you mentioned. And I echo Bob Schaefer, I've always been impressed by Logos and your personal involvement on the forum reinforces my trust in my Logos investments. God bless!

Gary Butner, Th.D.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/194680#Comment_194680

You do not need your old CD's. I'm sorry our team said you should; I think that's a misunderstanding on their part, which I will correct. We have had licenses pulled from publishers, but I can't think of a scenario where we were prohibited from making the file available to users who had already purchased it, or that we ever would be.

Today I discovered my Collins Dictionary and maybe more was missing on two computers. I have the Collins Cobuild Pronuncation and the Thesaurus. The rest is still in the cloud somewhere.

Gary Butner, Th.D.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/194969#Comment_194969

Apparently the cloud does not have everything. After discovering I was missing 3 Collins books, I talked to support. There is a 56 resource differennce between my old and new computers, with the old one containing more resources. I am backing up my drives in the future.

Milford Charles Murray

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/194985#Comment_194985

Hi Gary,

Peace to you! And a Blessed and Happy Thanksgiving! *smile*

Am not quite sure I understand your two posts .... Had you synchronised your licenses on L3.0g?

If so, you have the licenses for all your books registered with Logos (and probably backed up by you, also!), and they should be available to you.

Maybe your missing books are PBB's???

Do you still have your L3.0g running? Will be keeping mine for along time, even if I use it rarely.

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/194985#Comment_194985

Apparently the cloud does not have everything. After discovering I was missing 3 Collins books, I talked to support. There is a 56 resource differennce between my old and new computers, with the old one containing more resources. I am backing up my drives in the future.

Yes, very wise. I presume the missing resources were the old LLS format (*.lsf/*.lix)?