Why Are Bibles Such a Problem for Logos?

DMB

Yes, that's a come-on title, but a real question.

I watched Logos over the years, as to what they demand interest in (eg community pricing, or prepub). Some, they just 'do'. And some … well, they're off out in the Logos-sphere somewhere.

Some Bibles have difficult 'owners' (copyrights yes … ease of distribution, no). So, that's a big problem. Some don't have digital files (scan and proofread is not cheap).

But the rest? On my Bible software, I bring in Bibles. Lots. And I'm no software guru … I just want the Bibles. So, I have a stack of parsers (not unlike sewing forms, or violin making forms, etc). Pick one that's closest, make some changes, and see how they work. Make some more changes, and try again. With luck, it's an hour's work. With a screwy file (often from a print-output), could be a day or so.

Then, there's the odd observation. Logos brings in Bibles hardly anyone is likely to use. In fact, my favorite Bible! And I have a bunch of low-use english Bibles in Logos. Would I trade my old favorite for work on a Romanian at Bellingham High? Of course. And bunches more in the Files directory.

Just seems strange.

What prompted this post, was the thread on the Romanian Bible. Ben replied, they're about to prepub it (the thread was quite long, reflecting interest). Prepub it. Lordy.

Then, there's the Polish Bible thread. I-am-impressed!! But Logos?

Then, there's eSword. Enough said.

Rick Brannan

If it were just uncritically sucking up available stuff and dumping out something good enough, it would be as easy as you indicate, @DMB.

On the Logos end (again, I'm not there anymore so can't state positively, but the calculus may be similar), there are issues with many of the bibles that are just out there on the internet, even those in eSword.

Many of them have versification stuffed back into a KJV-ish system that does not properly represent the source bible.

Many of them are riddled with typos and even additions and omissions when compared to a published edition.

There is no provenance for many of them. Each ends up being a research project of unspecified proportions. This is why reputable repositories like open.bible and thedigitalbiblelibrary.org (which actually has a rights layer) are so important.

Basically it is tough to guarantee that the files from a so-named edition of a so-named Bible someone found out there on the internet actually faithfully represents the text of said edition of said Bible. That's why it is best/easiest to work with reputable repositories and/or Bible societies that typically have faithful, reputable, provenanced editions of Bibles (even the old public domain ones).

DMB

That's true. But deflecting. I refer to wanting customer buy-in before Logos-buy-in. On Bibles. Is eSword sloppy .. a rhetorical point visa viz do-ability.

Veli Voipio

Quoting Rick Brannan with copy/paste method: " That's why it is best/easiest to work with reputable repositories and/or Bible societies that typically have faithful, reputable, provenanced editions of Bibles (even the old public domain ones)."

I agree, and just do it.

Then Logos will have Bibles in all the relevant languages in the world, and that would make Logos greater than ever.

Below is Bible translator Tim Raymond in Zaire. I took the photo in 1985, that is 40 years ago. Therefore I think many (or most) translations are nowadays available in digital format and it would be relatively easy to port them into Logos.

MJ. Smith

Are you expecting Logos to produce verse maps for all these Bibles? Or are you expecting something more like a user-generated personal book? What sort of linkage are you expecting to the Knowledgebase elements? These are the questions that I confront daily with my Text Creation Partnership psalters - my primary reason for purchasing the collection.

I would suggest that Logos put together the equivalent to a Text Creation Partnership for world languages where they lack the skills, market, or interest in producing a "real" Bible. If they don't make the distinction, I see this as a resource eating mine-field.

Note: users are able to create the Knowledgebase element links but not milestones/versemaps.

DMB

Well, that'll kick the can. How in the world did they do those 1800s Bibles, I wonder. But yes, they'd need to climb out of their US world.

Several of my relatives are missionaries … they know the routine.

John J. Tollefsen

I wish Lagos would allow us to create our own Bibles that we can access using the parallel source function

Nathan Parker

Trinitarian Bible Society has been digitizing a bunch of their foreign language Bibles. I follow their work regularly.

John

@John J. Tollefsen

I wish Lagos would allow us to create our own Bibles that we can access using the parallel source function

They do. Its called a personal book.

MJ. Smith

@DMB

How in the world did they do those 1800s Bibles, I wonder.

I think these are closer parallels —-

Taussig, Hal. A New New Testament: A Bible for the Twenty-First Century Combining Traditional and Newly Discovered Texts. New York, NY: Mariner Books, 2017.
Tye, Christopher. The Actes of the Apostles, Translated into Englyshe Metre, and Dedicated to the Kynges Moste Excellent Maiestye, by Christofer Tye, Doctor in Musyke, and One of the Gentylmen of Hys Graces Moste Honourable Chappell, Wyth Notes to Eche Chapter, to Synge and Also to Play Vpon the Lute, Very Necessarye for Studentes after Theyr Studye, to Fyle Theyr Wyttes, and Also for All Christians That Cannot Synge, to Reade the Good and Godlye Storyes of the Lyues of Christ Hys Apostles. Early English Books Online. Imprynted at London: By Nycolas Hyll, for Wyllyam Seres, 1553.
The Byble in Englyshe That Is to Saye, the Content of All the Holye Scrypture, Bothe of the Olde and Newe Testament, Truly Translated after the Veryte of the Hebrue and Greke Textes, by the Diligent Studye of Dyuers Excellent Lerned [men E]xperte in the Fore[saide] Tongues. Early English Books Online. Prynted at London: Thomas Petyt, and Robert Redman, for Thomas Berthelet: prynter vnto the kyngis grace. Cum priuilegio ad imprimendum solum, 1540.
White, John. Davids Psalms in Metre. Agreeable to the Hebrew, to Be Sung in Usuall Tunes. To He [sic] Benefit of the Churches of Christ. / By the Reverend Mr. John White Minister of Gods Word in Dorchester. Early English Books Online. London: S. Griffin for J. Rothwel, at the Fountain and Bear in Goldsmiths row in Cheapside, 1655.
Tyndale, William. The Newe Testament Dylygently Corrected and Compared with the Greke by Willyam Tindale, and Fynesshed in the Yere of Our Lorde God A.M.D. & Xxxiiij. in the Moneth of Nouember. Early English Books Online. Imprinted at Anwerp sic: By Marten Emperowr, 1534.

Exported from Verbum, 8:24 PM January 28, 2025.