Original 1611

ASUNDER · 2025-02-06T23:28:18+00:00

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Do you have the original KJV 1611 on your store somewhere?
All there is, is a product that is "pictures" of it or something.

The normal KJV version available is the year 1900 publication.
Same with other places selling books on the internet, you find the "Authorized - Pure Cambridge Edition" but that's just the 1900 print too. They advertise it as the 1611 but it should be called the 1900.

I'm looking for the actual book that was published in 1611, unchanged or updated in any way. ?

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Jan Krohn

This edition has an appendix with sort of an apparatus containing all changes in the revisions from 1611 up to 1873.

The Cambridge Paragraph Bible of the Authorized English Version (KJV) | Logos Bible Software

That's probably the closest you can get to the 1611 text within Logos.

MJ. Smith

See

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/99473#Comment_99473

for a complete answer

ASUNDER

Thanks guys. I already have both the editions mentioned here.

That's why I learned the "Pure Cambridge Edition" is the 1900. It says so in the introduction.

The problem is the year 1611 and the year 1900 is not the same thing. And "published in Australia" is on the other side of the world from the Church of England or Cambridge University for that matter.

I'm going to have to read that entire lengthy introduction to see what it says. I just want an exact copy of the first print. Not necessarily for doctrine, I just want to check on some numerology. So every letter in every word has to be exact, for counting alphanumerically. I want to follow up on something. So I was hoping this book was already available.

I'll have a look at your link.

Somebody tell that Bishop, that theology is the study of God, not the meeting thereof. The pharisees were expert theologians. Saul of Tarsus being the chief of them all.

John

The 1611 text is not readable by English speakers today. It is not the English we speak.

MJ. Smith

Did you read the Bob Pritchett post I linked to … and its links? If you read the history of the KJV in any of the resources he links to, you will understand that you are on a fool's mission/tilting windmills. The 1900 version is as I understand it essentially a "critical edition".

Richard Dowdy

I don't know of any Logos resources with the original text of the KJV, but check out https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/
It has scans of the original pages, plus the text (with 17th century spelling).

The site is definitely a 1611. I have a replica one on my Bible shelf, plus a leaf from an original 1611 KJV on the wall, so I'm familiar with it.

As for readability, it's challenging but doable.
- The gothic font takes some getting used to
- A font change instead of italics is used to indicate supplied words
- Spelling wasn't standardized yet, and can even vary for the same word within the Bible
- There are regular s and long s (looks like an uncrossed f), both of which are read as "s"
- There are regular r and rotunda r (looks like a skinny 2), both of which are read as "r"
- i and j are used pretty much interchangeably
- u and v are used pretty much interchangeably

Keep those in mind and you can read a 1611. There's something really satisfying about reading the same writing as Christians from hundreds of years ago.

MJ. Smith

You left out the abbreviations based on a thorn which break most applications links and searches. 😎

ASUNDER

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1357037#Comment_1357037

Well I did now. The history makes sense. But like I said I'm hunting for the original for numerology.
I have read all four of those pdf's and looked at the introduction and concluded:

You are not an orc. 🙂

And also I still want to get my hands on the 1611.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1357030#Comment_1357030

Ya true. That's mostly why I started realizing something is up with this "Pure Cambridge Edition". How come I can read it?
…As a side note, I can't understand most of Old English but I can't read Hebrew or Greek either. And yet I have like 150 Greek and Hebrew works handed to me that I didn't ask for. … ? That's not a complaint but I'm not trying to scoop up the 1611 so I can read it, but so I can have it.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1357046#Comment_1357046

Ya ya, that's the one! 😀

They only let you download the new (standard) version though (for free). The 1611 version is sitting right there, already digitized, on the same website, but no, you're not allowed to have it. You can have a hundred different versions of the Bible. You can have all manner of article and commentary and literary work. All mostly for free. You can have anything you want at all, just not this. It's under lock and key in every place Bible's are distributed. Is there a reason they can't just let us have it? (Pictures of this work is not an ebook)

Fabian

Have you seen, they don't care on the transliteration about the smaller font? Today in italics or in [brackets]. You anyway would have to fix this. For the pure 1611. I guess they also lacks the footnotes.

MJ. Smith

Quoting myself:

If you read the history of the KJV in any of the resources he links to, you will understand that you are on a fool's mission/tilting windmills.

The concept of a "pure" 1611 King James Version (KJV) Bible is complicated by historical, textual, and practical factors. Here's a breakdown:

1. The Original 1611 KJV Had Immediate Variations

Printing errors and corrections: The first 1611 printings contained inconsistencies, such as:
- The "He" and "She" Bibles** ([17]): Early copies differed in Ruth 3:15 ("he went into the city" vs. "she went into the city") due to printing variances.
- Typos and revisions: For example, Matthew 26:36 originally read "Judas" instead of "Jesus" in some copies, later corrected by hand or in subsequent printings ([11][27]).
Multiple editions: At least two distinct 1611 editions (with recycled pages from earlier print runs) circulated, making the idea of a single "pure" text ambiguous ([20][21]).

2. Later Revisions Standardized the Text

Spelling and punctuation: The 1611 KJV used archaic spellings (e.g., "v" for "u") and inconsistent punctuation. Later editions (e.g., 1629, 1638, 1769) modernized these elements ([17][27]).
Word changes: Minor textual adjustments were made to correct errors or clarify meaning. For example:
- 1 John 2:23: The 1611 version omitted "of God," which was restored in 1629 ([15]).
- Deuteronomy 24:3: The 1769 edition standardized "nail" to "nails" ([27]).
Apocrypha removal: The original 1611 KJV included 14 Apocrypha books, omitted in most post-1885 editions ([12][28]).

3. Modern "1611" Bibles Are Facsimiles or Revisions

Facsimile editions (e.g.,[1][2][3][16][19]) reproduce the 1611 text but often:
- Use clearer modern typefaces while retaining archaic spellings.
- Include the Apocrypha, original marginal notes, and translators' preface.
- Are labeled "1611" but may combine elements from multiple early printings.
Commonly used KJV Bibles (e.g., 1769 Oxford edition) are revisions that differ significantly from the 1611 text in spelling, punctuation, and wording ([4][10][17]).

4. Why No "Pure" 1611 KJV Exists Today

No single authoritative original: The 1611 KJV was printed in multiple batches with variances, and no surviving copy is error-free ([11][20]).
Intentional revisions: The KJV translators themselves acknowledged the need for corrections in their preface ([5][17]).
Survival rarity: Few original 1611 Bibles exist, with most in museums or private collections ([20][21]). Even these often contain later corrections or recycled pages.

5. The KJV-Only Debate

"Pure Cambridge Edition" claims: Some groups argue the 1769/1900 text is the "pure" KJV, but this conflicts with the 1611-only position ([10][23]).
Theological disputes: Critics note that strict adherence to the 1611 text would require accepting the Apocrypha and original printing errors ([5][12][28]).

Conclusion

A "pure" 1611 KJV Bible, in the sense of an unchanged, error-free text identical to all original printings, does not exist. The 1611 KJV was revised almost immediately to correct errors, and modern editions reflect centuries of standardization. While facsimiles replicate the 1611 text, they often blend elements from multiple early printings or include later corrections. The KJV’s textual evolution highlights the balance between preserving historical authenticity and ensuring readability and accuracy.

Citations:
[1] https://www.thekjvstore.com/kjv-bibles/1611-edition-kjv-bibles/
[2] https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/kjv-bible-1611-edition-hendrickson-publishers/1140535644
[3] https://biblebuyingguide.com/1611-king-james-bible-regular-facsimile-edition/
[4] https://community.logos.com/discussion/5359/are-the-3-kjv-the-same
[5] https://sharperiron.org/article/best-cure-for-kjvoism-real-1611-kjv
[6] https://thecripplegate.com/whats-wrong-with-kjv-only/
[7] https://www.kingjamesbible1611.org
[8] https://apps.apple.com/us/app/1611-king-james-bible-version/id977184480
[9] https://www.thekjvstore.com/1611-king-james-bible-deluxe-facsimile-edition
[10] https://christianforums.net/threads/beware-of-altered-king-james-bibles.34208/
[11] https://queenslib.wordpress.com/2012/11/14/queens-college-old-librarys-copy-of-the-1611-king-james-bible-and-the-mystery-of-ruth-315/
[12] http://themileses.com/2017/06/27/probs-1611-kjv/
[13] https://www.biblestudymanuals.net/kjv3.htm
[14] https://www.reddit.com/r/TrueChristian/comments/18fa6pd/1611_king_james_where_to_buy/
[15] http://www.bibleprotector.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=85
[16] https://thebiblemuseum.com/product/1611-king-james-bible-super-deluxe-leather-pulpit-folio-size-edition/
[17] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_James_Bible
[18] https://thebiblemuseum.com/product/1611-king-james-bible-synthetic-leather-reference-edition/
[19] https://www.apmanuscripts.com/religious-texts/king-james-bible-1611-print
[20] https://www.mcelroyrarebiblecollection.com/1611leaves
[21] https://www.antiquebible.com/shop/p/1611-the-great-he-bible-first-edition-of-the-king-james-bible
[22] https://greatsite.com/shop/size-range/huge-pulpit-folios-15-18-tall/all-five-of-the-first-edition-pulpit-folio-king-james-bibles/
[23] https://www.jesus-is-lord.com/thebible.htm
[24] https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/1611-Bible/
[25] https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/1611-Bible/1611-King-James-Bible-Introduction.php
[26] https://www.reddit.com/r/Christianity/comments/et373d/i_recently_read_that_the_1611_kjv_has_the_only/
[27] https://av1611.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1416
[28] https://christianity.stackexchange.com/questions/65871/what-rationale-do-kjv-1611-only-give-for-not-recognizing-the-apocryphal-books-of
[29] https://www.reddit.com/r/Bible/comments/15xgryi/good_version_of_the_kjv/
[30] https://www.michaelrydelnik.org/blog/the-king-james-version-controversy
[31] https://www.patheos.com/blogs/biblicallyliterate/2017/10/the-king-james-bible-removed-verses/
[32] https://www.reddit.com/r/AcademicBiblical/comments/3am30w/accuracy_of_the_king_james_translation/
[33] https://av1611.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1095
[34] https://www.reddit.com/r/Bible/comments/q006g7/the_1611_original_king_james_bible/
[35] https://kjbhistory.com/authorized-the-use-and-misuse-of-the-king-james-bible/
[36] https://thelostbooks.org/the-missing-parts-of-the-king-james-bible/
[37] https://www.gotquestions.org/missing-verses.html

ASUNDER

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1357064#Comment_1357064

Thank you for that amazing body of work. I got some reading to do.

I want to make note of a fourth language. We have in chronological order: Hebrew, Greek, English, which has generated what we have today. These three together is the basis of our Christian knowledge. But when talking about history we forget about the first language; the universal language that was there before the other ones. Something that all men and angels can understand and communicate with, if nothing else.

God being three; there has to be each a body and a division between the persons. So that is the first number, the first language. Language being an expression of the will, proceeding forth in an energized ordered fashion. We have language because of order, so that it can be received as it was generated. If not the first number being Holy Trinity, then the Spirit moved on the face of the waters. So there are two things. If not that, when He created light, dividing it from the darkness, there was now two things. The first mathematical equation ; language. Some even say the flower of life and the Fibonacci sequence are God's perfect form.

The same God who numbered the hairs on our heads and counted the grains of sand and called the stars by name; is a mathematical genius, no doubt. He even challenged Job on the difference between Him and Job, using numbers as one of the defining characteristics between them. Job having no chance to match God's mathematical prowess. "Laid the foundation of the Earth" is sourced from the same great power as, "counted the grains of sand."

At the tower of babel, the old world order, the people spoke all one language, and they also knew their math. They cared about the bricks they were stacking more than the lives of the workers. Their construction acumen was excellent, knowing design, engineering, measurements. To the point that "nothing would be impossible for them." In this modern day, the new world order, we are seeing a similar thing in every way (including the caring of goals over people etc.), which is back to the foundation of the proliferation of high level math. Including an AI system that will rule the Earth, as Nimrod did.

Many of the behavior modification in the scriptures are a matter of degrees. 1 wife or multiple, this much money or that much. Rich toward God, 1,3,10 talents etc. All of these things are measured numbers.

…

So we have a Bible "version" that was created right before the population explosion. More people are alive today than all the generations in the past combined. This book was made right before the printing press, in the language that would dominate the entire world during this age of population.

There was Jesus' three inner circle. Peter, James, John. Peter being the elder to the Jews, the two Johns being the minister of the Holy Spirit. John the baptist: repent the kingdom of Heaven is here: cross = future event. John the apostle: The litmus test of the believer. cross = past event. But that leaves James. Interesting that the KJV bears that same name and is the only one with 'King' in the actual title. Being the elder to the gentiles, to complete the three in the circle. By far the best selling book in all of human history. The book that exists during the time that most people are alive, and this gospel will be preached to the ends of the Earth then the end will come. That gospel referenced is primarily in English, according to our current day when these events take place.

Recently there is the age of information. This computing age, where computers can scan the scriptures, in any language or version, and find patterns that without computers we would have never found. It was called the "Bible Codes" before, which is interesting but hasn't been that remarkable until very recently.

2 Chronicles 6:
17 Now then, O LORD God of Israel, let thy word be verified, which thou hast spoken unto thy servant David.
…

"Thy word be verified." This is what has caught my attention.

We use numbers in many ways to determine credentials. We use cryptography, open keys, air gapping, encryption, all manner of numbers and math to determine who someone is. Even with face scanning and fingerprints, if it's digital it's a number. And passwords are often a series of numbers. We are no stranger to using numbers to prove identity.

There are patterns that don't exist until you line up the Hebrew, Greek and KJV books together. Then you find patterns that appear when stacking all three of them. This doesn't happen with any other version. There are so many mind blowing patterns in only the KJV that don't exist at all in any other English version. Including the perfect number of Pi. And the "my words are pure; as refined seven times" : not only the 7 KJV versions but also verses that reveal patterns after you divide them by their prime numbers seven times.

And the "beware the leaven of the pharisees" is connected with the number 1611, continuing on in that pattern from there. A little leaven leavens the whole lump. It's possible in my mind that means the leaven of changing the Bible has leavened the whole world, starting with the original then changing all of it slowly over time, as leaven does.

If I'm going to talk to the atheists about probabilities of chance and exponential numbers, I'm bound by that same logic, being a gentile. Because if I'm not mistaken,

this sure looks like a fingerprint to me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQCcWphfNm4

MJ. Smith

I have a somewhat different perspective. I think of Hebrew as the divine/original/universal language in some form. I never trace the history of the Bible without including Syriac and Latin.