Should changing the Top Bible affect what is shown at the top of a smart-mode Bible Search?

Graham Criddle

Graham Criddle

This is with Logos 40.0 beta 3

I have run a smart search on my Top Bible and got a set of results

If I now change my Top Bible (to the LEB, for example), the search panel is updated to show that - but the search results still show the text of the previous Top Bible.

This seems confusing - is it intended?

Adam Borries (Logos)

Thanks for the report, Graham.
I think that is expected, since you haven't executed a new search after changing the Top Bible. We could of course automatically execute the new search; but we try to be cautious about that for AI features, so it doesn't accidentally use AI credits when the user doesn't mean to.

Either way, I'll raise this with the Search team for consideration.

Aaron Hamilton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1358933#Comment_1358933

Rather than executing a new search automatically to generate results from the new Bible, my expectation would be that the original Bible translation remain with the associated search results until a new search is executed.

Graham Criddle

Thanks for the response @Adam Borries (Logos)

I would agree with @Aaron Hamilton about expected behaviour

Rather than executing a new search automatically to generate results from the new Bible, my expectation would be that the original Bible translation remain with the associated search results until a new search is executed.

and it will be interesting to see what the team decide.

Ronny Woods (Faithlife)

Hi Folks—Just a quick note with my thoughts. We'll discuss this as a team, but at first glance I doubt we'll make a change here. I don't believe we want to re-execute the search automatically in this situation, and as long as we don't, it's clear that the heading above the search results should not change (since the search results are indeed still from the NIV). On the other hand, the toolbar is where you set parameters for your next search, so to me, it feels normal/expected that the toolbar can be out of sync with the results. You can, for instance, get into a similar state without changing your top bible, just by executing a smart search in one bible and then using the dropdown in the toolbar to switch to another bible (i.e. at that point, the bible in the toolbar won't match the bible in the results).

If we did decide it was important to prevent the bible in the toolbar from getting out of sync with the bible in the results, I think we would need to either:
1) Auto execute a new query anytime the bible is changed (@Adam Borries (Logos) mentioned the reason we opted not to auto-execute), or…

2) Clear the results (and show the cookbook) anytime a new Bible is selected.

Maybe you guys would advocate for one of these options to avoid the confusion?

Graham Criddle

Hi @Ronny Woods (Faithlife) - thanks for engaging with this.

 I don't believe we want to re-execute the search automatically in this situation

I agree - all I would have done is change my highest prioritised Bible, I wouldn't want it to update the search (or take any other action).

and as long as we don't, it's clear that the heading above the search results should not change (since the search results are indeed still from the NIV)

I also agree with that

On the other hand, the toolbar is where you set parameters for your next search, so to me, it feels normal/expected that the toolbar can be out of sync with the results.

I had never really thought about it that way as I would have expected both Bibles shown in the search panel to relate to the current search. And if I have run a search and then select a different Bible from the dropdown in the search panel a new search is automatically executed. So they do stay in sync.

You can, for instance, get into a similar state without changing your top bible, just by executing a smart search in one bible and then using the dropdown in the toolbar to switch to another bible (i.e. at that point, the bible in the toolbar won't match the bible in the results).

Is that actually the case? (I'm in the office at the moment and don't have access to the beta). My comment just above notes it doesn't work that way in Logos 39 with a precise search - is there an inconsistency here or has the precise search behaviour changed in Logos 40 as well?

If we did decide it was important to prevent the bible in the toolbar from getting out of sync with the bible in the results, I think we would need to either:

I see it differently - as the problem only arises with the "search Bible" changing when I change the preferred Bible. And I think it is more reasonable for that action to not impact a search panel where the search that was executed happened before that change.

Hope this makes sense….

Ronny Woods (Faithlife)

Is that actually the case?

Yes, Precise search will still auto-execute, as in v39, but we never "auto-execute" smart searches. The idea being that perhaps you're changing the bible but you also want to change the query, so we don't want to unnecessarily execute smart searches.

more reasonable for that action to not impact a search panel where the search that was executed happened before that change.

Ah yes, I guess I hadn't even considered that option … i.e. to hold off on changing the "top bible" in the toolbar, even though your top bible has indeed actually changed. So then when would you expect the top bible to actually change to LEB in your example scenario? i.e. let's say you executed a second search by simply entering a new query…which bible should be searched at that point? Still the NIV?

Graham Criddle

So then when would you expect the top bible to actually change to LEB in your example scenario? i.e. let's say you executed a second search by simply entering a new query…which bible should be searched at that point? Still the NIV?

That's a really good question!

If it simply executes against the NIV again - and continues to show that as the Top Bible - then it is displaying incorrect information. So it would need to change that display to just say NIV and not Top Bible.

I think that would be my preferred option - but I do recognise (more than I did before this conversation) that it's a difficult thing to decide!

Aaron Hamilton

I understand this situation better after reading through this discussion. It seems auto-executing the search would be most consistent to Precise search, but there are convincing reasons why this might not be the best approach. I don't have strong preferences on this.

Dave Hooton

If I expect the behaviour will be the same as Precise Search then I would not change preferred bible unless it was my intent to re-run the AI query. If it happened unexpectedly, then I would have learned what the behaviour is. But had I moved to a new project, activated another panel and changed preferred bible, why would the Search be executed on an inactive tab?

Aaron Hamilton

had I moved to a new project, activated another panel and changed preferred bible, why would the Search be executed on an inactive tab?

I didn't realize this was happening in Precise search before this discussion, but I see now that it is. However, I have no interest in making a case for Smart search functioning in the same way, because I don't think that would be the best solution to the problem raised in this thread (now that I understand it better, I'm not sure it is even a problem, per se).

Dave Hooton

I'm neutral because I never change preferred except when (rarely) testing a scenario for a user issue.😉