Is there a verse by verse commentary on the Apostolic Fathers in the L4 format?
The Hermeneia commentary series includes volumes on the Didache, the Letters of Ignatius and the Shepherd of Hermas.
The New Testament in the Apostolic Fathers (Oxford) isn't what you're looking for, but may be helpful depending on what you're wanting to check for. It has a detailed comparison of the greek in the NT with the equivalent greek in the Fathers (along with english commentary but specific to the parallels). The Hermeneia group already mentioned is VERY detailed, verse based and quite interesting for trying to understand the church in the 2nd and 3rd centuries. Additionally Hermeneia includes the later Apostolic Traditions, tracking it back against Didache, the Pastorals, etc.
Not a verse-by-verse commentary, but Patristic Study by Henry Barclay Swete does have general comments on each of the writings of the Church Fathers from the early centuries.
Another way to get "commentary" on specific verses of the Fathers is to look at others who quote and apply their writings. Calvin's Institutes, for example, is replete with quotes from and applications of the patristics, all citations footnoted and indexed in the MacNeill edition (which unfortunately is not the edition in Logos).
I have the NcNeill volumes but, only in the hard cover. Now these would be a nice addition to L4 - maybe, no, I will go and make that a suggestion, unless it's aleady been suggested.
It has already been suggested, but the more people request it the better.
Does any one know about this? The Apostolic Fathers; a new translation and commentary. [Edited by Robert M. Grant] I know the JBL has a review on it but I can not fully access the complete review. Maybe when the JBL is ready to be delivered in the L4 format we can see what it's like. Any one have these books?
This "new translation" is from 1966. Here are some excerpts from the JBL review:
The greatest emphasis throughout both volumes is devoted to assembling parallels, especially in Christian literature, and notation of parallels makes up the largest portion of the commentary. Schoedel, in his treatment of Polycarp to the Philippians, carries it even into the translation: "Words and phrases reflecting the language of the Bible and early Christian literature before the time of Polycarp are italicized. Where more or less clear contact with the actual text seems presupposed, quotation marks are used [as well]" (p. 7). So thoroughly are these parallels hunted out that very little Roman type is to be seen. All the references detected are footnoted.
Second to putting the student in touch with the ancient author's context, the commentaries aim at pointing out critical and exegetical problems and at directing the student to scholarly literature relevant to them. Schoedel is especially diligent in this last regard, summarizing conflicting arguments and possibilities on so many problematical issues that at times he has to be concise to the point of obscurity. One needs to read the works he is discussing in order to understand what is being said about them.
...
It is annoying to read on p. 5 of Grant's book that his rejection of a particular translation urged by Preiss and Bauer will be defended in the commentary and then to find that the commentary omits any discussion of the point at all. This kind of carelessness, however, is not common in either volume; when one considers the mass of material handled, the level of accuracy seems very high, which is as it should be in volumes as likely as these are to become standard tools of scholarship.
thanks.
Does any one know about this? The Apostolic Fathers; a new translation and commentary. [Edited by Robert M. Grant] I know the JBL has a review on it but I can not fully access the complete review. Maybe when the JBL is ready to be delivered in the L4 format we can see what it's like.Any one have these books?
This set, published in the mid-1960's by Thomas Nelson (!) is five volumes. You can pick up most of the vols fairly cheap on Amazon or AbeBooks. Note that most of the Barnabas volume, by Robert Kraft, is online: http://www.sas.upenn.edu/religious_studies/rak/publics/barn/barndidintro.htm. As someone earlier said, these have been suggested (I've suggested them many times internally) but *please* do suggest them again.
I have the Clement volume in this set and will probably also get the Barnabas volume and the Hermas volume for use as I work on my Apostolic Fathers Interlinear (http://bit.ly/ApFthInt , in a perfect world I'm through my draft of 1 Clement by ETS/SBL, which leaves only 2 Clem, Barnabas, Diognetus, and Hermas until I'm done). My experience with the volume is good, the commentary is brief. Translation top half of page, commentary bottom half. I think it is good introductory material that gets to the main points. It is brief; less like a technical commentary (Hermeneia/ICC) and more like a devotional-exegetical commentary (like a one-vol NT commentary would typically be).
Other non-Logos stuff includes an excellent set by J.B. Lightfoot that is a little hard to find. You typically find the one-vol Lightfoot & Harmer translation of the Apostolic Fathers, but Lightfoot also did two vols on Clement and three vols on Ignatius and Polycarp. He has editions of the Greek text, with notes, apparatus and commentary, as well as copious essays, lots of accumulation of sources that likely quote material from authors, translations, and other stuff. Good stuff, though sometimes he goes down rabbit trails that don't seem to matter much to the modern reader.
Also, as mentioned earlier in the thread, there are some Hermeneia volumes available (Didache, Ignatius, Hermas). I believe Michael W. Holmes is working on the Polycarp edition for Hermeneia, but no word has been given on how close that might be.
You can find some other stuff; Meecham did a critical edition, in English, of the Epistle to Diognetus in the mid-1940's, but it is hard to find. Many of the other commentaries are in German. If you check the front matter of an edition like Holmes or Ehrman, you'll see they have intros to each book/author. These intros typically list other materials, like commentaries and monographs, that have been helpful.
Hope it helps. If you have other questions in this area, feel free to ask me.
Thanks Rick. I guess your are the 'go to' guy after reading some stuff from you. Good luck with the sale of your book. Can you electronically sign mine when I buy it?
thanks again.
BUMP. It''s been a couple years and time to bring up the subject 'again'.
Grant's commentary on the apostolic fathers is just about the ONLY source for Clement 1/2 and maybe Polycarp/Papias (though the latter is heavily covered in many intros). I ran into it first reading Holmes and then Rick's work. Absent being an expert on the Apostolic Fathers you really do need a little assistance regarding 'which way they appear to be going'.
Being the subborn person I am, I took Rick up on his advice (buy on the internet). But hard copies are hard to tie down (the full set) and there's incorrect labeling on some of the volumes (a 1927 volume instead of Grant's).
Given Logos' great coverage on the AF's in general and with most of the AF writings sitting 'right next to' the NT text, more commentary coverage would be good (yes, I know about Hermeneia).
I have the Clement volume in this set and will probably also get the Barnabas volume and the Hermas volume for use as I work on my Apostolic Fathers Interlinear
I hold up the cross before your eyes. Begone, foul fiend !
I am desperate. I have tried to buy a copy of Grant's volume on Ignatius, but it is nowhere to be found. I tried Abe Book and Bookfinder. All to no avail. Does anyone have this book in digital format? There is not library on 500 miles around me that has this book. It is incredibly rare!
A title would be helpful.
Oh, I forgot to mention that I mean R. M. Grant, The Apostolic Fathers, vol. 4: Ignatius of Antioch. I had thought my comment would be posted in a discussion which already mentioned Grant's series, but it was posted at the end of the thread.
Emanuel Contac
Peace, Emanuel! Welcome to the Logos Community Forums! *smile* Please feel comfortable here and ask as many questions as you desire.
Many of us have extensive library resources on the Fathers, and we'd like to help as much as we can.
However, as George has shared with you, we need more information from you in order to be truly helpful.
Also, if this particular book that you are seeking cannot be located ... is there information re. Ignatius that we could share with you that would be helpful? Blessings!
I see you two are now "in discussion" ... so I'll "bow out"! *smile* Blessings!
Oh, I forgot to mention that I mean R. M. Grant, The Apostolic Fathers, vol. 4: Ignatius of Antioch. I had thought my comment would be posted in a discussion which already mentioned Grant's series, but it was posted at the end of the thread. Emanuel Contac
Perhaps I missed it. I seem to find everything but vol 4. Check for yourself.
http://used.addall.com/SuperRare/RefineRare.fcgi?start=0&id=130601132838096827&order=PRICE&ordering=ASC&dispCurr=USD&inTitle=Apostolic+fathers&inAuthor=grant&exTitle=&exAuthor=&inDesc=&exDesc=&match=Y&exaTitle=&exaAuthor=
There is not library on 500 miles around me that has this book. It is incredibly rare!
Don't libraries offer long distance loans where you live? I've borrowed books all the way from the US several times, and I'm in Sweden.
Any word on this?
It's been such a long time and there's been no movement I should edit the original post to read:
Is there a verse by verse commentary on the Apostolic Fathers in the L5 FORMAT?
MM.
Oh Milkman. You've stayed up too late with your milk (deliveries).
Of course there's a commentary!! And it's the best. It's just 'In development' (Lightfoot is probably the most quoted). I still use Grant (and it took me forever to assemble a complete set).
https://www.logos.com/product/27506/classic-studies-on-the-apostolic-fathers
I HOPE you got the $30 CP price!! I'm not sure what you mean by 'verse by verse'. Sentence by sentence? That'd be pretty hard to do since even Grant is section by section and then specific sentences.
Ha ha ha.
Hey Denise, fortunately I don't work Wednesday as people have their deliveries spread over two days a week. Monday and Thursday - Tuesday and Friday.
Nope I missed the $30 CP price. Man!
Well, I guess I better get running and sell more milk so I can buy that set of books you mentioned.