Accordance Research vs Logos Search All

Kristin

Hi everyone,

So I finally finished my Acc note export!!! So now I am starting to try to do my normal work in Logos and see how it goes. That said, I ran into an issue that I can't tell is a feature request or user error.

Specifically, in Accordance I use their "Research" function multiple times a day. I think this is equivalent to Logos' "Search All" if I am not mistaken.

Anyway, in Accordance on the left column I see not only all the categories, but also all the specific resources, and I can quickly jump between them with a mouse click. On the right side I see a preview of all my resources, and if I click on something it opens that resource.

By contrast in Logos, I see all the categories, but I don't see the actual resources unless I open the carrot. If I do, it shows me ALL the resources in a specific category in order, but it doesn't show the specific resources like Accordance, causing extreme scrolling. (I understand you can click on "Book" instead of "Type" but then you lose the categories which is not realistic).

Further, some resources focus on one thing or another, so in Accordance I can click on a specific commentary or whatever and skip resources which are not particularly relevant.

In Logos, however, I got bombarded with a commentary which is not addressing my research (Daily Dose) yet in order to even see what other commentaries discuss my topic, I had to scroll through every single Daily Dose entry, even though none of them were what I was looking for.

I am not sure if this is user error or not, so I will attach a screenshot of the same word searched in Logos and Accordance.

Is there a way to replicate what I am showing in Accordance? (which includes categories, specific resources, and preview of the resources).

Also, on a side note, let's say this is a feature request. If so, it would be worthless requesting it since it would just come out with new versions, which are subscription (which I am not willing to do). Is this correct, or will basic functionality also be added to v.10?

Thank you,

Kristin

Graham Criddle

I wonder if the Bible Word Study Guide is more what you are looking for.

Please note you can customise these guides to remove sections you don't want, and add in sections (from a defined set) if not already included.

Might that be more aligned to what you are used to?

Kristin

Hi @Graham Criddle,

Thank you for the response and screenshot. I just opened the Bible Word Study and just looking at it for a few minutes, it is for sure closer to what I need. If you don't mind, I have a few questions though.

First, my main concern with the Accordance "Research" is that it includes EVERYTHING in my library. So even if it is a random little book that makes a seemingly unrelated comment, it will still show up and then I can decide if it is important or not.

When I had previously asked about how to replicate the Accordance Research, I had been directed to the "Search —> All" function, which I hope also includes everything. With that all as a preface, I had been under the impression that these guides are showing "relevant" information about the searched word, but it is not including other resources which include the word. Is this correct? Or does this guide also include EVERYTHING in my library?

Second, when you mentioned that I can customize the guides to add or remove sections, could you clarify how to do this? My ultimate goal is for it to include everything under the sun and then some.

Thank you again.

Graham Criddle

When I had previously asked about how to replicate the Accordance Research, I had been directed to the "Search —> All" function, which I hope also includes everything.

It will search everything in the Logos catalog - but whether it is most helpful in this scenario is another issue.

With that all as a preface, I had been under the impression that these guides are showing "relevant" information about the searched word, but it is not including other resources which include the word. Is this correct?

That is correct

Second, when you mentioned that I can customize the guides to add or remove sections, could you clarify how to do this?

Open the panel menu and select the Edit this Guide option - which opens the panel on the right of the screenshot

Note that different types of Guide support different types of sections. The Passage Guide, for example, supports the Collection section that allows you to specify a collection that you want searching and that will return results for all books that mention the passage you are studying. But the Bible Word Study Guide doesn't support this option.

I wonder if, to give you more of what you are looking for, it would be worth having a number of Books Search panels open. In the screenshot below the top one is set to search all of my commentaries while the lower one is set to search all my monographs. Having the display set to Book view makes it easy to switch between books. For illlustration purposes I am showing one search below the other - in practice, I would probably have them stacked one behind another so I could easily cycle through them depending on which type of resource I was interested in

Does that help at all?

Kristin

Hi @Graham Criddle,

Thank you for the screenshots and for clarifying how to edit the guides. If I am understanding correctly, the guides in fact do only show relevant information, so if my goal is to hunt down obscure references, the guides won't work for that purpose.

The "search all" does in fact capture everything, including obscure references, but it is sort of difficult to manage. Thus, it is better to limit a search to "commentary" and then another search to "monograph" (as example), and then it will capture everything but in a more manageable presentation. Is this correct?

Also, if I am understanding correctly, there is no way to have the resources appear on the left (like the Accordance pic I posted), is that correct? In your screenshot of monographs, for example, if you are scrolling through them and get to the 41st resource, to get to the top you need to scroll to the top. Is this correct? Further, there does not seem to be a grab bar on the side, is that also correct or am I missing something?

I have a class soon so it will be a bit before I will be able to respond, but I really appreciate your help with this.

DMB

While Kristin is in class, for reference, here's how Accordance works (my library's limited). On the left, one can quickly choose the book; on the right one scrolls through the whole search.

The only way I could sort of get an Accordance look, below, a book search, and drag-drop selected book's snippet to another tab. Much like Graham's last.

Aaron Hamilton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1361420#Comment_1361420

Thank you for asking these questions @Kristin. It's interesting to see how Accordance organizes their search results and to hear about aspects of it that you find helpful.

if I am understanding correctly, there is no way to have the resources appear on the left (like the Accordance pic I posted), is that correct?

I like the approach of limiting the search in Logos to specific filters. I can see how it would allow one to work through a list in a more organized manner. It does take up quite a bit of screen space, however, so multiple monitors become very helpful.

I have taken the approach here of opening multiple, increasingly targeted, searches. Therefore I can maintain an overview of all of the search results while navigating through the results of a specific resource on the right. When I finish searching through that resource, I can change the search on the right to look through the next resource. A quick way to limit the search to a specific resource is to open that resource and then select it in search from the list of open books. This last step would not be necessary for resources with only few results.

This method may take a bit longer than Accordance, where one must simply click on the title of the book. But it seems to pretty much accomplish the same thing if I am understanding correctly.

Kristin

While Kristin is in class, for reference, here's how Accordance works (my library's limited). On the left, one can quickly choose the book; on the right one scrolls through the whole search.

Hi @DMB,

Thank you for the screenshots, as I am sure it is helpful for everyone to see how Accordance organizes it. I truly love how I can see all of the categories and all the resources under it without needing to scroll.

> The only way I could sort of get an Accordance look, below, a book search, and drag-drop selected book's snippet to another tab. Much like Graham's last.

For some reason that little quote thing only sometimes works for me (I am sure it is user error, but anyway), regarding this, I just tried dragging and dropping things to the right and that worked well. However, since Logos doesn't show a preview of what your mouse is on (as Accordance does in your screenshot), it seems like the only way to see the resources is to click that little carrot literally hundreds of times. Or is there an expand all?

Also, regarding the "book search" I have personally found the book search to be the least practical since it doesn't recognize a distinction from texts, commentaries, lexicons, etc. So in order to get to anything relevant I need to mindlessly scroll past all the random Bible versions, which is obviously not practical.

Thank you for asking these questions @Kristin. It's interesting to see how Accordance organizes their search results and to hear about aspects of it that you find helpful.

Hi @Aaron Hamilton,

Thank you for letting me know! :)

I like the approach of limiting the search in Logos to specific filters. I can see how it would allow one to work through a list in a more organized manner. It does take up quite a bit of screen space, however, so multiple monitors become very helpful.

Ya, the way Accordance organizes resources is really helpful. I find that I can do research in Accordance significantly faster than in Logos. While I do think that I would get better with Logos the more I work with it, I can already tell that if I am in a crunch I would go to Accordance simply because they organize resources in a way which is far more efficient. Regarding multiple monitors, ya, I have two, and in Accordance I have several workspaces with multiple columns open on one monitor, and other workspaces open on the other monitor. So Logos' "one layout" issue is really the most difficult hurdle I have found. I find that if I am doing hardcore research I truly need to use Accordance for the multiple workspaces. Today I was so desperate I even tried the web version to see if I can use it as another layout open at the same time, but it truly didn't work. It not only didn't have a parallel function, but all my layouts were gone. :/

I have taken the approach here of opening multiple, increasingly targeted, searches. Therefore I can maintain an overview of all of the search results while navigating through the results of a specific resource on the right. When I finish searching through that resource, I can change the search on the right to look through the next resource. A quick way to limit the search to a specific resource is to open that resource and then select it in search from the list of open books. This last step would not be necessary for resources with only few results.

Hi @Aaron Hamilton, thank you for the screenshot with this, that was helpful. When I first read it, it sounded impractical because of how I often do research. Here is a sort of simplistic example, but I think it will give the idea. So just taking Job's name as this example, in Accordance I am doing research and looking at stuff, and let's say I am half way through looking. I am not done by any means, but I get to HALOT who says, "bla bla bla … cf. Ug. ayḫ, " and I think to myself, "That's interesting." So I right click on ayḫ and click "Research, and go to the Ugaritic occurrences I have in my library. I then make note of that, and then realize that I am seeing information I would like to investigate further. So I detach the tab and it does NOT become a floating window, but a full-fledged workspace which I can move to another monitor, or minimize, or do whatever. Then I go back to my Job study and pickup where I was. I feel like the whole Logos program is sort of designed for someone to be tunnel visioned on one thing and to not be researching two things with them both opened. Actually, typing this out something occurred to me which "might" be a quasi solution. Perhaps if I am researching Job and then when I get to HALOT, instead of clicking on ayḫ, I rather save the Job layout. THEN after saving the layout, I then click on ayḫ and then resave the Ugaritic layout. Then close the Ugaritic layout and then re-open the first Job layout where I was. Would that work? It is a little bit obnoxious that they can't both be open at the same time, but it seems that would be a way to productively chase rabbit trails without losing my original research. Is this correct?

This method may take a bit longer than Accordance, where one must simply click on the title of the book. But it seems to pretty much accomplish the same thing if I am understanding correctly.

I certainly hope so. I am under the impression I do "Research" in Accordance more than @DMB, but I am sure she would be able to clarify this.

Aaron Hamilton

Perhaps if I am researching Job and then when I get to HALOT, instead of clicking on ayḫ, I rather save the Job layout. THEN after saving the layout, I then click on ayḫ and then resave the Ugaritic layout. Then close the Ugaritic layout and then re-open the first Job layout where I was. Would that work?

Yes, I can see how utilizing layouts could be an important part of the solution for you. There are limitations in trying to use Logos to accomplish something in the same way that Accordance would. I expect there is great discussion to be had regarding optimal processes for OL study within Logos. Unfortunately, I would not be qualified to meaningfully contribute to such a discussion.

Graham Criddle

Also, regarding the "book search" I have personally found the book search to be the least practical since it doesn't recognize a distinction from texts, commentaries, lexicons, etc. So in order to get to anything relevant I need to mindlessly scroll past all the random Bible versions, which is obviously not practical.

This is why, in my examples above, I showed multiple search tabs with each one focusing on different types of texts. I did this by entering type:monograph, type:commentary etc into the "books selector" at the top left of the panel

Kristin

Yes, I can see how utilizing layouts could be an important part of the solution for you. There are limitations in trying to use Logos to accomplish something in the same way that Accordance would. I expect there is great discussion to be had regarding optimal processes for OL study within Logos. Unfortunately, I would not be qualified to meaningfully contribute to such a discussion.

Hi @Aaron Hamilton,

I agree with this assessment. I truly believe both programs provide vital and unique needs to specific types of work.

Btw, I decided to try what we were talking about on this thread, so when I needed to look at every biblical instance of Job's name in Hebrew, I wound up needing to stop and go to Accordance for a few visual reasons. I thus have a few questions and will attach a screenshot:

1) The Hebrew word אִיֹּ֖וב had been searched for and was thus auto-set to yellow. Logos also did this for "Job" which is ok, but any time my mouse scrolled over anything that word in both the Hebrew and ESV were ALSO set to yellow. Is there a way for these two colors to be different, to distinguish between searched words and random words being hovered over?

2) As an example, הֲשַׂ֥מְתָּ was highlighted by 27 people. What does this mean? With all of the users of Logos over the course of decades, it seems like thousands if not millions of people have highlighted it. Who are these 27 people? If I highlight it will it then say 28 people?

3) The little defs on the bottom (the Accordance Instant Details, but I can't remember the name), are in both English and German. Is there a reason for this? Also, is it possible to make that text bigger? It is super small compared to the actual text. I don't think so but figured I would make sure.

4) When I work, I always have my text to the left. In this case I was searching a Hebrew word, yet the ESV was on the left. I finally opened a new tab and opened only the Hebrew, then I added the ESV as a parallel, but the ESV still placed itself on the left. Is there a way to change the order of which text is on the left vs right? I tried clicking the little parallel icon, but that seemed to only show options of parallels and not the actual text.

I can attach a screenshot in case it is helpful.

This is why, in my examples above, I showed multiple search tabs with each one focusing on different types of texts. I did this by entering type:monograph, type:commentary etc into the "books selector" at the top left of the panel

Hi @Graham Criddle,

Thank you for clarifying this, and that makes sense. I will play around with it and save a layout of it.

Graham Criddle

1) The Hebrew word אִיֹּ֖וב had been searched for and was thus auto-set to yellow. Logos also did this for "Job" which is ok, but any time my mouse scrolled over anything that word in both the Hebrew and ESV were ALSO set to yellow. Is there a way for these two colors to be different, to distinguish between searched words and random words being hovered over?

3) The little defs on the bottom (the Accordance Instant Details, but I can't remember the name), are in both English and German. Is there a reason for this? Also, is it possible to make that text bigger? It is super small compared to the actual text. I don't think so but figured I would make sure.

I got different colours for searches and hovering over the text as below, and I don't see any German glosses. What Hebrew text are you using?

And we can't adjust the size of the popup at the bottom - but the same details are available in the Information Tool

2) As an example, הֲשַׂ֥מְתָּ was highlighted by 27 people. What does this mean? With all of the users of Logos over the course of decades, it seems like thousands if not millions of people have highlighted it. Who are these 27 people? If I highlight it will it then say 28 people?

These popular highlights are described here

4) When I work, I always have my text to the left. In this case I was searching a Hebrew word, yet the ESV was on the left. I finally opened a new tab and opened only the Hebrew, then I added the ESV as a parallel, but the ESV still placed itself on the left. Is there a way to change the order of which text is on the left vs right? I tried clicking the little parallel icon, but that seemed to only show options of parallels and not the actual text.

This sounds strange.

The book you start with should always remain in the left and parallel texts are added to its right.

You can reorder the parallel texts by dragging / dropping in the parallel text menu - but this doesn't impact the book on the left. So I'm not seeing what you are describing

Andrew Batishko

The little defs on the bottom (the Accordance Instant Details, but I can't remember the name), are in both English and German. Is there a reason for this?

The glosses come from the book you are hovering your mouse in. In this particular case, that book is a German book (check the front matter) and therefore the glosses are in German.

I can't recall if the English ones are also provided by the book (if the book provides both) or if those are coming from Logos' generic glosses.

Aaron Hamilton

@Kristin

1) Highlighting color in this instance cannot be changed. Different colors show depending on which options are selected. Also, the color is affected when options overlap. You can play around with the Corresponding words options to see what works best for you. The highlights can be turned off entirely or set to Click instead of Hover.

2) I only have guesses. Popular highlights are specific to resources. So if you have a less common resource open, the total number of popular highlights will be smaller. Also, I expect this number is affected by the range of what is being highlighted. Perhaps it only includes users who have only highlighted those exact word(s), not more and not less. You could certainly try highlighting the same word(s) and see if it (eventually) ups those numbers by one. Your internet would have to be enabled in settings for this to work. The data is not personal, so there is no way one could figure out who made the highlights.

Kristin

I got different colours for searches and hovering over the text as below, and I don't see any German glosses. What Hebrew text are you using?

Hi @Graham Criddle, I am using the BHS.

The book you start with should always remain in the left and parallel texts are added to its right.

Ok, I wound up closing everything and starting over, and this time when I opened the Hebrew first it stayed on the left, so it seems to have resolved itself. Thank you also for the popular highlights link.

And we can't adjust the size of the popup at the bottom - but the same details are available in the Information Tool

Thank you for clarifying this. I had forgotten about the info tool. I had previously gotten to "information" from the three dots, but that just showed publisher info, so I will remember those two "information" things are distinct.

The glosses come from the book you are hovering your mouse in. In this particular case, that book is a German book (check the front matter) and therefore the glosses are in German.

Hi @Andrew Batishko,

Thank you for clarifying this, and that makes sense.

Also, regarding the highlight color of words being hovered vs searches which have been run, it reminded me of the Greek text issue. The text is littered with highlights which I did not create. It not only makes the text difficult to see since it is multicolored, but the highlights don't seem to have a logic. What are these highlights from?

Aaron Hamilton

Also, regarding the highlight color of words being hovered vs searches which have been run, it reminded me of the Greek text issue. The text is littered with highlights which I did not create. It not only makes the text difficult to see since it is multicolored, but the highlights don't seem to have a logic. What are these highlights from?

Somewhere you have a setting enabled that is locating and highlighting those words. You might try turning off visual filters to see if that solves your problem.

Kristin

Hi @Aaron Hamilton ,

Thank you for the screenshot, and that fixed it. :) Also, the option of visual filters I have are different from yours. Where did your list of visual filters come from? Likewise, the visual filter option I have is not on your list.

Btw, regarding the color being the same for searched words and words being hovered over, I can't find this in settings anywhere, yet obviously it is an option to change those two given that @Graham Criddle's search vs hover colors are different. Does anyone have an idea how to fix this?

Donovan R. Palmer

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1361469#Comment_1361469

There were some things that I liked Accordance for when it came to Original Language Studies, but when it came to Universal Searches, I have always preferred Logos’s approach using sort by type or Graham’s method.

I haven’t been doing this for a while, but in my formal studies I seem to recall I would click on the link while holding down the shift button and it would open in a new tab. That way I could quickly go down the list.

This likely won’t help in your OL studies, but we also now have AI summaries to help you know if you want to open the resource too.

DMB

I always sort title, since all my titles are edited to group (commentary by book, Bibles, OL, and so forth). If I remember, grouping doesn't sort book within group. And separate searches are a pain.

Aaron Hamilton

Btw, regarding the color being the same for searched words and words being hovered over, I can't find this in settings anywhere

Did you also see my screenshot showing Emphasize and Corresponding Words under the visual filters button? My comment there addressed this question. I am assuming you do not have the subscription, which is why I am sending you these screenshots specifically, as the toolbar with the subscription is different.

The visual filters included in the screenshot I shared are not my own. You can create your own visual filters. They will show up here instead of the ones included in my screenshot.

Kristin

I haven’t been doing this for a while, but in my formal studies I seem to recall I would click on the link while holding down the shift button and it would open in a new tab. That way I could quickly go down the list.

Hi @Donovan R. Palmer,

Could you clarify this? I tried replicating this and can't figure it out. (I am also just curious, but I agree it likely wouldn't help with my OL work.

I always sort title, since all my titles are edited to group (commentary by book, Bibles, OL, and so forth). If I remember, grouping doesn't sort book within group. And separate searches are a pain.

Hi @DMB,

Thanks for letting me know, and this also makes me wonder about those "prioritized books" in the Library. Does messing with that effect any of this? Could I add everything except Bible translations to that prioritized list?

Did you also see my screenshot showing Emphasize and Corresponding Words under the visual filters button? My comment there addressed this question. I am assuming you do not have the subscription, which is why I am sending you these screenshots specifically, as the toolbar with the subscription is different.

Hi @Aaron Hamilton,

Yes, and I find the corresponding words super helpful. Thank you for the screenshot. You are correct that I don't have a subscription, so I appreciate the screenshots.

The visual filters included in the screenshot I shared are not my own. You can create your own visual filters. They will show up here instead of the ones included in my screenshot.

Ok, thanks for clarifying, and that is interesting that I can create my own visual filters. I will look into that.

Graham Criddle

Thanks for letting me know, and this also makes me wonder about those "prioritized books" in the Library. Does messing with that effect any of this? Could I add everything except Bible translations to that prioritized list?

Unlikely - prioritisation affects things like lookups and guides (so would affect the order lexicons appear in the Lemma section of a Bible Word Study Guide), it doesn't affect searches

Kristin

Hi @Graham Criddle,

Ok, thanks for clarifying. If I am understanding correctly if I prioritize books they will show up first, but it won't change which books actually show.

Graham Criddle

Hi @Kristin

If I am understanding correctly if I prioritize books they will show up first, but it won't change which books actually show.

In general, that is true.

There are some edge conditions - such as:

• The Lookup section in the context menu shows your five highest prioritised dictionaries / lexicons with an entry on the word you are looking at. So ones with lower priorities won't show
• Similarly if you are using the Text Comparison Tool on your Top Bibles, it will only show your five highest prioritised Bibles

So it has an impact - but doesn't affect searches.

Kristin

Hi @Graham Criddle,

Thank you for clarifying this. Before I got your response, I actually tried to add all the books I don't have somewhere else to the priority list, but the system actually cut me off. So I guess that speaks to the books I have in Logos, and also that I need to use the priority list how it was designed. Thank you again for clarifying this.