how do I set a lemma range in the Hebrew text?

Kristin · 2025-03-25T00:34:03+00:00

There was an error rendering this rich post.

I have been working on a specific word in Accordance, and I decided to try to work in Logos. I searched for the lemma and confirmed the count from my current work, and after doing so, I wanted to set the range. I am working in the Hebrew text, which obviously ends in 2Chr, and I want to set my range in the Hebrew text from Ps to 2Chr.

So where it said "All Passages" i tried to type ps-2ch which did nothing. I then tried (Ps-2Chron) matching the examples in the dropdown, but that didn't work either.

I thus have three questions:

1) How do I set the range for it to find all hits of the lemma from Ps to 2Chr in the Hebrew text?

2) Why does the dropdown say "Kethuvim (1Chron-Neh)? Obviously Nehemiah does not come after Chronicles in the Hebrew text. My goal above with the range of Ps-2Chr is to find all hits from Ps to the end of the text, in the Hebrew Bible.

3) What does "LC" mean in this context? It seems to be Leningrad Codex, but that wouldn't make sense since I am in the BHW and that is more specific than the codex generally.

Thank you, and attached is a screenshot.

Bildschirmfoto 2025-03-24 um 19.16.54.png

Find more posts tagged with

Accepted answers

All comments

MJ. Smith

The LC referred to the verse map (pattern of chapters and verses) used for the Bible. The wiki has a list of the verse maps and the resources that use them.

For the common divisions, if you apply the common division, it should work correctly unless a bug has been entered fairly recently. The range shown IIRC is based upon the sequence of books in the Bible in which the range was defined - it is not adjusted here to the bible you are using although it is adjusted when running the search.

Anon

1) How do I set the range for it to find all hits of the lemma from Ps to 2Chr in the Hebrew text?

I had difficulty with setting the range in this text initially; but, I had success with the following: typing 2 ch-ps

2) Why does the dropdown say "Kethuvim (1Chron-Neh)? Obviously Nehemiah does not come after Chronicles in the Hebrew text. My goal above with the range of Ps-2Chr is to find all hits from Ps to the end of the text, in the Hebrew Bible.

1 and 2 Chron. precede Ps. in the Hebrew book order.

As for number three of your list—I'm not certain.

Edit: I see MJ has answered number 3 on your list.

MJ. Smith

To expand on ny answer above: If you create your own range, simply follow the order of the Bible i.e. the TOC. Or you may use a predefined range which states the range in the Bible it was created in, not in the Bible you are looking at. While it is translated correctly through the verse map to the correct range in the Bible you are searching on, it is not translated in the drop down.

Kristin

I had difficulty with setting the range in this text initially; but, I had success with the following: typing 2 ch-ps

Hi @Anon,

Oh my gosh, it is following the ESV word order. :( My understanding is that whatever the "leading" text it would be followed. :(

1 and 2 Chron. precede Ps. in the Hebrew book order.

Respectfully, that isn't the case. That is the book order for OT (as in the "Hebrew" part of the ESV, but the book order is totally different for the actual Hebrew text.

Attached is a screenshot of the book order of the ESV and Hebrew text. Also, I did go to my bookshelf and pull out my paper copy of the Tanach, and it follows the screenshot I am providing.

Bildschirmfoto 2025-03-24 um 20.21.27.png

MJ. Smith

Respectfully, that isn't the case. That is the book order for OT (as in the "Hebrew" part of the ESV, but the book order is totally different for the actual Hebrew text.

Correct if you are creating your own range; may not be correct if you are using a predefined range.

Kristin

Hi @Anon,

Sorry, I just re-looked at your screenshot and I see it isn't even following the ESV, but yet ANOTHER version? So there is the ESV ending in Mal, then the normal Hebrew ending in 2Chr (like any paper Tanach), and now there is a THIRD version of the book order ending in Neh? This is a huge problem, so ANY work I have done in the Hebrew in Accordance (which follows the normal Tanach order) will not translate here.

MJ. Smith

The Logos predefined ranges use the "normal" (i.e. non-Sephardic) order.

Logos tries to indicate unusual ranges as in my saved ranges Greek Esther gets a verse map note as does Jeremiah et al.

Kristin

Hi @MJ. Smith,

Your screenshot is in Mark 1:11, and the NA and ESV have the same mapping. Perhaps someone who knows Hebrew and has used a paper Tanach can chime in, as obviously it is very disorienting to read a Hebrew text using something other than the Tanach book order.

DMB

I don't quite understand the struggle (so I'm probably misunderstanding). The easy way I transfer hebrew ranges, is first I just do a dummy search (using your example) using BHS and Psa-2Ch. Then I go over to BHW, and do a real search … the BHS range is there for me to choose (in the drop-down; see below). Sort of what MJ was illustrating, but the dummy (me) way.

Kristin

I don't quite understand the struggle (so I'm probably misunderstanding). The easy way I transfer hebrew ranges, is first I just do a dummy search (using your example) using BHS and Psa-2Ch. Then I go over to BHW, and do a real search … the BHS range is there for me to choose (in the drop-down; see below). Sort of what MJ was illustrating, but the dummy (me) way.

Hi @DMB,

Thank you for the screenshot, but I am still having difficulty. I think I have four questions:

1) If I am understanding correctly, the Hebrew texts in Logos (BHW, BHS) in fact DO follow normal Hebrew Tanach book orders, and so the BHW and BHW in Logos follow the Hebrew and have 2Chr as the last book in the Tanach. Is this correct? I hope so.

2) I can't reproduce your screenshot. If I create a search and go to morph, I can't type in either Psa-2Chr, or BHW and Psa-2Chr or BHS and Psa-2Chr, so could you clarify how you created this range?

3) There is no way to simply set a range reading the text. To do so, I need to create a separate search, create a range (which at the moment I can't do, but once I can), then after that Logos will save it so then I can use it later. Is this correct?

4) I think you know the Accordance "Range" function, where I can just create a range for whatever I want on the spot without an issue. In Logos, I would need to create a set range for everything. So if I want Ps-2Chr, I need to create and save the range, but then if I want Job-2-Chr, I need to go back to the search function, run a sort of bogus search to create a range, save it, then go back and apply it? If I think of the 39 books of the Tanach, it would be pretty intense creating all sorts of range options.

In case it helps, here is another screenshot of my attempt to replicate what you described.

Bildschirmfoto 2025-03-24 um 23.20.50.png

Anon

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1364024#Comment_1364024

Kristin,

No problem, I ought to have worded, "1 and 2 Chron. precede Ps. in the Hebrew book order.", as …in the BHW 4.18 book order (TOC). That would have been far less confusing as a statement—seeing as I had highlighted the TOC—apologize for creating confusion.

I believe BHW is the only resource to have that ordering (1 and 2 Chron. preceding Ps.)—and most likely then why it didn't understand the search range of Ps.-2 Chron. as a valid search range within its text.

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1364028#Comment_1364028

It makes absolutely no difference what my Bible is open to when it comes to setting ranges for a search - I didn't even think to look at it. Sorry for confusing you.

it is very disorienting to read a Hebrew text using something other than the Tanach book order.

Talmudic or Tiberian? One thing that one can safely say about any Biblical canon is that it is presented in different sequences in different locations and time. I use Tanakh order as a shortcut meaning JPS order.

MJ. Smith

@Anon

I ought to have worded,
"1 and 2 Chron. precede Ps. in the Hebrew book order."
,

Huh? In the Christian Bible sequence that is true; in the Hebrew or the Tanakh it is not true.

I believe BHW is the only resource to have that ordering (1 and 2 Chron. preceding Ps.)—and most likely then why it didn't understand the search range of Ps.-2 Chron. as a valid search range within its text.

You are correct that unless you specify the version in your references, when you define a reference rather than pick one, you must define it in terms of the book, chapter, verse of the book you are building the range in.

Anon

MJ,

Huh? In the Christian Bible sequence that is true; in the Hebrew or the Tanakh it is not true.

Apparently, I have confused you.

What you cited, in-part, was my referring to the BHW 4.18 TOC as provided in my initial post screenshot—having nothing to do at all with a sequence being true or not true.

Kristin

Hi everyone, so I think I finally figured it out. So just assuming nothing, I decided to just literally scroll down to the end and have concluded the following:

the BHS uses the traditional Jewish order of the Hebrew Bible
the HMT (in Accordance) uses the traditional Jewish order of the Hebrew Bible
the BHW follows the morphology of the HMT, but does not follow the traditional Jewish order of the Hebrew Bible
so if I start going through a word in Accordance, and want to move to Logos to finish it, I need to finish it with the BHS if I am setting a range.

So instead of starting with the BHS, I tried setting the normal Jewish Tanach range order of Ps-2Chr in the BHS and it worked. It just literally never occurred to me that the BHW would use something other than the traditional book ordering. So I guess I will just use the BHS. I checked it and in my HMT where I have 50 hits from Ps-2Chr, and the BHS also shows that.

I am relieved that it works in the BHS, and I will just avoid ranges entirely with the BHW.

MJ. Smith

If you use the predefined ranges i.e. Kethuvim, you will get the same results regardless of the sequence the books are printed. You don't need to start in one book and reuse it in another.

Francis

@Kristin just making sure you are clear on how to easily consult the TOC (table of contents):

You can easily see the book order in BHW and BHS.

DMB

@Kristin

Personally, just stick with BHS, LHB, and LHI. They all use the 'hebrew Bible' sequence.

BHW used to be recommended by staff at Faithlife. But then staff left … Accordance is more recent. Judging from comments about Accordance updating, looks like both are sort of trying to stay afloat on OL.

Kristin

If you use the predefined ranges i.e. Kethuvim, you will get the same results regardless of the sequence the books are printed. You don't need to start in one book and reuse it in another.

Hi @MJ. Smith, that is good to know, and makes sense, but I very rarely use pre-set ranges.

@Kristin just making sure you are clear on how to easily consult the TOC (table of contents):

Hi @Francis, Thank you for the screenshot! :) No, I wasn't aware of this, and ya, that is a far better way to confirm the book order.

Personally, just stick with BHS, LHB, and LHI. They all use the 'hebrew Bible' sequence. BHW used to be recommended by staff at Faithlife. But then staff left … Accordance is more recent. Judging from comments about Accordance updating, looks like both are sort of trying to stay afloat on OL.

Hi @DMB, I am still finding it all confusing, as I had thought that BHW was the updated version to BHS (having better more updated tagging than the BHS), but I went back to the thread where Doug Mangum showed a screenshot of the BHW and BHS and said "For academic work, I always use BHS (unless BHQ is available)." So hopefully I am understanding this ok and it is safe to just use the BHS.