Wow! Another resource problem

I am really trying to be understanding and not critical, but here's the problem:

I have double checked this on three systems, one Win and two Mac. I have rebuilt indexes just to make sure. I am using Hermeneia Joel and Amos. I ran a PG on Joel 2:32. When I click on the Joel Amos link it takes me to the Joel section at Joel 3:5. Okay that's a little odd, but maybe not considering there is not a section specifically addressing 2:32. But there is a Joel 2:27 and 3:1. Why go to 3:5?

Now hover over over the 5* section header in the Joel commentary. The pop-up says Joel 3:5 in the reference but the quoted text is Joel 2:32 and the link also takes you there. Not good, but may it is just an anomaly.

Now, two sentences into that paragraph is a reference to Joel 3:3-4. The reference in the pop-up is correct but the quoted text and the link are to Joel 2:30-31. Any Joel references in that section to the latter half of ch. 2 or ch. 3 are wrong.

In the section before 5, sections 3-4*, section 3:1*, and many of the links in those section to the aforementioned Joel references are wrong. That is as far as I have checked as I really do not have the time today to run down these oversights.

These are far too many errors to report as typos so I am hoping a Logos rep will see this and report it to the proper people.

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Comments

Mark Smith

The 'problem' is that the Hebrew Bible numbers Joel differently than the English versions. The Commentary follows the Hebrew text. Joel 2:32 doesn't exist in the Hebrew Bible, it is actually 3:5 in the Hebrew Bible. Perhaps this, and the required changes in linking to keep up with the Commentary text, are the explanations of this behavior.

Mike Aubrey

Here's blog post from 2007 that surveys that challenges of varying versification systems in the Bible:

http://blog.logos.com/archives/2007/07/books_chapters.html.

Sometimes the amount of variation in verse and chapter numbering from version to version is rather overwhelming.

Michael McLane

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/184186#Comment_184186

Thanks Mark, I was not aware of that difference. It does seem that there should be some allowance for this kind of thing or some indicator of what is happening for those that are not as familiar the kind of thing that you mentioned.

Thanks Michael, for the additional information. I can imagine it is overwhelming.

Mark Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/184193#Comment_184193

It does seem that there should be some allowance for this kind of thing or some indicator of what is happening for those that are not as familiar the kind of thing that you mentioned.

It can be confusing when you run into it for the first time. Actually the Joel Commentary has a note on this in the 'Editor's Note' before the actual commentary text. I've copied it below. It refers to an expanded reference scheme in the commentary chapter headings for Joel which you can see below in the second screen shot.

Would I expect you to have read that or noticed it? No. The fact is that probably most commentaries in Logos follow the English text not the Hebrew (the NICOT for example) and you would never see the issue you see here in Hermeneia. The fewer commentaries that are based directly on the underlying Hebrew will show these differences (Word Biblical Commentary does). File it away for the next time you get anomalous results in the OT.

Michael McLane

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/184193#Comment_184193

With all the struggles that this software presents for me or more appropriately its spotlight on my inadequacies at trying to grasp it all, I feel like giving up for a while. It has frustrated me and made me impatient. As much as I like it, it has been a huge distraction. I do not wish to be that way. I try to do my part and just realize how much I do not know or understand.

I need to get back to bound books, pen and paper. Thanks for the patience and understanding.

spitzerpl

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/184200#Comment_184200

With all the struggles that this software presents for me or more appropriately its spotlight on my inadequacies at trying to grasp it all, I feel like giving up for a while. It has frustrated me and made me impatient. As much as I like it, it has been a huge distraction. I do not wish to be that way. I try to do my part and just realize how much I do not know or understand.

I need to get back to bound books, pen and paper. Thanks for the patience and understanding.

Thank you for the good nature you showed here while being frustrated. And thank you for caring more about learning the Word of God and having God's character then learning a piece of software. If working with something moves someone away from who God wants them to be then I would certainly not discourage them from stepping away from it. If that is what you need to do then I hope down the road you'll be able to step back in.

Vincent Setterholm

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/184200#Comment_184200

I need to get back to bound books

If you were using the paper copy of this commentary, you'd have to ferret out the correct verse on your own. We hope there is some benefit to the software helping solve these issues for you.

I'm running the 4.2 beta, so it's not easy for me to verify that this is exactly how the pop-up displays in 4.1, but this is what I see on a reference to Joel 3:5 in the BHS numbering - note how the label at the bottom tells you what versification system it is using (it might only do this if the versification is different from your preferred Bible), labeling that the Joel 3:5 reference comes from the BHS, but is displaying in the ESV, while you can see the ESV verse number rendered in the main body of the pop-up (perhaps it would be an improvement to also render the chapter number, when it differs, but what else could we do to make this better? Do the pop-up labels need to be more verbose, such as 'BHS Joel 3:5 = ESV Joel 2:32'?):

Mark Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/184200#Comment_184200

With all the struggles that this software presents for me or more appropriately its spotlight on my inadequacies at trying to grasp it all, I feel like giving up for a while.

Michael we have all felt that way with Logos or Libronix or whatever version we started with. The first stage in learning anything new is frustration and the feeling 'I'll never get this right.' Don't quit or you won't get to the stage where hope dawns and the process becomes more natural and fruitful.

I need to get back to bound books, pen and paper.

I don't think those are ever good to leave behind. Technology has it's part, but we can't let it distract us from our real purpose.