Sin
I am trying to find information on what are the consequences of sin on a christian life now and when they go to heaven. I have the scholars logos package. Would like some suggestions of books or a search I can perform to find this info. Thanks
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Rom 6:23 James 1:13-15
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Tracy,
Right away you're hitting two topics that you might research. I do not remember which Systematic Theologies are part of the Scholar's pack. but I would suggest searching them if possible on topics of
Hamartiology (the theological word for the study of sin)
Soteriology (Salvation theology)
a combined search of both terms may yield interesting results for a starter. From there, I'm sure you'd be able to branch off into some great text specific studies.
Sarcasm is my love language. Obviously I love you. 0 -
was just looking at the doctrine of sin in logos so look up "hamartiology".
As far as the effect, there are none after we're in heaven and there are three views of it during life:
Pelagius
Arminian (may want to look up Wesleyan as a subheading)
Reformed (this includes Anglican, Lutheran, Dutch Reformed, Covenantal and Presbyterian)
nancy
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Nancy A. Almodovar said:
As far as the effect, there are none after we're in heaven
The OP may be read as you do ("after we're in heaven"), but it may also be read as 'when we've died and are on our way to Heaven'. In which case there are a few different opinions. One -- fairly common, and inherited from Judaism -- is called Purgatory. [:)] A concept that might be worth looking up if the study is meant to be thorough.
Nancy A. Almodovar said:and there are three views of it during life:
Pelagius
Arminian (may want to look up Wesleyan as a subheading)
Reformed (this includes Anglican, Lutheran, Dutch Reformed, Covenantal and Presbyterian)
I think you missed a few here. The majority of the world's Christians are still Catholics, and they don't hold either of these views. Nor do the Orthodox.
Mac Pro (late 2013) OS 12.6.2
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Does anyone have a Band-Aid?...I have bitten multiple holes in my lip.[:P]
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Tracy Clark said:
I am trying to find information on what are the consequences of sin on a christian life now and when they go to heaven. I have the scholars logos package. Would like some suggestions of books or a search I can perform to find this info. Thanks
Let's keep things simple to start with, and not get too carried away with exploring the systematic theology of the various strands of Christian belief. For a topic like this, I imagine the original poster will want an understanding of the doctrine within his own theological viewpoint, whatever that may be.
So I would start with a ranked, basic phrase search for "consequences of sin". In my library that returns almost too many useful hits. I'd sift through the first few pages of results this, and make notes of the major issues (add them to a clippings file). I'd also make a note of the major passages of Scripture that deal with the topic, that these search results mention (e.g. David and Bathsheba, the Fall, etc.). I'd do this in a passage list or a note file. When I've finished, I'd study these major passages of Scripture, using a Passage Guide.
Here's an extract from my top search result. I found it very relevant, and very helpful:
The Lingering Consequences of Sin
One issue remains: the consequences of sin seem to linger on, even after sin has been forgiven and the sinner justified. An example is David. He was told that his sin in committing adultery with Bathsheba and murdering Uriah had been put away so that he would not die; nevertheless, the child born to Bathsheba would die because of David’s sin (2 Sam. 12:13–14). Is such forgiveness real and complete? Is it not as if God in such instances holds back a bit on his forgiveness so that a bit of punishment remains? And if this is the case, is there real grace?We need to make a distinction here between the temporal and eternal consequences of sin. When one is justified, all of the eternal consequences of sin are canceled, including eternal death. But the temporal consequences of sin, both those that fall on the individual and those that fall on the human race collectively, are not necessarily removed. Thus we still experience physical death and the other elements of the curse of Genesis 3. A number of these consequences follow from our sins in a cause-and-effect relationship that may be either physical or social in nature. God ordinarily does not intervene miraculously to prevent the carrying through of these laws. So if, for example, a person in a fit of rage, perhaps a drunken state, kills his family but later repents and is forgiven, God does not bring the family members back to life. The sin has led to a lifetime loss.
While we do not know the exact nature of the cause of the death of David and Bathsheba’s son, it is not difficult to see a connection between David’s sin and the rape, murder, and rebellion that occurred among his other children. All too aware of his own shortcomings, David may have been overly indulgent with his sons, or they may have viewed his enjoining them to good behavior as hypocritical. We see the results in the tragedies that later transpired. There is a warning here—although God’s forgiveness is boundless and accessible, we ought not to presume upon it. Sin is not something to be treated lightly.
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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Tracy Clark said:
Would like some suggestions of books or a search I can perform to find this info.
I agree in principle with Thomas' advice but would probably start with an English Dictionary to see how that defined sin and then move to a Bible Dictionary to see what that had to say before moving to Systematic Theology.
I also suggest that early in your study process you locate all of the verses in your favourite Bible that contain the word sin and create a verse list from this. I find this helps me focus on what the Bible does and does not say.
As for searches I would probably use the NEAR function on my library to see what it discovers i.e.
sin NEAR defined
sin NEAR consequence*
sin NEAR result*
sin NEAR penalty
I would also use the Cited tool to see where key Bible refrences to sin are used, I find this tool useful and have defined a number of Collections to help me navigate this better.
God Bless
Graham
Pastor - NTCOG Basingstoke
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I would begin with a word search in the Greek, and Hebrew, and then Septuagint as to how the original language words translated into English as "sin" are used and their various contexts in those numerous passages.
Of course you need to define sin as well, and any other words important to the study.
After digesting that, you certainly will have a better understanding of sins relation to man.
Theology, denominations, mystical butterflies in our stomach do not determine Truth...the Bible does. If there is an argument over what the Bible is, then that is another program on how we got our Bible, which is going to be argued heavily with variation.
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Mark Barnes said:
Here's an extract from my top search result. I found it very relevant, and very helpful:
That's an Evangelical?? Could have been taken word for word from a Catholic text on Purgatory. [:)]
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MEDIC !!!! [:P]
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It's too bad that Logos has yet to produce the three-volumn companion to Millard Erickson's Christian Theology. These Readings in Christian Theology touch on all aspects of theology/doctrine from most faith communities.
These would be a very good addition to anyone's library.
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fgh said:
That's an Evangelical?? Could have been taken word for word from a Catholic text on Purgatory
I got curious enough on this discussion to open to Mark's discussion of Millard's "The Lingering Consequences of Sin." Perhaps Catholic theology does lend itself to this issue. However, one always pays the consequences in the here and now. That's a simple fact of life. So, no argument from me.
{charley}
running Logos Bible Software 6.0a: Collector's Edition on HP e9220y (AMD Phenom II X4 2.60GHz 8.00GB 64-bit Win 7 Pro SP1) & iPad (mini) apps.
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tracy, for what purpose is this (only that it may help to figure out how deep to get into it)?
I like Apples. Especially Honeycrisp.
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I'm gonna need a lip transplant.[:P]
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Nice Try !!! It won't work...I'm sittin' this one out [:#]
James 3:1-5
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Hang in there Abi Gail - you're not alone. "Let endurance have it's perfect work...."
Longtime Logos user (more than $30,000 in purchases) - now a second class user because I won't pay them more every month or year.
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Longtime Logos user (more than $30,000 in purchases) - now a second class user because I won't pay them more every month or year.
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First of all I want to thank all of you for your replies. The question arose in a Bible study I was attending where someone was distrubed by the fact after you were saved some people might use this for an excuse to sin. I pointed out that their could be earthly consquences such as Davids. But this person believed that not all people suffered such consquences. And thought it was unfair that they should go to heaven and enjoy the same treatment as those who always tried to live a holy life. For some reason I have it in my mine there was some biblical passages that talk about differences on how we are received in heaven or how we thought of ourselves differently when we got to heaven. Examples first shall be last and last shall be first. Sorry I'm not good at putting my thoughts in writing again thanks for all the help.
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Tracy Clark said:
First of all I want to thank all of you for your replies. The question arose in a Bible study I was attending where someone was distrubed by the fact after you were saved some people might use this for an excuse to sin. I pointed out that their could be earthly consquences such as Davids. But this person believed that not all people suffered such consquences. And thought it was unfair that they should go to heaven and enjoy the same treatment as those who always tried to live a holy life. For some reason I have it in my mine there was some biblical passages that talk about differences on how we are received in heaven or how we thought of ourselves differently when we got to heaven. Examples first shall be last and last shall be first. Sorry I'm not good at putting my thoughts in writing again thanks for all the help.
Romans - Are we to sin that grace may abound? God forbid!
Also ??Corinthians: some will have built with precious metal and it will last, others with wood, straw etc, and it will get burned away, tho we shall ourselves be saved.
Would any of this be relevant? Can't give you chapter and verse out of my head, and am too idle to get them from logos - sin.........[;)]
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Tracy Clark said:
And thought it was unfair that they should go to heaven and enjoy the same treatment as those who always tried to live a holy life.
The Laborers in the Vineyard (Matthew 20:1-16).
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Tracy,
The consequences of sin now would be losing his salvation and be compared to a dog that eats its own vomit or a swine smirring itself in the mud again after being washed (2 Pet. 2:20-21), hence he wouldn't make it to heaven...so there's no finding out what the consequences would be when he goes to heaven because he will never make it there. He will be vomited out of Jesus' mouth (Rev. 3:15-16) and his name will be blotted out of the book of life for not being faithful (Rev. 3:5). A christian cannot live in sin and expect God's grace to abound for him (Rom. 6:1-4). So that's that...[:)]
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Tracy Clark said:
For some reason I have it in my mine there was some biblical passages that talk about differences on how we are received in heaven
Try 1 Cor 3:13-15 "the work of each builder will become visible, for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each has done. If what has been built on the foundation survives, the builder will receive a reward. If the work is burned up, the builder will suffer loss; the builder will be saved, but only as through fire."
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fgh said:Tracy Clark said:
For some reason I have it in my mine there was some biblical passages that talk about differences on how we are received in heaven
Try 1 Cor 3:13-15 "the work of each builder will become visible, for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each has done. If what has been built on the foundation survives, the builder will receive a reward. If the work is burned up, the builder will suffer loss; the builder will be saved, but only as through fire."
@ fgh and nicky--FYI (not to start a debate), but wanted to pass on a different way to look at that--it seems like it is referring to someone (like a church leader) building on a foundation, not so much about a personal building on one's own life. I always looked at it as you both seem to right now, until the last year or two when I took a closer look at it. (again, no controversy here, just input for reflection)
TREY: there is that tension again between the sin we do and God's grace. Sin should have no part in us. But ALL of us need God's grace on so many levels: forgiveness, power to overcome, sanctification, etc. A couple other scriptures:
- the laborers in the fields hired at different shifts during the day: all got the same wages. The ones hired early objected, but the master said "what's it to you? didn't you get what we agreed upon? etc"
- Jesus foretells of Peter's sin (denial) and looks beyond it saying: "when you have repented, strengthen your brothers." Doesn't minimize his sin, but acknowledges that it will happen, calls to repentance, and STILL chooses to use Peter for his glory. Pretty amazing grace. Can't we also extend that to others?
You might look at some Bible Dictionary entries on sin to get a handle on it. I also like what others have suggested about, using searches on topics related/near each other.
My guess is something deeper is going on with them. Are they in denial about their own issues? Are they laboring under guilt? Are they lacking mercy--and wisdom?
Sin should never be minimized. But neither grace.
I like Apples. Especially Honeycrisp.
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You might also want to search your resources for "rewards." One veiw would be that there is a loss of rewards in heaven for those who have not lived for the Lord after salvation.
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Tom,
laborers in the vineyard does not apply because it's not talking about going to heaven. It's talking about the "kingdom of heaven" (The Church) and how everyone would be accepted.
You see, the Jews had to bear all the heat of the day (i.e. the law and all its requirements), but they would have the privilege to make it into the kingdom (the church). The gentiles, who did not have to keep the law of Moses, were offered the opportunity to enter the kingdom and they did (at a later time), and obviously this did not set well with the Jews - that's why many complained when they were getting "paid."
Now, some seem to think this parable is talking about going to heaven, but it's not, because there will be no envy in heaven [Matt. 20:10-14] (which is what the Jews/ones complaining reflected), there won't be anger, there won't be "If you don't like it, take your piece of heaven and get out of here..." (cf. Mat. 20:14) - which would be what the Lord will say in "that day" if we interpret it to be heaven (but it shouldn't be interpreted that way). Anyway, some need to be cautious in throwing verses with the wrong application. Reminds of a phrase I heard "Right doctrines from the wrong texts" which to me it means you pull a verse out of context to try to teach your own ideas. That's all my friends!
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Dear Silent Sam! *smile*Silent Sam said:HHHMMMmmm~~~I could appreciate your post even more if I knew which post you were
HHHMMMmmm~~~ing to!Peace to you!
Philippians 4: 4 Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, Rejoice. 5 Let your reasonableness be known to everyone. The Lord is at hand..........
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Giovanni Baggio said:
Anyway, some need to be cautious in throwing verses with the wrong application.
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Thank you, muchly! Dear Silent Sam!
You communicate very well indeed! *smile*
Peace and Joy in the Lord!
Philippians 4: 4 Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, Rejoice. 5 Let your reasonableness be known to everyone. The Lord is at hand..........
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Giovanni, once again we disagree.
Matthew uses the circumlocution “kingdom of heaven” sometimes found in the OT, presumably out of deference to his primarily Hebrew audience who would have balked at the possible idolatry in the use of the divine name. Scholars agree that Jesus used this image to refer to God’s heavenly and eternal rule. - David Noel Freedman, Allen C. Myers and Astrid B. Beck, Eerdmans Dictionary of the Bible (Grand Rapids, Mich.: W.B. Eerdmans, 2000). 768.
The “Kingdom of God/Heaven” is a subject of major importance in the Bible for two primary reasons: its frequency in the first three canonical (synoptic) gospels of the NT, and the conviction that it stands at the very center of the message of the historical Jesus. . .associated with the future state of the resurrected, immortal blessed. - David Noel Freedman, The Anchor Yale Bible Dictionary (New York: Doubleday, 1996, c1992). 4:49.
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nicky crane said:
Also ??Corinthians: some will have built with precious metal and it will last, others with wood, straw etc, and it will get burned away, tho we shall ourselves be saved.
Would any of this be relevant?
I Corinthians 3:11-15
Yes, Nicky It is quite relevant to me. Especially when read with 1 John 5:13
(and I like the way you so passively ask the question. My mother teaches me in similar fashion [W] )Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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Matthew C Jones said:
I Corinthians 3:11-15
I happened to preach on this passage last Sunday. I too believe it's relevant, and that the passage is talking about the eternal consequences of sin for Christians.
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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Tom,
I hope we're not debating here (because I'm not), but are the liberal "scholars" of the AYBD or the somewhat conservative "scholars" who wrote the Eerdmans Dictionary the final authority? I could quote "scholars" like R.C.H. Lenski, Guy N. Woods, McGarvey, and others who are more modern than the afore mentioned who support my view, but should I accept their view or interpretation just because they said it? I'm sure you will agree with me in that "No" is the answer. We must search the Scriptures to see if what we are being taught is true or not, and so far what the "scholars" you quoted are saying doesn't really prove your point (even if you think putting them in bold letters will make it authoritative)...hehehe...Don't get me wrong, I read Eerdmans Dictionary and is useful, I don't own AYBD because I chose IVP who are conservative and don't speculate as much, but in the final analysis, those "scholars" and anyone who claims to be a "scholar" need to be put to the test in the Light of God's Word. I appreciate your quotes, but they certainly don't prove very much...the only thing they prove is that you have a resource that I might get in the future -- the AYBD -- perhaps just for the sake of adding another resource to my digital library. Anyway, as someone wisely said -- This is not a salvation issue and we probably need to "agree to disagree." Enjoy your AYBD...LOL [;)][6]...another LOL
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Why don't you tell us what's in your mind...seems like you're holding it inside...[:P]
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Milford, are you an instigator or what? Go back and read the forum guidelines for a change....LOL...J/K...[;)]
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Giovanni Baggio said:
Milford, are you an instigator or what? Go back and read the forum guidelines for a change....LOL...J/K...
Peace and every blessing to you, Giovanni! *smile*
Sorry, I'm not an institgator. However, although Silent Sam's postings have annoyed me on occasion, my present consideration is that Silent Sam really does communicate very well indeed. At the very least, one must say that he/not she, I think has patience and perserverance -- among other positive things -- like listening very, very deeply before he says anything.........
///////////// ............. and maybe he never will! *smile* except that our Gracious God and Father - and our Lord Jesus - and our Encourager and Comforter and Enlightener, the Holy Spirit has great love for Silent Sam .......
Other than that, Giovanni, I know nothing of Silent Sam!
Philippians 4: 4 Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, Rejoice. 5 Let your reasonableness be known to everyone. The Lord is at hand..........
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Milford Charles Murray said:
Silent Sam's postings have annoyed me on occasion
I believe I apologized before... But I will say it again...I apologize for anything I have done that has offended you.
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Milford, maybe silent sam is Abi Gail since she has experience a lot of "Lip biting" lately, that's why she's.......silent...LOL [:P]
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Mark Barnes said:
I happened to preach on this passage last Sunday. I too believe it's relevant, and that the passage is talking about the eternal consequences of sin for Christians.
Thank you for the sermon Mark.
I found myself in your story as the Cowboy hearing the small voice that says I can still be used of God.
I have a good friend who has been investing time weekly with me, helping me begin a new area of service to God. Your sermon is very encouraging.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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1 Cor 10:13 [:#]
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I did not see Tracy, where anybody suggested this path. 2 Cor. 5:10, "For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive what is due for what he has done in the body, whether good or evil."
The point being the idea of still being judged by Christ, based upon what we did while on earth.
That may take you in another interesting direction.
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Giovanni Baggio said:
Milford, maybe silent sam is Abi Gail since she has experience a lot of "Lip biting" lately, that's why she's.......silent...LOL
FYI, Abi Gail is really a man, and so is Rene Atchley, if he should ever post again . . . [:)]
Personally, I find having to dictate my responses to my wife who then types them saves me a LOT of grief. . . .
. . . I don't really do that, but I KNOW it would be a fool-proof system.
I like Apples. Especially Honeycrisp.
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Silent Sam said:Milford Charles Murray said:
Silent Sam's postings have annoyed me on occasion
I believe I apologized before... But I will say it again...I apologize for anything I have done that has offended you.
Not at all necessary! *smile* Much appreciated, though, and received with gratitude.
Perhaps I have "too thin a skin" sometimes ????? If not that, I certainly have other faults that I need to (and do!) take to our Lord for his help, guidance, and usually forgivenss --- which He so gracious gives also! Through our Lord Jesus Christ!
Peace to you!
You may or may not be interested, but finding and pondering on this next quote in a blog by some Mitch Joel whom I do not know is of interest to me. Of course -- for sure! -- for sure! We Christians have a higher more divine paradigm for our lives and our interactions with the people of the world and the people of The Church! *smile* Ultimately it is the Lord's Paradigm that concerns and consumes me! *smile*
Quote from Mitch Joel (found on internet)
"Maybe we need to think about having thin skin instead of thick skin?
I'm guilty of this too. In my first business book, Six Pixels of Separation, I tell readers (nay, I warn them!) that if they do engage in any of these many new media channels and platforms that they must have thick skin, but the truth is that I don't have thick skin at all. I have very, very thin skin. I want people to think my ideas are great and if they do not, it bothers me. I harp on their every word and I play evil games in my mind about snarky ways to defend my own honor (and then I do nothing by taking a personal and moral higher ground stance). When people are overly nice to me and complimentary, my skin is thin too. I don't know how to accept it graciously. I think thoughts like, "oh, they're just saying that to be nice," or "if they only really knew me, they wouldn't think in this kind of way." I'm great at self-deprecation because - without question - it is one of my primary self-defense mechanisms. When I discuss my stance on Blogging and blog comments (more on that here: The Power Of Engagement And Blog Comments), what I'm not telling you is that by trying to defend or reiterate my stance, I actually begin to think that maybe my initial thought was wrong, or that someone else is always smarter than me. Because I have thin skin, all of that sucks a lot of life, energy and passion out of Blogging, writing, thinking and creating new marketing paradigms.
Even Blogging this stuff doesn't feel comfortable because I don't have thick skin (you may be laughing at me right now).
I don't like hurting other people's feelings. I don't like making other people feel that they are not an equal. I don't believe anyone should be unethical or up to shenanigans. Ultimately, I don't believe that in order to speak our minds, we have to make others feels like they are less than us or wrong. I don't have a thick skin. When people say, "it's nothing personal, it's just business," I think to myself, "it's very personal. I spent most of my waking hours at business. If that's not personal, what's the point?"
Philippians 4: 4 Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, Rejoice. 5 Let your reasonableness be known to everyone. The Lord is at hand..........
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Tracy Clark said:
someone was distrubed by the fact after you were saved some people might use this for an excuse to sin.
Paul was also disturbed to find many Christians had this attitude. Romans 6:1-14
Tracy Clark said:I pointed out that their could be earthly consquences such as Davids. But this person believed that not all people suffered such consquences
You are correct. The Bible is replete with examples of how devastating sin is and the unseen consequences it can have. Just because we don't see it does not mean it isn't there.
Your original question begs another question that you will not get a consensus on in these forums:
"When is a person saved?"
A study of Soteriology within Christianity will show you the many differing opinions.
If you believe the Bible teaches any of these:
election ("pre-destination"), eternal security ("once-saved, always saved"), Universalism ("everybody goes to Heaven"), or the all-sufficiency of the blood of Christ (salvation by Grace, "faith-only"),
then you can quit worrying about a Christian's sin reversing God's plan of salvation. This does not answer your first question about the consequences but it does contain (restrain) the possible answers.
If you believe the Bible teaches your salvation is not complete until Jesus utters "Well done thy good and faithfull servant" then you best stay busy doing lots of good works.
I believe the Bible teaches we receive rewards in Heaven for things done on earth. That would also mean we would bypass rewards for works we chose not to do. (Could Rev 21:4 be us weeping when we see how we have wronged our Lord?) But this also does not answer your original question.
We definitely see some of the consequenses of sin in the Christian's life as we walk in this world in others' and our own personal lives. I dare say we don't know the depths of the influence or we would flee every temptation. We should be careful not to judge other's misfortune as a result of their sin. John 9:2-3
Except for the nail-prints & spear wound in the Saviour's ressurected body, we have no scripture references for any everlasting consequenses of our sin in Heaven.Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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Giovanni Baggio said:
should I accept their view or interpretation just because they said it? I'm sure you will agree with me in that "No" is the answer. We must search the Scriptures to see if what we are being taught is true or not
Hello Giovanni,
We do agree here. Scripture is norma normans (norming norm). Because of this, I first went to scripture to take a very quick look at the theology in the Gospel of Matthew concerning its eschatology and its ecclesiology .
To share with you my process, I first did a search on "βασιλεία τῶν οὐρανῶν." I found out that this phrase occurs 24 times in 23 verses, and all 23 verses are in the Gospel of Matthew. After looking at these verses, I say that all of them deal with prolepsis eschatology. Because this confirmed my initial thought, I went and verified it with my other resources. After looking at my first two resources (AYBD and Eerdman's Dictionary of the Bible) and both of them confirmed that "Kingdom of Heaven" is about prolepsis eschatology,or as the AYBD states, " future state of the resurrected, immortal blessed."
I then looked at the ecclesiology in Matthew.
- The Church
is instituted by Jesus and founded by
his authority.- Matthew records Jesus
as saying, "I will build my church" (16:18). Matthew
is the only Gospel in which Jesus
speaks of the church, much less describes it as "his" or says that he
will "build" it. - Jesus bases his "Great Commission" to the
disciples (28:18-20) on the fact that he has been given "all authority in
heaven and earth" (28:18).In the
"Community Discourse," Jesus
promises his disciples that the church will have divine authority to "bind
and loose" (18:18). - --in contrast, the religious leaders are characters who lack
authority (7:28-29).
- Matthew records Jesus
- The definitive characteristic of the Church is the presence
of Jesus (and, therefore, the presence
of God, 1:23)- In the
"Community Discourse," Jesus
promises that he will be present wherever two or three gather in his name
(18:19). - In the last
verse of the Gospel, Jesus promises
his disciples, "I am with you always, to the end of the age." - Special
attention is given throughout the Gospel to characters who are said to be
"with Jesus" (his mother, 2:11; outcasts, 9:11; a follower, 26:51;
disciples, 16:21; 20:17-19, 26:37-38, 40, 69, 71). - --in contrast, Jesus
is never said to be "with" the religious leaders, but the latter are
described as being "against" Jesus
(12:14; 26:59; 27:1). This is
significant, since Jesus says in
12:30, "he who is not with me is against me."
- In the
- The Church is portrayed as "the family of God," in
relationship to Jesus.- Jesus, who
is the Son of God, designates his disciples as his true family and says that
whoever does the will of God is his "brother and sister and mother"
(12:46-50). - The
disciples of Jesus are frequently
called "sons of God" (5:9, 45; 8:12; 13:38; 17:25-26; 23:9). - --in contrast, Jesus
describes the religious leaders and their proselytes as "children of
hell" (23:15).
- Jesus, who
Because you said,
Giovanni Baggio said:. . .it means you pull a verse out of context to try to teach your own ideas.
I responded to your post.
I only responded with just snippets from Logos' resources because they are considered more, to use your word, authoritative throughout Christianity than just what I write.
FYI...The main reason why I am responding to your post is from your use of passive aggressive language.
Giovanni Baggio said:if you think ...hehehe
Giovanni Baggio said:Enjoy your AYBD...LOL
...another LOL And yes, humor is a form of passive aggressive.
We are told to
Phil Gons said:Please treat each other with the love, courtesy, respect, and kindness that you would if you were sitting in your living room together.
Therefore, I am asking you to please refrain from using passive aggressive language in these forums.
FYI(2)...Yes, I would have brought this topic up if someone is in my living room.
0 - The Church
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Tracy C said:
First of all I want to thank all of you for your replies. The question arose in a Bible study I was attending where someone was distrubed by the fact after you were saved some people might use this for an excuse to sin. I pointed out that their could be earthly consquences such as Davids. But this person believed that not all people suffered such consquences. And thought it was unfair that they should go to heaven and enjoy the same treatment as those who always tried to live a holy life. For some reason I have it in my mine there was some biblical passages that talk about differences on how we are received in heaven or how we thought of ourselves differently when we got to heaven. Examples first shall be last and last shall be first. Sorry I'm not good at putting my thoughts in writing again thanks for all the help.
I believe that there are different rewards for Christians based on what they have done with what God has given them and that this is scriptural. But there is something that is also true, and that is this: true salvation depends on true faith in Christ. If someone feels that they can live however they want and sin freely because God is gracious then I would say that person is not truly saved at all. For someone to regard the grace of God with such a complete lack of respect and appreciation.... how could that person claim that they love Jesus, have any real relationship with Jesus or worship Him as Lord of their life? Salvation depends to some degree on sustained repentance from sin, not perfection but also not just saying "I believe in Christ" and thinking you're free from any obligation to Him... James said that he would show his faith by his works, not that the works bring the salvation, but the true salvation, the relationship with Christ and empowerment through the Holy Spirit, will produce the good works and show the evidence of the activity of the Holy Spirit in the true Christian's life. Now there is a really big difference between the person who struggles with sin and fails sometimes (or even fails a lot if there is a genuine struggle)... and the person who says "It doesn't matter whether or not I sin because I'm saved and I have nothing to worry about". If there is no struggle against sin then there is no salvation; there can be no sanctification and there is obviously no proof of that person's true love for and faith in Christ and there will be no reward for that person, only judgment.
Matthew 24:36-51
Matthew 25:1-46
Matthew 16:24-27
Matthew 3:1-12
Mark 10:28-31
James 2:14-26
John 15:1-17
1 Peter 2:11
Ephesians 6:10-18
Romans 6:1-23
Romans 8:1-39
Romans 12:1-21
Hebrews 12:1-17
My Library | Romans 8:1 - There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.
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Gentlemen my 2 cents
What was the purpose for Christ’s coming?
Matthew 1:21; 1 John 3:5-6, 8; Hebrew 9:26; (Matthew 7: 20-23) - Jesus Christ came into this world to completely save men from SIN.What is Sin?
1 John 3:4; Romans 7: 7;
Sin is the transgression of God’s LAW.What is the law?
James 2: 8-12; Romans 13: 8-10; (Romans 7:7) Exodus 20: 4-17; Deuteronomy 5: 7-21; Exodus 34: 28;
The law of God is summarized in the Ten CommandmentsCan carnal man keep the law of God? (A man that has not received the new birth)
Romans 7:14, Romans 8: 7(1-18);
No, it is impossible for carnal men to keep the law of God.Is it required that we keep the law of God?
Revelation 22:14; Matthew 7: 21-23;
Those who keep the commandments of God will have right to the tree of Life, to enter into heaven.Who will be able to hail Christ as Lord and savior?
1 John 3: 1-3, 5,7; Hebrew 12:14; Romans 7:12;
Those who have ceased from Sin, and have been made pure even as Christ is pure will be able to hail Him as their Lord upon His return. If you fail to be righteousness and pure, then we CANNOT see God when He returns.How then can a man keep the law of God?
John 3: 3-7; 1 John 3:9;
He must be born again.
What is this seed that enables men to keep the law?
1 Peter 1:18-25;
The seed is the word of God which is found in the Gospel.0
