Bible Dictionary and Commentary Set, best bang for your buck

I recently purchased the Scholar's Edition of Logos and though there has been a learning curve I have been greatly blessed because of it. I have only purchased one book so far because of my budget, however I have been looking for 1) a new Bible dictionary (based on browsing the forums the reccomendations are Yale or ISBE) 2) and/or a new commentary set (ie Pulpit, though if I upgrade down the road, I will be chunking $ out the window, Bible Expositor's Commentary, etc.)

Any guidance, suggestions, or advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Sean

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Mark Smith

Sean,

Both questions have been asked frequently here, so you are not alone in wanting to know.

Anchor-Yale is scholarly and extensive but not necessarily conservative. ISBE is also good and more conservative. Take your pick. I have both and appreciate having both of them.

For Commentaries I would never recommend the Pulpit Commentary to anyone. For the whole Bible a multi-volume commentary like the Tyndale Commentary would be an excellent choice. This would more than likely not be in a future base collection.

Jeremy

I second the Tyndale commentary set. Great deal for the price. I would check out this underrated Bible dictionary that is more up to date than the Anchor Bible Dictionary or the ISBE. http://www.logos.com/products/details/5467

Sean Collins

Mark,

Thank you for your response. I also appreciate the description of both dictionaries, based on that since I have to choose I know which one I would go with as my first choice. I was curious as to if you have had any experience with the Expositors Bible Commentary? Based on your response, I will not pursue the Pulpit commentary set. Again, if I ever upgrade it would be there. I will also check out Tyndale.

As I have been looking at different add-ons, it would be beneficial to add a customer rating section for those not sure of a particular resource. After all, we are using the resources day in and day out. I am sure I am not the only one who has brainstormed this idea.

Thanks,

Sean

Sean Collins

My apologies I don't mean to blow up the board, but based on your suggestions I checked out the Tyndale Commentary set (49 Vol). It is 3.0, how would this work? I only have Logos4, I am a young (29, if you call that young) minister and this is my first software program. I do not have the Libronix 3.0 software, so how would I sync up the serial or merge them? Which is what I have read you have to do in order to get older resources to work w/ Logos4

Thanks,

Sean

Jeremy

The Expositor's set is uneven. Some are really short, some are really long; some good (Genesis and Matthew) and some average. That set is presently being updated and some are even out right now (not with Logos though as far as I know). I would wait to get that one until the fully revised new set comes out.

Jeremy

My apologies I don't mean to blow up the board, but based on your suggestions I checked out the Tyndale Commentary set (49 Vol). It is 3.0, how would this work? I only have Logos4, I am a young (29, if you call that young) minister and this is my first software program. I do not have the Libronix 3.0 software, so how would I sync up the serial or merge them? Which is what I have read you have to do in order to get older resources to work w/ Logos4

Thanks,

Sean

Once you buy the 3.0 discs, you can sync your licenses in 3.0 and then update in 4 and they will sync. Or you can just call Logos customer service with the serial number and they will allow you to download them in 4.

Ronald Quick

For Commentaries I would never recommend the Pulpit Commentary to anyone.

Just curious as to why you would not recommend the Pulpit Commentary?

Thanks,

Ron

Mark Smith

Had it for years. Kept trying to get something from it, never did. The homilies were totally useless to me. The commentary on an occasional book was decent but not usually. Very dated. Oceans of words for a few worthwhile sentences.

I realize some people like it, but I am not one of them and would never recommend spending more than a dollar to get a copy. Save your money for something worthwhile.

T Gerold Castle

And I absolutely LOVE the Pulpit Commentaries. One of my favorites actually.

Paul N

My apologies I don't mean to blow up the board, but based on your suggestions I checked out the Tyndale Commentary set (49 Vol). It is 3.0, how would this work? I only have Logos4, I am a young (29, if you call that young) minister and this is my first software program. I do not have the Libronix 3.0 software, so how would I sync up the serial or merge them? Which is what I have read you have to do in order to get older resources to work w/ Logos4

Thanks,

Sean

Hey Sean, good questions. 3.0 means it was produced when Libronix 3.0 was Logos' latest and greatest. I just bought the Tyndale (and use L4 exclusively) and it works like a charm. What's great about this commentary is it is complete. Readers also like it quite a bit over at bestcommentaries.com. An analysis I did of bc rankings showed these top 5 commentary sets broken up into OT and NT

Old Testament
1.) New International Commentary on the Old Testament (NICOT)
2.) Word Biblical Commentary (WBC)
3.) Tyndale Old Testament Commentary (TOTC)
4.) New American Commentary (NAC)*
5.) Anchor Bible Commentary (AB)

New Testament
1.) New International Commentary on the New Testament (NICNT)
2.) New International Greek Testament Commentary (NIGTC)*
3.) Word Biblical Commentary (WBC)
4.) Pillar New Testament Commentary (PNTC)*
5.) Baker Exegetical Commentary on the New Testament (BECNT)*

This was based on the number of first place and second place rankings given by readers.
* = available in certain base packages

I've been working on these two lists as priority over other resources. I would say the NICOT/NT, International Critical Commentary (ICC), and the Anchor Bible Commentary (AB) are must haves regardless of the list.

Greg Corbin

The ISBE is one of the best resources I have. Use it all the time. Can't say enough good things about it. In my opinion, the Expositor's Bible Commentary set avaliable for $129 from Logos every day is by far the best bang for your buck in a whole Bible commentary set. I agree with the previous comments that it is "uneven" but all commentary sets are to some degree. Overall, the EBC is a fine and respected set on the entire Bible that will profit you for years. I agree that Tyndale is good. You should get it as well when you have the money.

Dan Francis

I haven't seen anyone recommend the Preacher's commentary, this inexpensive 35 volume commentary covers the whole bible wonderfully. No series is perfect but comparing it to Tyndale I would say Tyndale is a bit more technical and that's ok... but Preacher's has a bit of devotional quality and many homiletical hints. I own both but find my use of Tyndale is very minimal. Check them both out and make up your mind what will be best for you...

http://www.logos.com/products/details/2071

-Dan

nicky crane

Sean,

I have scholar's edition too, recently upgraded. I recommend Tyndale, which I use daily, or WBC, which I also use daily. WBC is still on sale offer at $499. It is more detailed and more technical and not always conservative. I like it because it is thorough and helps me understand what the text says, as well as what other scholars think. I tend not to be too concerned with textual criticism theories - the Book in the form in which we have it is the Book God has given us, however it reached us, and I presume God knew what he was doing.

Tyndale, you can download - I know, because the CD never reached me (post in Albania is not always reliable), and for which Logos trusted my word and gave me a refund for the non arriving CD[:D]. I also use that daily. I think that is uniformly conservative. Not as detailed as WBC, but I think it has more about application.

When you can afford it, I would recommend upgrading to Scholars Gold. That would give you the UBS Translators Handbook, which is my commentary of choice. I bought it at great expense, not realising it would have been cheaper to upgrade to Gold. It has still proved to be money well invested.

Josh

Best bang for the buck:

Commentary: Tyndale

http://www.logos.com/products/details/5310

Dictionary: IVP Bundle

http://www.logos.com/products/details/1516

Recommended:

Commentary: MacArthur's NT Bundle

http://www.logos.com/products/details/8132

Dictionary: ISBE

http://www.logos.com/ebooks/details/ISBE

On a side note, you should also check out the Lexham Discourse Greek New Testament Bundle:

http://www.logos.com/products/details/3888

Sam West

Had it for years. Kept trying to get something from it, never did. The homilies were totally useless to me. The commentary on an occasional book was decent but not usually. Very dated. Oceans of words for a few worthwhile sentences.

I realize some people like it, but I am not one of them and would never recommend spending more than a dollar to get a copy. Save your money for something worthwhile.

Mark i second all the above. I never use mine.

Friedrich

Sean, lots of input, eh? Here are some things to add to what has been said (and reflect on a bit of it, too):

always consider an upgrade to the next level or two. You can get good commentary sets and additional resources.
Pulpit: I open it once in a while, and close it. It obviously is valuable to some.
Preacher's: They have good illustrations at times. Doesn't really wrestle with the text. It's value to you is dependent on what you need to shore up in your preaching.
Tyndale: I am sooo glad I got it. Some NT volumes are too brief, but it has very nice scholarship on a lot of books and isn't too technical. Not much application. More for understanding phrases and words, some context, thinking through theology, etc. Tends to be more Amillenial
EBC: Some excellent volumes, but many mediocre ones. Some are too brief, others, like Carson's magnum opus "Matthew" are detailed and very technical. I liked Philippians and Hebrews, and some others. John and Luke were pretty worthless to me, as some OT ones I have used. More premillenial.
ISBE: My old favorite favorite Encyclopedia: complete, conservative, quality. But it is now 30 years old or so.
Anchor Yale: also older and mix of "liberal" and "conservative." but I have read some of the best articles EVER in there. Bought it on sale during last year's "12 days of Logos". So glad I have it.
ZEB (Zond. Enc. of the Bible): Just recently purchased it, and it looks very very good so far. I can't compare it over all to the others just yet, but I would say it could supplant ISBE: more current, great scholarship (if you are okay with conservative scholarship), NICE COLOR PICTURES! Light years ahead of the old Z. Pictorial Enc. Bible, which I hated.
IVP sets: very very good, but different than ISBE and the like, but I can't really explain how.

There ya go. Happy studying!

Sam West

Sean, lots of input, eh? Here are some things to add to what has been said (and reflect on a bit of it, too):

always consider an upgrade to the next level or two. You can get good commentary sets and additional resources.

Pulpit: I open it once in a while, and close it. It obviously is valuable to some.

Preacher's: They have good illustrations at times. Doesn't really wrestle with the text. It's value to you is dependent on what you need to shore up in your preaching.

Tyndale: I am sooo glad I got it. Some NT volumes are too brief, but it has very nice scholarship on a lot of books and isn't too technical. Not much application. More for understanding phrases and words, some context, thinking through theology, etc. Tends to be more Amillenial

EBC: Some excellent volumes, but many mediocre ones. Some are too brief, others, like Carson's magnum opus "Matthew" are detailed and very technical. I liked Philippians and Hebrews, and some others. John and Luke were pretty worthless to me, as some OT ones I have used. More premillenial.

ISBE: My old favorite favorite Encyclopedia: complete, conservative, quality. But it is now 30 years old or so.

Anchor Yale: also older and mix of "liberal" and "conservative." but I have read some of the best articles EVER in there. Bought it on sale during last year's "12 days of Logos". So glad I have it.

ZEB (Zond. Enc. of the Bible): Just recently purchased it, and it looks very very good so far. I can't compare it over all to the others just yet, but I would say it could supplant ISBE: more current, great scholarship (if you are okay with conservative scholarship), NICE COLOR PICTURES! Light years ahead of the old Z. Pictorial Enc. Bible, which I hated.

IVP sets: very very good, but different than ISBE and the like, but I can't really explain how.

There ya go. Happy studying!

Dan you sound like you are real knowledgeable about selecting commentaries and I know you are because I seen you on the forum a lot talking about and offering good advice about them. Having said all that l would like to ask you some questions if you don’t mind. Let me point out right here I am not a preacher or pastor occasionally teach a class just like to study Gods Word. Anyway my first question [1] what do you mean when you say conservative? [2] What is the different kind of commentaries? I love those that offer several schools of thought on a tough Scripture. What do we call those? [3] If I bite the bullet and go on up to platinum what’s your thoughts on those commentaries? I don’t see any of those talked about very much on the forum. I have used the web and tried to research some of them and the web don’t even recognize some of them. [4] Does logos run a good sale on the good ones like you like and if so when should I look for such a sale? [5] $850 to upgrade. Could I buy a couple sets of good quality commentaries for that money and be just as well off?

Thanks Dan

DAL

I don't know what your budget is, but you might want to try Logos Payment Plan and you can get Anchor YB Dictionary and Expositor's Bible Commentary. I like the EBC as a good starter set better than the pulpit IMO. I still use Pulpit and wouldn't dismiss it completely, but if you plan to upgrade later it will be included in your upgrade. On dictionaries, I'd rather recommend the IVP Reference Collection 3.0 -- you'll get a lot of dictionaries that contain more conservative material than the Anchor does. But in the end, it'll be up to you how you want to spend your money.

Friedrich

Dan you sound like you are real knowledgeable about selecting commentaries

Thank you for your kind words. I do use commentaries and try to remember or reflect on things about them. I am also a preacher and went through Bible college and seminary, where I used many, in addition to learning to do my own "original work" and not just rely on them. That said, in spite of your kind words, I am not an expert, but if I can help, I will. And i know more about them than technical issues--other people on the forums are much more able than I.

[1] what do you mean when you say conservative?

Slinging labels is not helpful, even though I obviously do it. I use it as a generality, there is not an exact litmus test. But a conservative will (generally speaking) believe in the bodily resurrection of Jesus, believe the Bible is really inspired by God and trustworthy and authoritative, believe in the supernatural activities and experiences (such has miracles, virgin birth) etc. I am not trying to pick a fight or say that "liberal" people don't believe some (all?) of those things, nor that all that a "conservative" says is completely accurate or devoid of incorrect bias. I grew up as a missionary kid in Germany in the 70's. There, the contrast was a lot more stark between "liberal" and "conservative."

in the realm of commentaries, as an example, it would not be uncommon to see in OT "liberal" commentaries frequent reference to "J" "E" "P" "D" as references to different types of editors and editing schools who put together the texts, or doubt that "King David" was a real person. Conservatives might be more inclined to say that it is quite possible that Moses could have composed most of the Pentateuch, that David was historical, etc. That is a broad brush stroke, and you will find all kinds of lines crossed both ways (for instance, it IS clear that on some level "editing" went on in the OT, but the question is "how much." But hopefully that gives you some feel about how I use conservative without locking me in to an exact litmus test.

What I am not doing is determining someone's salvation by that label. Others might. BUT NOT ON THIS FORUM!!! [;)]

[2] What is the different kind of commentaries?

There are a lot of ways you can categorize things, here are some ways people do here on the forums and my own understanding of what that might mean:

Academic/Advanced: uses a lot of Greek, Hebrew, grammar, etc. References a lot of other commentators to interact, support your conclusions or to discredit their ideas. Lots of references and footnotes. Tedious reading
Intermediate: tries to deal with the thrust of the text's meaning and interact with thorny theological or grammar and syntax or word meaning. But doesn't get totally bogged down in typing examples in Greek only (for example) and is more readable. Don't have to be a trained Bible scholar to read, but you have better be a regular Sunday School attendee and been to a workshop or two. [:D]
Expository: doesn't spend as much time explaining how they got their conclusions, but do a really nice job in stating them and giving (this is important!) lots of cool illustrations guys and gals can pilfer for a preaching or teaching gig.
Beginner: doesn't tell you a whole lot, but doesn't confuse you either, and only costs $5.

(obviously some of the above is a bit tongue in cheek)

But there are many other ways to look at a commentary: do they spend more time looking at theological issues (like the nature of sin, holiness, etc) or do they look at the rhetorical flow and structure (like Witherington's "Socio-Rhetorical Commentaries", do they pay attention to overall context (like RT France's NICNT commentary on Matthew) or focus more on the trees (like Ellington's Hebrews commentary).

I love those that offer several schools of thought on a tough Scripture.

me too. I also find that having more commentaries increases the likelihood that:

I will find input on the specific question/problem I have
I can play different views off each other (but always be careful)
I can see more of the original context of what one commentator actually said if he/she is quoted by others.
I get different ways of looking at the text (devotional thoughts, theological importance, big picture thinking, etc)

What do we call those?

no clue. (are you referring to ones like the "4 views on Revelation"?

[3] If I bite the bullet and go on up to platinum what’s your thoughts on those commentaries?

There are many good ones, but it all depends on what is helpful to you. If you can, look them up on Amazon (but don't buy! lol) or Google read them a bit to see if they are helpful to you. also go to bestcommentaries dot com for user reviews. hopefully Logos will introduce this capability on their website. Here are some of my thoughts on those specifically new to Platinum commentaries:

Baker Exegetical: very well thought of, but set is very incomplete. A bit more on the technical side. Luke is considered one of the most complete recent commentaries on that book.
Baker New Testament. Written by Howard Hendricks and Simon Kistemaker. Not as much variety of thought, and pretty verbose, but easier to digest and pretty helpful in many ways. I think they are Reformed in theology. Could be wrong
Believer's Church. Never use it. Don't know if good or bad.
Charles Simeon's Horae . . .I have not used it much--when I go to it, it seems he has not referred to my text, lol. Old school Reformed thinker (turn of 19th/20th century?). Many guys on Logos profess their love and reliance on his thought.
Classic Commentaries: 19th century dudes, often more technical. Very respected in their day, and still. Rarely use them, but did recently on a Hebrews study, when Westcott was referred to by someone else.
Ironside: no clue.
Pillar: very good. Probably in the "intermediate" category. Leaning more Reformed, Calvinist. (Peter O'brien, DA Carson, etc).

[4] Does logos run a good sale on the good ones like you like and if so when should I look for such a sale?

I don't know when they run sales on sets. But I have seen them pop up (like WBC, which is a good set, but more technical, even though at the end of each section they have an 'explanation" section that summarizes all the previous talk into something more manageable) at just about any time. ALWAYS call sales or email them (I use Jared, but everybody swears by "their" guy, so you will be well treated regardless). But around Christmas and March Madness (college basketball tournament time) you will see specials, but usually just one volume (I picked up a $120 volume on the Pastoral Epistles for $30), but you don't know who/if/what price it will be, necessarily. Those are more for individual volumes, dictionaries, small collections of a particular author, etc.

[5] $850 to upgrade. Could I buy a couple sets of good quality commentaries for that money and be just as well off?

Sam, I assume you mean it will cost you that much to go Platinum, not necessarily that you have that money around. It will have to be up to you. You will be getting much more than commentaries in Logos base packages, so you need to look at that. I basically went line by line when I upgraded, made notes of what I KNEW I wanted and how much it would cost to by on its own. Totaled all that up and compared that to the cost of the upgrade. I have chosen upgrade every time, although Portfolio was a real head scratcher--but I caved.

You could get a few really good sets that you might use more often with that money: Tyndale, EBC, NIVAC, and more. Diversify. Consider Ancient Christian Commentary (or the "Catena Aurea" on pre-pub) for something completely different.

Are you near a theological library, or can you loan some from a local library? Take some home, review them.

You'll never have enough time to read all of them. But will they be useful to your study, growth, and searches?

Nord Zootman

Dan,

Great answer, but one small correction -

"Baker New Testament. Written by Howard Hendricks and Simon Kistemaker.
Not as much variety of thought, and pretty verbose, but easier to
digest and pretty helpful in many ways. I think they are Reformed in
theology. Could be wrong"

That should be William Hendriksen, not Howard Hendricks. You are right that Hendriksen is reformed (Hendricks is dispensational).