Logos betrays legacy L10 owners at the end of November

Logos has announced that November 30 your "special discount" will end. Here is the thread where this was announced.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/252683/official-logos-10-owners-secure-your-best-price-on-the-best-of-logos

Back when Logos was formulating their new plans, many L10 owners objected to the plan to in effect "collect monthly rent payments from users that had already bought and paid for the house". Logos used the move to AI features and the associated development cost as their reason for changing the business model. Many users (including myself) wanted the subscription and monthly payments to be for those that desired such features. But Logos used the opportunity to implement subscription fees for everything.

New customers who never purchased anything from Logos were required to pay a monthly fee which gave them access to the same L10 program and features that previous customers had to pay for. In addition they also got access to a library full of selected resources. Resources which most "legacy" users had already bought and paid for, either in whole or in part.

This meant that "legacy" users were going to be forced to begin paying monthly rent payments on a house they had already bought and paid for. Meanwhile, the new users who moved in next door were paying the exact same amount of rent.

It clearly was not ethical or LEGAL for Logos to charge their existing "legacy" customers the same rate as new customers. The "legacy" users had already bought and paid for most or all of the program features and resources that were included in the new subscription packages, yet suprisingly they were being asked to pay again to use them.

In order to quiet things down, Logos tossed their "legacy" users a bone and gave them a discount on the new subscription, and they made a promise that their rent payments wound get them a "Legacy fallback license" so they could "own" even more program functionality. But Logos clearly never considered this "L10 discount" to be a price adjustment to address the fact they they were double-billing, and charging rent for features that legacy users already owned.

After that, things quieted down for the most part. The Legacy users who had no desire to use AI features were still forced to pay for a subscription if they wanted to stay current with the software they had previously purchased. But they were mostly ignored here on the forum.

But now Logos wants their bone back.

Beginning November 30, all Logos customers who desire to stay current with the software really do not "own" anything. If they did, they would not pay the same rate as a new customer who never purchased anything from Logos. This includes the (yet unknown) new features included in "Legacy fallback license".

As I have already said, this is unethical and ILLEGAL. I am pointing out to Logos (again) that it is ILLEGAL to charge rent on something that the customer has already bought and paid for.

Find more posts tagged with

Comments

Doc B

@Jason Stone (Logos) you have the patience of Job. I'm impressed. Perhaps the next Logos t-shirt might be printed with prison stripes? 😅

@John it wasn't an insight, it was a question. Where'd you go to law school? I think you got ripped off.

But just in case you didn't, I'm genuinely interested in what the exact illegality is. Casuistic or apodictic…give me a citation. Maybe, since there's more than one of them over there, you could get a RICO upgrade on the crime, whatever it is? That's treble compensation if you can prove a harm.

Or, maybe you just tone down the slander and instead say they did something you don't like. They've done stuff I don't like. It happens…it's a business relationship and sometimes the expectations and products get cross-wise. If so, just say so.

But don't accuse them of breaking the law just because your annoyed by something they are doing. (…because I can find an apodictic citation in the Bible about slandering other believers…).

DMB

Well, they did say you'd never pay twice. And to avail yourself of new, possibly needed features, a segment of customers must pay twice. Real soon.

'We'll keep our commitment until Dec 1".

Imagine dynamic pricing ends Dec 1 … no one is forced to buy more packages … a customer choice to double-pay.

Dr. Nathan Parker

I want to wade cautiously to what I say here, but I will provide another example where you legally buy something then are forced to "rent" it back.

Property taxes.

I can buy a home, but then I have to pay my county back an annual fee to keep it. If I don't pay the annual fee, after a few years, they'll kick me out of my own home and put it up on the auction block, leaving me homeless.

And until the law changes here, that is legal for them to do this.

At the moment with Logos, I haven't lost all of the money I've invested in books in it, and even if I didn't subscribe, I'd still be able to access my books, the locked-in set of L10 features I owned, and still get some free bug reports and minor updates.

I wouldn't get all the new perks, AI stuff, etc.

Plus I'm also not a fan of subscriptions in general (but I still bit the bullet and subscribed to Logos Max).

However, at least I still walk away with something even if I never spent any additional money in Logos after all these years, something I can't say about my county and my home.

I do seriously wish that Logos would reconsider a few things:

Make LFL available to everyone who subscribes after two years (not just L10 and prior users), as well as offer the LFL every two years.
Logos should keep the L10 and below subscription discounts permanent and not allow them to expire. Some L10 and below users may not want to subscribe yet, but they may down the road as Logos adds more features that provides additional value. It only alienates future subscribers not to offer them the discount (I believe this was the crux of John's argument).
I'd still recommend Logos consider the Microsoft Office route and offer a non-AI, non-cloud perpetual option every two years. There are customers who will never subscribe, some who can't afford to remain on a subscription, or who have limited Internet access for the cloud/AI features. Providing an offline perpetual option still allows you to take money from these customers, boost sales, and boost your bottom line. Even if the value isn't as good (Microsoft makes Microsoft 365 more tempting that Microsoft Office perpetual), it's still an option. Like the girl in the Old El Paso commercial who was asked if the village should have soft tacos or corn tacos, she said "Why not have both?" and the village celebrated. Microsoft has managed to do well with this approach. I know Logos would as well.

DMB

Nathan … rent isn't asset-based taxation. Your example would be buying a home, and then paying (discounted) rent on your owned house. Soon to be not-discounted.

John

@Doc B

Do you also accuse Jesus of slandering the money changers? Maybe you could get him for assault and battery too.

Seriously, why the ad-hominem attacks? You didn’t think there were enough people attacking me already?

Famille Thevoz

I'd say just one thing : many people fail to appreciate that it costs to maintain and run the exact same features over the years. The platforms are in constant evolution, so just keeping running the same feature set is costly, and more so in recent years. So accordingly, there is a price to maintain what you purchased over the years. Ownership in software is (unfortunately) not a static thing.

How you value this depreciation and reflect it in the proposed discounts for past owners is then the key point you raise. To me, the L10 discount and Legacy Fallback License seemed a fair valuation.

John

@Famille Thevoz … L10 discount and Legacy Fallback License seemed a fair valuation.

Most users probably agreed with you. But now they are getting rid of the discount.

John

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1384332#Comment_1384332

Hi Jason,

Not sure at this point if I will be able to attend a live event with a rigid schedule.

But I do have some questions I would love to have answered.

Currently your subscription prices are $10, $15 or $20 per month. How long do you expect it to be before these prices are raised?
Is Logos willing to guarantee that they will not be raising these prices every year?
When the prices are raised, are current L10 discount customers going to still be paying the same amount, or will their prices go up also?
How does Logos justify charging me for the full subscription cost when I already own most of the included resources and program features?

Jason Stone (Logos)

Thank you for submitting those questions, @John. I'm now going to close this thread down as it's gotten rather heightened.

The event is text-based, so please revisit the comments when you are able to; I'll ensure your questions are shared with the team.

Quick Links

Recent Posts
Activity
Unanswered