Conventional Books: Anybody still buying?

Our friends on several different biblioblogs often comment on different book releases by publishing houses on different levels of academic and pastoral resources for Christians, the ministry, and biblical academia.

I am curious to know if anybody here still actively buys conventional paper books or do you just sit there, like me, and anxiously wait for Logos to pop another title, set, or resource out on pre-pub?

I said, "like me", but last Christmas I spent $300 on some monographs, some in paperback and some hardback.

What are your leanings? What are your concerns?

Quite frankly, it would have to be something special, like monographs, for me to embark out and buy print books. I even have four or five titles out of the WBC on my shelf because I thought I would like to have a few for "take it with me" availability. Well, that was five years ago and we have full mobility now with Logos, so I don't have a need for those anymore.

Find more posts tagged with

Comments

John Murphy

Same here. Perhaps a really interesting title now and then, but nothing like I used to, and the ones I have, I'm slowly getting rid of. It's the way the world is going.

Graham Owen

I am curious to know if anybody here still actively buys conventional paper books

I still buy some but increasingly if its not in Logos I actually look for an Audio Version first and if that fails I get a real book. Audio enables me to use the hours I spend in the car more productively.

Wilson Hines

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/188931#Comment_188931

I am curious to know if anybody here still actively buys conventional paper books

I still buy some but increasingly if its not in Logos I actually look for an Audio Version first and if that fails I get a real book. Audio enables me to use the hours I spend in the car more productively.

A commentary in the car?

Jonathan Sine

All resource books I now purchase electronically. Books that I read in entirety I am still inclined to buy in paper. This is primarily because I like to highlight and take notes. And so I wait patiently for Logos to implement this functionality in ipod/ipad apps. Then I would do all my reading in Logos!

TCBlack

I still buy dead tree versions when....

They're not available in Logos.
They're something I need now.
They're likely to remain useful for the long haul.

If it fails one of those tests, I might just hit the library if they have it.

HJ. van der Wal

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/188948#Comment_188948

Two weeks ago there was a second-hand book sale at a neighbouring church. Prices were: 1 euro per book, 3 books for 2 euro 50. Apart from a few interesting titles in Dutch I also discovered a copy of Erickson's Christian Theology and G.E.Ladd's A Theology of the New Testament (1998 revised edition). I had just placed a pre-order for Ladd so it was a tough decision for me. In the end however I bought both books in print and when I got home I cancelled the pre-pub.

Because English is my second foreign language and because the number of non-English resources in Logos is limited, I still buy a lot of dead tree books. However, the number of print books that I buy in English has decreased rapidly in the last few years. When Logos doesn´t offer a specific title, I try to look for a comparable print resource in another language (usually German).

Wilson Hines

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/188971#Comment_188971

Two weeks ago there was a second-hand book sale at a neighbouring church. Prices were: 1 euro per book, 3 books for 2 euro 50. Apart from a few interesting titles in Dutch I also discovered a copy of Erickson's Christian Theology and G.E.Ladd's A Theology of the New Testament (1998 revised edition). I had just placed a pre-order for Ladd so it was a tough decision for me. In the end however I bought both books in print and when I got home I cancelled the pre-pub.

You wouldn't want it in both formats? I find this extremely useful in much of Spurgeon's among others works.

Floyd Johnson

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/188948#Comment_188948

I still buy dead tree versions when....
They're not available in Logos.

They're something I need now.

They're likely to remain useful for the long haul.

If it fails one of those tests, I might just hit the library if they have it.

I will also buy books I want to read. For example, I received, in today's mail, 33 volumes of 39 available of Warren Wiersbe's Classic Sermons series. These are collections of 10 to 15 classic sermons on various topics - Return of Christ, Peter, Paul, etc. I would like to see these available in LOGOS, but these are not there (yet).

HJ. van der Wal

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/188975#Comment_188975

You wouldn't want it in both formats? I find this extremely useful in much of Spurgeon's among others works.

Of course I want to have to have it in Logos!!! I've even bought Bavinck in English just to have it in Logos. But since my financial resources are not unlimited I'd rather buy something else at the moment. Logos has more to offer, also when it comes to theologies of the New Testament......

Dan Francis

What are your leanings? What are your concerns?

I like Digital books... my concern is what happens in a few years... I own the New Interpreter's 12 volume commentary, Study Bible and Dictionary. in Hard back and CD editions. For the most part the HC sit there collecting dust (indeed I only have the NIBD in hard cover because the HC came with a free CDROM, so it was wait for the CD and pay the same price as the hard Cover or pay for the Hard cover and get a free CD version. That said.. the support for the software is dead and I can see in a short while (within five years), being unworkable with current systems. So this commentary i use everyday may need to be replaced, i say replaced rather than upgraded because if someone releases it like Logos I will very likely have to buy it fully again. You may say well at least that can't happen to Logos as long as their around. But that's not true.. Numerous books have been dropped (pulled by publishers, I can use my JKP Daily Bible Study series, but if the day comes when Logos ever stops supporting Libronix files I will lose it along with my Jerome Biblical commentary, and likely my only LLS resource the oxford Bible Commentary).

Technologies change, we have no guarantees that todays digital edition will work on tomorrow's hardware, so while I may by digital books and prefer them, until I hear word of rights being upgradeable I will stay with my core Library in print. A well made book will last over a hundred years, digital is theoretically forever, but is far too vulnerable to the whims of users and trends in the industries.

One final example I own the JKP version of Interpretation, it is not compatible with VISTA or 7 (actually there is a work around, especially since the same software viewer is used for the NIB, which has been updated, though likely for the last time as MS is trying to stop support of Folio now that they own the parent company). I called to inquire of Logos if there would be any upgrade pricing and was told no, but prepub price is always a good savings....(not really considering the JKP version costs less than the Logos prepub). If I was not an owner already I would consider the slightly more expensive Logos version worth it, but I will not buy it again to get it on a better platform.

I remember one person once saying how he looked forward to leaving his Logos Library to his grandson and it is a laudable thing but is it even legally possible to do that, what are the mechanics of it. Especially, God forbid, Logos goes under, or is bought out and turns to only producing something else. On a similar note we can lend a friend a book now, in Logos format we can't lend it out. We can sell our books at a used Christian book store or on ebay, or a flea market for that matter. Electronic books are yours and yours alone (yes kindle and some ebook readers have a lend function, but most currently do not). In some ways I see electronic publishing to be a big scam, often all the cost if not more than a print copy with none of the options to share/get rid of them. I might be wrong but i doubt Logos would want to be called up and told I have sold books a b d and x to... john smith, please transfer the rights to him, it makes them no money and costs them time. I also think of the old and now most abandoned STEP platform, and what a good idea it sounded like only now to be all but gone.

Make no mistake despite all theses misgivings I do purchase and prefer digital books, but I often do ponder how solid an idea it is, and wonder in 50 years if any of these are going to be useful to me or to anyone. Vanity of Vanity all is Vanity.

-dan

Matthew C Jones

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/189022#Comment_189022

Old habits die hard. I am currently reading an 1853 biography of Adoniram Judson. There is something special about holding a book in your hands. I just spent 5 1/2 hours in a waiting room and am happy I took 2 "real" books with me.

But as a matter of practice I am making a concerted effort to buy digital whenever possible. I do not view books as a possession anymore. They have become tools. It was a concept I learned from my father. He is able to pursue a dream, attain it, enjoy it for a season, then let go of it and move on through life. My dead tree library has a similar revolving door on it. I am paying for the privilege of reading a book, not possessing it.

Bob Schlessman

I am curious to know if anybody here still actively buys conventional paper books or do you just sit there, like me, and anxiously wait for Logos to pop another title, set, or resource out on pre-pub?

There are still a number of commentary sets from which that I buy certain volumes in hard copy. Since I serve a very small congregation I have a very limited budget for study resources. I usually tend to buy the gospels commentaries and several of the epistles but only as the need arises. Though I realize that the "bang for the buck" is found in the Logos e-versions, my available dollars on any given day prevent me from buying complete commentary sets even with the payment plan.

The greatest value in Logos for me is in the language tools, the classic writings, organizing tools, and the ability to compare different Bible translations for a given Scripture.

Rosie Perera

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/189039#Comment_189039

I remember one person once saying how he looked forward to leaving his Logos Library to his grandson and it is a laudable thing but is it even legally possible to do that, what are the mechanics of it. .... On a similar note we can lend a friend a book now, in Logos format we can't lend it out. We can sell our books at a used Christian book store or on ebay, or a flea market for that matter. Electronic books are yours and yours alone (yes kindle and some ebook readers have a lend function, but most currently do not). In some ways I see electronic publishing to be a big scam, often all the cost if not more than a print copy with none of the options to share/get rid of them. I might be wrong but i doubt Logos would want to be called up and told I have sold books a b d and x to... john smith, please transfer the rights to him, it makes them no money and costs them time.

Logos does have a mechanism for transferring licenses. There is a small fee (I think it's $25) to do it, to pay for the clerical work involved. You can arrange to do that in your will if you want to leave your library to your offpsring.

Especially, God forbid, Logos goes under, or is bought out and turns to only producing something else.

Yes, of course, there's the rub. We cannot guarantee that Logos will be around forever. They're on pretty solid footing right now, and that should continue for the forseeable future, but you never know. Markets are fickle things. I have not given away my paper library yet and probably won't until I get to the point where I'll have to move into an apartment or retirement home.

I still reach paper books just as often, if not more often, as I read books in Logos. I'm reading an excellent biography of Jonathan Edwards by George Marsden right now, which is not available in Logos format. I definitely still prefer to read fiction and devotional literature in paper format. But things I'm likely to want to quote from in my writing or teaching/preaching I prefer to read in Logos. And of course reference works or things I'm going to want to be able to search through I much prefer to have in digital form.

I do not view books as a possession anymore. They have become tools. It was a concept I learned from my father. He is able to pursue a dream, attain it, enjoy it for a season, then let go of it and move on through life. My dead tree library has a similar revolving door on it. I am paying for the privilege of reading a book, not possessing it.

That is a very freeing attitude to have towards possession of any "stuff" in general. We're not going to take it with us anyway. So to hold on loosely seems a proper relationship to have with it.

Ralph Mauch

I am curious to know if anybody here still actively buys conventional paper books or do you just sit there, like me, and anxiously wait for Logos

I've had some instances where I bought a book and then had to buy the electronic version also, case in point was "NT Theology" by Schreiner. Then there are books that pic my interest because they appeared on someone's reading list via blogs, or my pastor calls if I had a chance to read a certain book and asks what I thought about it (we also have about 6 guys that go through books early before work with our pastor one day a week). Then there are certain books that I have several copies of, because I find myself handing them out... top of that list is "The Call" by Os Guinness, and second is also by him, "God in the Dark". If any of you works with High School or Collage age and bring along your reading material, there is a good chance you will spend more on books then you thoguht [:D], but you have to set up times where you can talk about what they read too. This, from experience can get costly!, but well worth it!

Life is too short to wait for Logos, I've already asked about adding "Scandalous" by Carson, best lttle book I've read in qjuite a while, and already reread several chapters more then twice... it's that good!

Pam Larson

I still buy a lot of conventional books. I'm working on acquiring every book written by P. G. Wodehouse, and I'm about 2/3 of the way there. [:)] I don't think I'll ever stop buying books - I like to be surrounded by them, I like the way they look and feel, I like to sit in an easy chair with a book in my lap and the cat at my feet. But for Bible study I'm at about 90% with Logos. In the past year I've only bought about a dozen or so books from conventional Christian booksellers. But my Logos library has grown from 1,844 resources on 11/3/2009 to 3,312 today. [:O]

Terry Poperszky

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/189103#Comment_189103

I am buying mostly electronic books, but I am buying very little from Logos unless paying the premium for the indexing and tagging provides me a real value. The last several books that I looked at were 30% cheaper on Amazon than they they were from Logos. Since I intended to simply read these books, I was doubtful that the ability to search them worth the higher price that Logos charged. In addition, I don't have to worry about licensing issues and not being able to read what I have bought on the platform of my choice (Mac/iPad/Droid X etc.).

Otto S. Carroll

If a conventional book is a must have (vary rare in my case) and is not available in Logos, I'll buy it. And if it is eventually released in Logos, I will buy the Logos version as well. I'm approaching 5000 resources in my Logos library. I would probably buy no more than 1% of them if paper versions were the only option.

Jonathan Burke

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/189135#Comment_189135

If I want reading material, I buy or swap secondhand books. Very rarely, I'll buy a paperback edition of the classics.

For research, I use Logos or PDFs from the relevant peer reviewed scholarly journals. I stopped buying print research works about three years ago.

Timothy Ha

There are many living Christian authors that write good books that won't be available in Logos very soon, so I still have to buy them in paper.

Of course, there is a problem with receiving them in Russia through U.S. Mail. But it is solvable, and the mail delivery for books is still better than for any other kind of goods.

Nowadays, I am considering on moving towards Kindle versions of books when they are available, but paper books are pretty and nice to have, too.

Wilson Hines

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/189655#Comment_189655

Dan,

Since reading up on BibleWorks about three or four years ago, I found an interesting "about" or "introduction" to digital books and biblical resources that are digital. I can't find it and their website has changed several times, but the basic concept went something like this:

BibleWorks' resource development plan is based on the concept that digital delivery has changed from popular format (standard) to popular format several times in the past 30 years. From tape, 5.25 floppies, hard drives, 3.5" floppies, CD-ROMs, DVD's (and all that -/+ mess). Since formats change, companies die, go out of business, and so forth, it would probably be wise to keep the resource count down, therefore you don't have a heavy investment, all to be let by changing technology and business acquisition and failure. (Of course this is my loose, and I do mean loose, translation)

When I read that concept, had to honestly step back from my much more modest, at the time, library. I probably had 1,500 resources at the time. The concept posed by BW struck me, after I thought long and hard about it, as relevant and also a possible excuse, quite frankly, for not going hot and heavy on book production, as Logos.

I am not being critical of Dan or BW. I am just stating that I've thought about this stuff. It is something to think about. Logos will either be ate up by another company, go broke, dissolve because of the founders age and lack of a "where to go" plan (1), or whatever. All good things must eventually come to an end. It may be after we are all dead and gone, but eventually this is going to happen.

It does cross my mind.

(1) Footnote: Recently, I have seen four different family businesses cease doing business. They were restaurants, electrical supply company, and two real-estate businesses. I am not talking about small mom-pop shops. That restaurant was a huge steak house and they still open when you are willing to rent the place out for an occasion, minimum of $10k. The electrical supply place was very large, probably employing 100 people. The real estate offices both ceased because of the same reason all these places ceased: Lack of interest or ability by the children of the owners. When my dad retires, I will be teaching in a bible college somewhere and I've already spent my last moment with interest in his business. Rosie, just because investors are in a small business doesn't insulate it from this, either.

Timothy Ha

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/189693#Comment_189693

There should be some way to catch up with Logos' business, if the publishers allow the resources to continue in Logos format even if Bob Pritchett discontinues.

The licences that are given to and through Logos, what are they attached to exactly?

Matthew C Jones

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/189693#Comment_189693

BibleWorks about three or four years ago, I found an interesting "about" or "introduction" to digital books and biblical resources that are digital. I can't find it and their website has changed several times, but the basic concept went something like this:

I read that too. I found it interesting coming from a company that does not offer extensive resources. [:)] You will notice BibleWorks has increased their resource offerings with the release of Version 8 as well as dropped their philosophic statement. [:D]

When I was young there were typewriter repair shops and copy machine stores everywhere. We had floppy disks (8", 5.25", 3.5"), streaming tape drives, VCRs, crt monitors and analog TV sets. Obsolecense has claimed them all.

Digital books are on this side of the divide. The format is the present & future of library holdings. Logos is now on the cutting edge of that future with online synchronization. You only need to worry about the infrastructure that delivers those "0s" & "1s" to your computer. Your electricity power grid and your internet service provider are the shaky parts of your library access. The technology that Logos operates on is much more secure.

The concern over Logos being a family business is probably over-blown. I think it works in favor of Logos' future security instead. No one cares for the sheep like their shepherd John 10:11-13. While the hired hand runs, the real shepherd faces the danger to defend the flock. (Bob Pritchett states a similar idea in chapter 3 of his book saying "Nobody loves your baby like you do.") As long as Logos offers a quality product that meets a need, there will be people who buy it.

You probably spend a lot more on your transportation and wardrobe than you do on Logos. Your Logos investment will outlive both of those expenditures. Nothing material in this world will go with you when you pass on. But if Logos Bible software can help you know the Saviour and do his will in this life, that is an investment in the future that will carry into eternity. (I hope I'm not getting theological again.)

Todd Phillips

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/189711#Comment_189711

You will notice BibleWorks has increased their resource offerings with the release of Version 8 as well as dropped their philosophic statement.

They still have this statement on their modules page:

"Books, on the other hand, are independent of computers. If you use certain
reference works on a daily basis, it may make sense to purchase electronic
editions, and, for this reason, we are providing (and will continue to
provide) a limited collection of locked electronic resources for those who
want them. But in our opinion it makes sense to buy print editions first,
then electronic editions if you find you really need them."

Wilson Hines

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/189711#Comment_189711

BibleWorks about three or four years ago, I found an interesting "about" or "introduction" to digital books and biblical resources that are digital. I can't find it and their website has changed several times, but the basic concept went something like this:

The concern over Logos being a family business is probably over-blown. I think it works in favor of Logos' future security instead. No one cares for the sheep like their shepherd John 10:11-13. While the hired hand runs, the real shepherd faces the danger to defend the flock. (Bob Pritchett states a similar idea in chapter 3 of his book saying "Nobody loves your baby like you do.") As long as Logos offers a quality product that meets a need, there will be people who buy it.

Matthew what you said about Logos being a family business is true. People will always buy from Logos as long as they keep doing what they are doing. Here's the catch. With my footnote, I talked about places, like that restaurant, that was owned by a family business and the owners got in their early 70's and quite frankly had made millions off this restaurant over the decades. The children were no longer in the family business and were in their 40's and 50's with their own lives and revenue sources. The last time I was in that steak house it was packed just like Outback, with about 100 people waiting in line (the place is two stories and is like an old farm hay barn - it is huge. The customers could not believe the place "went under." It didn't "go under," it went out of business, but by choice. The owners wanted to retire.

The point of what I was saying is that this could possibly be a path that Logos takes, among dozens of paths. Quality, availability and customer service and such were all present in all of those businesses I mentioned, down to the last day of operation.

BTW, postulating the end of Logos is weird LOL

Matthew C Jones

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/189715#Comment_189715

They still have this statement on their modules page:

Thanks for pointing it out. I upgraded to BW8 because of their increased resources. (The Japanese language Bibles in particular.) I find Bible study with digital resources much more productive than with a desk cluttered with 10 open volumes and me paging back & forth through them. I think the good folks at BibleWorks knows this to be true or they wouldn't be in business. I haven't yet upgraded my BibleWorks BDAG/HALOT module to BW8 (even though it is free) because I have it in Logos and like having all my library in one place.

The only benefit I see in owning dead tree versions of research materials is when one loses electricity or internet access during an ice storm or goes tent camping in Yellowstone National Park. (Try lugging that library when quickly retreating from a black bear.[:O] )

Todd Phillips

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/189725#Comment_189725

tent camping in Yellowstone National Park. (Try lugging that library when quickly retreating from a black bear. )

Well you could use the large volumes as either shields or a weapons during that bear attack.

Of course, you'd have to replace them with your own money--paper books aren't replaced by the publisher when you lose them (Logos books are!).

Matthew C Jones

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/189721#Comment_189721

The customers could not believe the place "went under." It didn't "go under," it went out of business, but by choice. The owners wanted to retire.

BTW, postulating the end of Logos is weird LOL

I seriously doubt Bob Pritchett would miss the opportunity to turn a profit if he ever decided to leave the company. [:P]
There is no accounting for why a successful businessman would shut down a lucrative enterprise rather than sell it. I am still trying to figure out why Gateway took over Amiga computers just to deep-six them. There was profit to be made and Gateway actually spent money to kill all hope.

But this is all speculation and most certainly beyond my life expectancy (10 years?). My college has closed, my corporation filed bankruptcy and two of my physicians have died. I have watched some people be born, raised, married and buried: all within my short lifespan. Money is just a tool I would rather use towards Bible study than entertainment. None of it lasts forever. There will only be one "Logos" in heaven and you won't need a computer to access him.

Jonathan Sine

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/189730#Comment_189730

Money is just a tool I would rather use towards Bible study than entertainment. None of it lasts forever. There will only be one "Logos" in heaven and you won't need a computer to access him.

Love it!!

Todd Vierheller

If I want to read a book, I buy a print copy. Only if I want to
be able to search it electronically, do I buy a Logos version. I own
print versions of many of my Logos books--certainly of most Logos titles I purchased
outside of the base package, and many that were in the base package.
Sometimes I want to be able to search on a book, but I really don't want to own
it, and then I buy only the Logos version.

When I see an interesting pre-pub, I look for it in print. I generally
find most books for less than the pre-pub prices (and usually in
hardback). Many times I also want to be able to include the book in
searches, so I'll buy the Logos pre-pub as well. The most typical things I buy
as pre-pubs are theologies (which I also buy in print to read) and collections
such as the works of Francis Schaeffer, J.N. Darby, Carl F.H. Henry, Jonathan
Edwards, and the Pseudepigrapha (all of which I also have in print). Many
books are well organized enough that I have no need to spend the money on a
pre-pub when I can get the print version for considerably less money.

When I find a journal article I want to read, I print it out. But
(with a few exceptions) I much prefer to get the Logos collection of journals
from Galaxie Software. That is because I mostly search on them.

So yes, there are those of us who still purchase, read, and prefer
conventional paper books. Logos is an excellent research tool, but it's
not for general reading (for me).

fgh

I am curious to know if anybody here still actively buys conventional paper books ... ?

Short answer: of course!

I have several thousand books. Out of all those, maybe one shelf now exist in Logos format (and most of those are Bibles and stuff I want/need on paper as well). With all that I've bought from Logos in the last 1,5 months I've come up with the grand sum of exactly 3 books that I can now get rid of...

Not everyone here is an English-speaking Evangelical pastor. 90-99% of the books that most interest me aren't likely to turn up in Logos in my life time. Most of them aren't even worth suggesting.

Jonathan Burke

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/190106#Comment_190106

I had to leave a small library of several hundred books in Australia when I moved to Taiwan. At that point I realised that hard copy had to be treated as ephemerals.

For research, hardcopy is simply out of the question now. The cost, storage space required, and search time, make it completely impractical. Outside Logos I have several thousand reference works and journal articles in electronic format. I could never research as effectively in hardcopy as I can electronically.

Quick Links

Recent Posts
Activity
Unanswered