Morph Code Cross Reference
Okay --so I have the very nice pdf from the wiki that explains what the morph codes relate to, but... What I'd really like to see is some way to link the morph codes to a resource like the Hebrew Bible Insert. In other words, when you click on a morph code, it takes you to an explanation of how words of that morph code are used grammatically.
In other words, I know that RBSC1 means, "pronoun, suffixed, singular, first person." But it would be nice to have this link to a resource that says something like:
This is a pronoun, which means it is a noun substituting for a noun used as a personal name.
This is suffixed, which could show x, y, or z.
This is singular, which means it refers to one person.
...
This might seem really simple to some folks --and maybe it's a dumb request-- but... In the case of verbs, especially, with all the various possible tenses/moods/voices/etc, it would be really nice, I think. Especially if you're really just trying to get started reading the language.
Russ
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Russ White said:
Okay --so I have the very nice pdf from the wiki that explains what the morph codes relate to, but... What I'd really like to see is some way to link the morph codes to a resource like the Hebrew Bible Insert. In other words, when you click on a morph code, it takes you to an explanation of how words of that morph code are used grammatically.
In other words, I know that RBSC1 means, "pronoun, suffixed, singular, first person." But it would be nice to have this link to a resource that says something like:
This is a pronoun, which means it is a noun substituting for a noun used as a personal name.
This is suffixed, which could show x, y, or z.
This is singular, which means it refers to one person....
This might seem really simple to some folks --and maybe it's a dumb request-- but... In the case of verbs, especially, with all the various possible tenses/moods/voices/etc, it would be really nice, I think. Especially if you're really just trying to get started reading the language.
Russ
I never learned the morph codes and have no intention of doing so. There are better ways of handling that. If you need some help in identifying a form in the BHS then you can mouse over the form and a pop-up at the bottom of the screen will identify it in fairly plain English. Best is to simply learn how to identify the forms. I don't particularly suggest that you attempt to memorize the paradigms, but you could look through them to find the identifying characteristics of each form. The Hebrew Bible Insert has a listing of the forms, but Futato's Beginning Biblical Hebrew will explain how each is derived. Once you have learned the characteristics of each form and how the various weak verbs change, it is more or less simple to identify them while reading. Of course, you could also go to the classic Gesenius grammar or to Joüon-Muraoka, but it is best to start with the more simplified explanation.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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It would be nice, though, if the morph code linked to the appropriate article in either the Hebrew Bible Insert or Beginning Biblical Hebrew. It would just make it faster to find it/etc., for those moments when you don't remember. So this isn't necessarily a new resource, but perhaps just coding a couple of existing resources so they will link in with the reverse interlinears and the Hebrew texts.
Russ
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Russ White said:
In other words, I know that RBSC1 means, "pronoun, suffixed, singular, first person." But it would be nice to have this link to a resource that says something like:
This is a pronoun, which means it is a noun substituting for a noun used as a personal name.
This is suffixed, which could show x, y, or z.
This is singular, which means it refers to one person.You can sort of do this through the information panel, but there's lots of caveats.
- Open it from the tools menu panel.
- I prefer to chose "on click" from settings, but that's up to you. Then click on a Hebrew word in BHS.
- You'll get a definition of the Hebrew word from your preferred lexicon, then the morphology spelled out (noun, common, masculine, etc.).
- But each of morphology words will be also be linked. First caveat, you can't left-click on them. However but you can right-click on them, make sure 'selection' is selected, then choose lookup to open your preferred dictionary, or choose from one of the five dictionaries at the bottom of the list.
- Second caveat: you'll probably want to make sure both a Greek and Hebrew grammar dictionary are prioritised above your English dictionaries and encyclopaedias.
- Third caveat: The Greek and Hebrew inserts aren't indexed by headword, so they're no good in this context. Indeed, I don't have a Hebrew grammar primer that is referenced by headword (though I have one in Greek).
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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I know its asking a lot to those of you with "Full ON" Original Language Skills, but I would love to see a "Decode sheet"to atleast the Logos Morph codes which I thinnk Ross is pointing at.
If this exists in a resource perhaps someone can point me in the right direction, other wise maybe we can start putting something together in the wiki.
I was thinking something along lines of :
Code:VPAI2P
Tell: Verb Perfect Active Indicative 2nd Person Plural
Decoded: What this means in simple english, and anything non original language speakers would need to avoid or emphasise which gets lost in translation of the tense/voice/mood etc..Never Deprive Anyone of Hope.. It Might Be ALL They Have
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DominicM said:
I know its asking a lot to those of you with "Full ON" Original Language Skills, but I would love to see a "Decode sheet"to atleast the Logos Morph codes which I thinnk Ross is pointing at.
If this exists in a resource perhaps someone can point me in the right direction, other wise maybe we can start putting something together in the wiki.
I was thinking something along lines of :
Code:VPAI2P
Tell: Verb Perfect Active Indicative 2nd Person Plural
Decoded: What this means in simple english, and anything non original language speakers would need to avoid or emphasise which gets lost in translation of the tense/voice/mood etc..Then why not make a note file with these codes. You could make each variable a note within the note file and click on the appropriate note.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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LOL George - Most days English is my second language - I wish I knew Grammar, but I doent..
I think it may benefit the community... but maybe wrong
Never Deprive Anyone of Hope.. It Might Be ALL They Have
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Mark Barnes said:
Indeed, I don't have a Hebrew grammar primer that is referenced by headword (though I have one in Greek).
For Greek the Glossary of Morpho-Syntactic Database Terminology which is linked to the morphological information in the information tool is fairly plain. Also an IVP collection is available which has the Pocket Dictionary For the Study of New Testament Greek is also reasonably clear. For Hebrew however the Anderson Forbes glossary which is linked to the morph description in the information tool is not very English friendly. Does anyone know of a resource available in Logos that is clear and is referenced by headwords?
"For the kingdom of God does not consist in words but in power"
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DominicM said:
LOL George - Most days English is my second language - I wish I knew Grammar, but I doent..
I think it may benefit the community... but maybe wrong
You rather surprised me with that statement. I'm still not sure I should take you seriously since you say "Most days ..." There is another solution which doesn't involve learning the codes or having a crib sheet to tell you what they mean. If you hover over the Greek (or Hebrew) it will tell you in plain English what you need to know about a word. E.g. in Re 17.2
2 μεθʼ ἧς ἐπόρνευσαν οἱ βασιλεῖς τῆς γῆς καὶ ἐμεθύσθησαν οἱ κατοικοῦντες τὴν γῆν ἐκ τοῦ οἴνου τῆς πορνείας αὐτῆς.
If you over over the word οἶνου you will see a pop-up at the bottom of the window (and I checked this with the UBS4 Int) which states "οἶνος noun, genitive, singular, masculine; LN 6.197; wine." Forget the codes (actually, I would say "Learn Greek and forget the interlinear.").
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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George Somsel said:
I'm still not sure I should take you seriously since you say "Most days ..."
I am actually half Danish.. dont hold that against me [:D]
I am learning NT Greek, but I wouldnt say its easy, and will likely take many years to be proficient..
Never Deprive Anyone of Hope.. It Might Be ALL They Have
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DominicM said:
I am actually half Danish.. dont hold that against me
Right side, left side, top or bottom ? [;)]
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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I'm not really looking for a list of the morph codes --there is one of those on the wiki, and you can hover for it. What I'm looking for is an explanation of the parts of speech. I'm pretty good at grammar, but I sometimes forget what the nineteenth participial ending of the fourteenth verb form means. It would be nice to have a "ready reference" for what the part of speech actually does when you click on the specific part of speech described in the morph code. Of course, some of them are obvious, but still... Combinations would be nice, too.
Just seems this would be a nice resource for those who either want to work with the original languages and don't know them, or know them but don't work with them enough to remember every possible form of everything.
Russ
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DominicM said:
I know its asking a lot to those of you with "Full ON" Original Language Skills, but I would love to see a "Decode sheet"to atleast the Logos Morph codes which I thinnk Ross is pointing at.
If this exists in a resource perhaps someone can point me in the right direction, other wise maybe we can start putting something together in the wiki.
I was thinking something along lines of :
Code:VPAI2P
Tell: Verb Perfect Active Indicative 2nd Person Plural
Decoded: What this means in simple english, and anything non original language speakers would need to avoid or emphasise which gets lost in translation of the tense/voice/mood etc..I do not have "Full ON" Original Language Skills. But I did create a decode sheet for the morph codes Logos uses. It doesn't make any attempt to show you what order Logos puts them in so that you can distinguish between the first and the second P in VPAI2P, for example. But it's a start.
http://wiki.logos.com/Morphology_Codes
Again, as others have pointed out, there are usually other ways in Logos for you to see the decoded morphology, so knowing how to decode the morph codes isn't all that important. But if someone wants to take on the project of moving from my Morph Codes cheat sheet to a fuller thing like what Dominic wants to see, be my guest!
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BTW, what I would really like is for the definitions in this:
Heiser, Michael S. Glossary of Morpho-Syntactic Database Terminology, Logos Bible Software, 2005; 2005.
to be cross linked to the morph codes in either the exegetical guide, or the "hover balloon" in the reverse interlinear, or both, if possible. That would make it so you could click and get the definitions of different parts of speech easily, without being forced to look them up when you hit one.
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That's exactly what I would like too, Russ ... can we please have this, Logos?
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Hi Russ
Russ White said:BTW, what I would really like is for the definitions in this:
Heiser, Michael S. Glossary of Morpho-Syntactic Database Terminology, Logos Bible Software, 2005; 2005.
to be cross linked to the morph codes in either the exegetical guide, or the "hover balloon" in the reverse interlinear, or both, if possible.
Isn't this what's already happening with Exegetical Guide? At least on my end it appears so; the def in the popup (which fires on hover) is from the Glossary of Morpho-Syntactic Database Terminology. Also on the NT side, note also that if you have the Lexham Syntactic Greek New Testament: Expansions and Annotations (NA27 or SBLGNT editions), if you hover a grammatical term then a definition from either the GMSDT or the LSGNT Glossary will appear.
Rick Brannan | Bluesky: rickbrannan.com
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Yes --now if we could get that option in the reverse interlinear as well...
:-)
Russ
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ok, I have he pop up for the greek. But what about hebrew? Is there a way to make this resource come up for the hebrew morph. code?
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Kris Decker said:
ok, I have he pop up for the greek. But what about hebrew? Is there a way to make this resource come up for the hebrew morph. code?
Peace to you, Kris! *smile* Welcome to the Logos Forums where volunteers from around the world try to help and support and encourage one another 24 Hours a day!
I'm sorry that your post seems to have fallen through the cracks and no one has responded to you. I'm going to ask you please to re-phrase your request by making it more specific and to post again. It would be even better if you would start a new thread since this one that you attached your original post to is over a year old; and perhaps no one spotted it! Anyway, Blessings and Peace; and we hope to hear from you again!
Philippians 4: 4 Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, Rejoice. 5 Let your reasonableness be known to everyone. The Lord is at hand..........
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Kris Decker said:
ok, I have he pop up for the greek. But what about hebrew? Is there a way to make this resource come up for the hebrew morph. code?
I just opened my BHS 4.2 to Prov 21.28 (It just happened to be the last place open when I closed it) and picked at random a word in the middle of the page—שׁוֹמֵ֥ר. When I hover over the word I see שׁמר; verb, qal, participle, masculine, singular, absolute. This appears in the bottom left corner of the resource. Is this what you wanted?
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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Kris Decker said:
ok, I have he pop up for the greek. But what about hebrew? Is there a way to make this resource come up for the hebrew morph. code?
Yes, there is a way. We're updating this glossary to work with a wider variety of morphology data types.
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Vincent Setterholm said:Kris Decker said:
ok, I have he pop up for the greek. But what about hebrew? Is there a way to make this resource come up for the hebrew morph. code?
Yes, there is a way. We're updating this glossary to work with a wider variety of morphology data types.
I'm told this update has shipped.
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Thank you Vincent for remembering this thread! It downloaded into my Logos5.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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