Why is Amplified Bible missing from base packages?
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Thanks Graham, those are very useful comments. Ted, sorry to have been obscure. I usually say 'NET', except where I think someone might not be familiar with the abbreviation. In this case it seems to have backfired!
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I does seem odd that if you type new english translation into your library the Net Bible is about sixth in rank and is lost in a long list of other resources.
"For the kingdom of God does not consist in words but in power"
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*smile*
In my library, NET Noteless was # 35
New Living Translation was #1
Peace to you!
Philippians 4: 4 Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, Rejoice. 5 Let your reasonableness be known to everyone. The Lord is at hand..........
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Graham Owen said:
I did understand your use of the "lay person" in context and personally feel that it is one of those "loaded" phrases that we need to be careful about
I understood Jonathan's use of the word also. And I don't believe he meant anything derogatory by using it. The point raised is a valid concern; students of the Bible need to know how to properly use the study tools available. But I would hope their pastor, family and trusted friends would be the ones they look to when they go weeding out the "dangerous" stumbling blocks. Logos provides a wide array of study tools. A student cannot reconcile all viewpoints included within the Logos program resources. God has provided for our instruction in things doctrinal. It is our own responsibility to study and recognize correct doctrine.
My father, brother, son, and soon-to-be son-in-law are all clergy. They are trained for full-time, paid ministry and missionary work. I have many friends who have the specialized training but minister without compensation and feed their families working as a "lay" persons. I also know many who never had the chance for formal training yet they work tirelessly serving in their local congregations. Logos is not an absolute requirement for successful ministry for any of these individuals any more than a college degree is. But we probably are in agreement, formal education is helpful to ministry. I would extend that argument to say Logos is helpful to ministry. Even with the lesser helpful resources included.
"Laity" & "Clergy" can mean so many different things in different circles. Usually the distinction lies only in the fact of whether or not the people a pastor serves recognize it and reward accordingly. If a flock doesn't recognize, appreciate or reward a pastor it does not lessen the value of the ministry performed. The world has millions of uncompensated and under-compensated clergy. It is a sad distinction created by men that has barred many willing from serving God and excused many selfish from the same. Of all the Apostles, Paul is apparently the only one with formal religious training. The rest were all "lay" men equipped with nothing more than Jesus' teachings and the in-dwelling Holy Spirit. sarcasm alert [A] Just imagine what they could have accomplished with good Bible software! [6]
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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Matthew C Jones said:
sarcasm alert
Just imagine what they could have accomplished with good Bible software! 
They wouldn't have needed it - they had the original texts [:D]
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Matthew C Jones said:
But I would hope their pastor, family and trusted friends would be the ones they look to when they go weeding out the "dangerous" stumbling blocks.
Speaking as a Pastor Logos introduces a new level of challenge because the material being read is basically "invisible". The great thing about "real books" is that when you visit someone in their own home you can learn quite a lot from their book shelves and the books that are lying around. Unfortunately many Christians, even well educated ones, assume that any book in a Christian book store will be useful. It can also take time to develop the type of relationship with people required for them to discuss what they are reading openly.
Same with Bible Versions, I have a collection called Bibles Used In Church that contains all of the Bibles that I know are used regularly by members of the Church. Interesting omission in the context of this thread is the Amplified but I have that covered off in a hardcopy KJV, Amplified, NIV and NASB parallel. I use the collection to check for variations in the translation that might cause confusion.
Matthew C Jones said:Paul is apparently the only one with formal religious training. The rest were all "lay" men equipped with nothing more than Jesus' teachings and the in-dwelling Holy Spirit.
...and they turned the world upside down! This is of course the paradox and it does seem that there is a danger that we are so busy learning more that w have no time to fulfil the mission that God has given us. Unfortunately it seems that the more we think we know, the more we realise we don't know so the more we study to know.
Another challenge is that not everyone is equipped to study, I know someone who took a theology degree after he retired. He now has a memory full of information, theories and facts that he has no idea how to use and does not really understand that he throws in to discussions. He simply does not have the mental capacity to manage the range and depth of information that the degree covered. His Pastor has tried to address the issues this causes but he remains convinced that the others do not understand because they do not have his theological and intellectual capacity when the reality is that they can't understand because he does not understand and therefore can not explain!
I would rather people had and used the tools to stretch them, even if they do not use them correctly than work with people who are happy to do nothing. As a sweeping and unsubstantiated observation most people that I have known that used the Amplified did so because they had a real desire to develop a better understanding of God's Word as a result the look for other resources to help them and do not rely solely on the Amplified version to improve their knowledge.
The most common misuse that I see of the Amplified, is the one that is common to all versions and that is when the writer or speaker uses it because it better expresses what they want scripture to say. I appreciate that all of the "extra" words makes this easier with the Amplified but in this case the problem is not the uninformed user but actually someone who should know better. The most common occurrence of this seems to be in the daily devotionals where the Amplified and Message are often used to support the daily "wisdom" they deliver.
God Bless
Graham
Pastor - NTCOG Basingstoke
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Graham Owen said:
Speaking as a Pastor Logos introduces a new level of challenge because the material being read is basically "invisible". The great thing about "real books" is that when you visit someone in their own home you can learn quite a lot from their book shelves and the books that are lying around.
My pastor may also be concerned to know I have things in my library he would rather I not expose myself to (Jimmy Swaggart, Calvin, St Augustine, NIV, Anchor Yale Bible.) But I think it might be rather refreshing for a church member to ask their pastor "is there free will in heaven" instead of "what's wrong with allowing my daughter's boyfriend to move in to her bedroom in my home?"
Graham Owen said:This is of course the paradox and it does seem that there is a danger that we are so busy learning more that w have no time to fulfil the mission that God has given us.
But you probably agree our study time can be much more productive using Logos as a tool, thereby giving us more "free" time to get busy for God.
Graham Owen said:look for other resources to help them and do not rely solely on the Amplified version to improve their knowledge.
Which is why I am not too worried about people having access to it. I enjoy The Amplified Bible and paid Logos $29 for it. But I wont adopt Bible doctrine from it any quicker than I would from the Chronicles of Narnia (of which I am also fond.)
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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Matthew C Jones said:
My pastor may also be concerned to know I have things in my library he would rather I not expose myself to
Matthew, you seem to be able to take care of yourself and I would hope that your Pastor knows that...
I know a lot of people in my denomination would be shocked at some of the material I not only read but actively seek out because I feel that it is as important to read stuff that challenges what I believe as it is to read stuff that affirms what I believe. For me this is the process that ensures that I understand what I believe and better equips me to explain what I believe.
Matthew C Jones said:"is there free will in heaven"
There's a lady in my Church who you must have been talking to, she asks this sort of question all the time. Many times I have really thanked God for Logos' search capabilities and I have been able to print a few pages with information to help her (and me!!!).
Matthew C Jones said:instead of "what's wrong with allowing my daughter's boyfriend to move in to her bedroom in my home?"
You're kidding, right?
Matthew C Jones said:much more productive using Logos as a too
This is the crux of why and how I use Logos, I simply get more quality study per minute and can access a wider range of material more quickly. I do however have to control my addiction to fascinating information when I use it, my library is close to 3,000 books (and growing) and that's a lot of pages of information.
I not only encourage people to use Bible Software but I buy it for them, I started when Logos had the starter library and now tend to get one of the Nelson Essential Packages. My plan is simple, "teach a man (or woman) to fish". The logic is clear, give people the tools to dig deeper for themselves and you have stronger Christians.
God Bless
Graham
Pastor - NTCOG Basingstoke
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Graham Owen said:Matthew C Jones said:
"is there free will in heaven"
There's a lady in my Church who you must have been talking to, she asks this sort of question all the time. Many times I have really thanked God for Logos' search capabilities and I have been able to print a few pages with information to help her (and me!!!).
You can refer her to this Logos resource:
"Will There Be Free Will in Heaven?: Freedom, Impeccability and Beatitude" is included in the Christian Approaches to Contemporary Thinking Collection (6 vols.)Graham Owen said:Matthew C Jones said:instead of "what's wrong with allowing my daughter's boyfriend to move in to her bedroom in my home?"
You're kidding, right?
Sadly, No. I had the unpleasant experience of being an elder who answered this and similar questions. I am familiar with Jeremiah's distress, being a watchman who cried out warnings that were not heeded.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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Graham Owen said:
I know a lot of people in my denomination would be shocked at some of the material I not only read but actively seek out because I feel that it is as important to read stuff that challenges what I believe as it is to read stuff that affirms what I believe. For me this is the process that ensures that I understand what I believe and better equips me to explain what I believe.
Amen - You are not alone. We 'have' to read what every book in our library says on a subject [It then takes a month to study each verse in all 300 plus commentaries] But do we learn
[The fun part is figuring out where THEY went 'astray' (define ASTRAY as a belief other then MINE) [And the only way to do that is to study how THEY got to THEIR stand] But some one of these days some of US (define US as all LOGOS users who use all of their books and not just the ones 'that affirms what [they] believe') are going to find out that they are in the wrong Church [which is why 'lot of people in my denomination' do not want US reading that 'JUNK' (define JUNK as anything not approved by your denomination)] ] [Which is why the Bible is baned in some middle east nations]
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Graham Owen, I have seen how God has worked through the scriptures to increase my faith, I believe the Holy Spirit uses the written Word of God to teach all believers.
As a teaching elder in the fellowship I attend, I spend my time showing believers how to study the scriptures themselves. My focus is on getting them to understand their relationship with God, this happens by interaction with God's written word and God revealing Himself to them.
I have never seen so much growth in believers, I can not believe the maturity that come from just studying the scriptures for yourselves and spending time with God, and Him teaching them!!! Faith does come from hearing and hearing the Word of God!
I spend time teaching believers biblical hermeneutics and bible study methods which includes how use tools to help you understand the culture and languages from the time period the scriptures were written in.
I thank God for the glory of His grace and what he is doing in my life and the lives of those around me.
In Christ,
Jim VanSchoonhoven
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God Bless
Graham
Pastor - NTCOG Basingstoke
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