Logos 4 and Gottingen LXX - Visual Filters

Hi All,

Extremely existed about using the LXX Gottingen edition...one question. Is it possible to apply visual filters to the text? It seems as if this is not possible, due to the fact that the LXX Gott editions are not listed as possible resources?

Your assistance will be appreciated

Thx

Peter

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Peter Nagel

If I may, I would just like to add to my post that I realized with a shock that morphological searching the LXX Gottingen is not possible, therefore the visual filtering in terms of lemma occurrences will also not be possible. This is a disappointment indeed.

Am I missing something?

Ted Hans

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/195172#Comment_195172

If I may, I would just like to add to my post that I realized with a shock that morphological searching the LXX Gottingen is not possible, therefore the visual filtering in terms of lemma occurrences will also not be possible. This is a disappointment indeed.

Am I missing something?

See Blog for more info http://blog.logos.com/archives/2010/11/last_chance_gottingen_septuagint_shipping_soon.html

"The version that ships next week will include the text and the
apparatus. We are still completing the morphology, and it will be
released in stages during the next few months. We know that many of our
users will benefit from having the text and apparatus next week, even if
the morphology isn’t ready yet. Many Septuagint scholars have been
waiting for the Logos edition of the text and the apparatus, and we
didn’t want to wait until the morphology was complete to begin releasing
what’s available now."

Eric Weiss

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/195175#Comment_195175

Ok. Maybe that should have gone out with the announcement that it was being released today. I didn't catch that in the blog.

I can wait; I don't intend to do any morph searches that I can't do with Rahlfs or the Logos LXX.

Question: If the Gottingen morph search is strictly with the text and not the apparatus, what text does Gottingen use? I assume it's different in many places from Rahlfs, correct?

George Somsel

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/195175#Comment_195175

See Blog for more info http://blog.logos.com/archives/2010/11/last_chance_gottingen_septuagint_shipping_soon.html

"The version that ships next week will include the text and the apparatus. We are still completing the morphology, and it will be released in stages during the next few months. We know that many of our users will benefit from having the text and apparatus next week, even if the morphology isn’t ready yet. Many Septuagint scholars have been waiting for the Logos edition of the text and the apparatus, and we didn’t want to wait until the morphology was complete to begin releasing what’s available now."

I don't know how much use this will be without the ability to do a morphological search. Since it will not differ greatly from the Rahlf's version with Logos morphology, I suppose it would be largely helpful to search the Logos LXX and link it with the Göttingen. I would rather, however, that they had waited until it was finished. Financially this is not a good time.

David Knoll

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/195179#Comment_195179

Question: If the Gottingen morph search is strictly with the text and not the apparatus, what text does Gottingen use? I assume it's different in many places from Rahlfs, correct?

The text is what the editor of each volume thought is closest to the original Greek. The edition diverges from Rahlfs in 3,706 2,782 details according to a search I just ran. I think that would be less than 5% of the text.

IMPORTANT: When searching the apparatuses limit your search to the surface text! I searched "Ra." which is mentioned in the description of Codex B in "Esdras II". That led to incorrect search results...

Eric Weiss

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/195202#Comment_195202

How did you do a Rahlfs to Göttingen comparison? I assume Rahlfs-Hanhart to Göttingen would show fewer divergences.

David Knoll

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/195203#Comment_195203

The Göttingen Edition contains a symbol for Rahlfs (Ra.) I searched that symbol through all the apparatuses.

I think we live in a different era now. I always wondered about the extent to which Göttingen diverges from Rahlfs. With the new Logos edition it took me 0.55 seconds to find out.

As for Hanhart I have no way of checking since I don't know if and in what manner the corrections made by Hanhart are indicated in any edition.

Peter Nagel

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/195219#Comment_195219

Thanks for all the replies on my initial question and concern. It is unfortunate that they did not make this clear while marketing the pre-pub release of the Göttingen LXX. I truly hope this will be done sooner than later.

Just to respond to the question relating to what text the Göttingen LXX. Well first one has to say there is no 'the' LXX text, only constructed LXX, of which the Göttingen LXX is but one, with the primary difference of having more detailed text critical apparatus providing a wealth of information on variant readings, whereas Ralphs' edition, at most, show the variant readings in comparison between the 'main' codexes: Sinaiticus, Alexandrinus and Vaticanus.

Regards,

Todd Moore

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/195220#Comment_195220

Am I the only person who was not aware that the Gottingen LXX is not a complete text of the LXX? My very first search for Hab. 2:4 revealed that only Hab. 3 is included for that book! I called Logos and the customer service person told me that the web site listed all the volumes included (which is true). However, at no point in the body of the main sales description is it made clear that the Gottingen is not a complete text of the LXX. The description repeats the word "LXX." Why would anyone think to check the details to see if "LXX" doesn't really mean "LXX"? I am so disappointed since I had been a happy but impatient Accordance user. When I saw that Logos had Gottingen, I purchased it for that reason only. Now I am quite dissatisfied.

BTW - I was also assured over the phone, before purchasing, that it was a tagged searchable text.

George Somsel

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/197348#Comment_197348

Am I the only person who was not aware that the Gottingen LXX is not a complete text of the LXX? My very first search for Hab. 2:4 revealed that only Hab. 3 is included for that book! I called Logos and the customer service person told me that the web site listed all the volumes included (which is true). However, at no point in the body of the main sales description is it made clear that the Gottingen is not a complete text of the LXX. The description repeats the word "LXX." Why would anyone think to check the details to see if "LXX" doesn't really mean "LXX"? I am so disappointed since I had been a happy but impatient Accordance user. When I saw that Logos had Gottingen, I purchased it for that reason only. Now I am quite dissatisfied.

BTW - I was also assured over the phone, before purchasing, that it was a tagged searchable text.

You may indeed be the only one who was not aware that the Göttingen LXX doesn't contain more than chapter 3 of Habbukuk since it clearly states that fact on the page describing the edition. I too am disappointed that it hasn't been morph tagged since it makes it more difficult to check unfamiliar words. I would have preferred that they had waited to release it until they had tagged it. BTW: My understanding is that they rushed it out the door before tagging so that it would be available to those who wanted it immediately but that they do intend to update it with morphology in the near future.

If you are truly unhappy with the product, Bob has stated that they will take back a product you find unsatisfactory (within a reasonable time).

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/197348#Comment_197348

Hi Todd

Welcome to the forum, and also welcome to Logos! To cut to the chase, you're not the only one. When I first ordered, I thought it was the 'LXX'. Later on I figured it out, after researching it. And then after receiving it, I'd forgotten again when I typed in a reference. And indeed the product copy kind of implies the whole thing, though the detailed listing is accurate. I'd assume the Logos rep's answer to tagging referred to its completion this spring, without telling you that (not sure when you called; the delayed tagging announcement was about 2 wks before release).

So, your frustration is certainly understandable. That said, you have the choice of Logos' money-back policy. But I wouldn't recommend it, since the price you paid is extremely attractive, the tagging will show up in the spring AND you'll own TWO great Bible software packages too. And no offense to your other software, but I'd be even more antsy waiting for each individual book. But your frustration is merited; the copy could be more clear.

Rick Brannan (Logos)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/195184#Comment_195184

Hi Folks

See Blog for more info http://blog.logos.com/archives/2010/11/last_chance_gottingen_septuagint_shipping_soon.html

"The version that ships next week will include the text and the apparatus. We are still completing the morphology, and it will be released in stages during the next few months. We know that many of our users will benefit from having the text and apparatus next week, even if the morphology isn’t ready yet. Many Septuagint scholars have been waiting for the Logos edition of the text and the apparatus, and we didn’t want to wait until the morphology was complete to begin releasing what’s available now."

I don't know how much use this will be without the ability to do a morphological search. Since it will not differ greatly from the Rahlf's version with Logos morphology, I suppose it would be largely helpful to search the Logos LXX and link it with the Göttingen. I would rather, however, that they had waited until it was finished. Financially this is not a good time.

We're working on adding morphological tagging (and lemmas) even now (In case you're wondering, I've spent most of my time since returning from ETS/SBL on this). Things look quite promising; we may (stressing "may") be able to release an initial tagged version that would be 90-95% complete before the end of the year (2010) with the revised and completed morphological tagging following in the spring or summer. No promises, but there is hope.

Thanks for your patience while we work on it.

Mike Aubrey

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/195203#Comment_195203

How did you do a Rahlfs to Göttingen comparison? I assume Rahlfs-Hanhart to Göttingen would show fewer divergences.

Hanhard's revision was extremely minor and was limited primarily to the apparatus and not the text itself.

David Knoll

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/197348#Comment_197348

Am I the only person who was not aware that the Gottingen LXX is not a complete text of the LXX? My very first search for Hab. 2:4 revealed that only Hab. 3 is included for that book! I called Logos and the customer service person told me that the web site listed all the volumes included (which is true). However, at no point in the body of the main sales description is it made clear that the Gottingen is not a complete text of the LXX. The description repeats the word "LXX." Why would anyone think to check the details to see if "LXX" doesn't really mean "LXX"? I am so disappointed since I had been a happy but impatient Accordance user. When I saw that Logos had Gottingen, I purchased it for that reason only. Now I am quite dissatisfied.

BTW - I was also assured over the phone, before purchasing, that it was a tagged searchable text.

Habakkuk is included in the Doudecim Prophetae Volume. The separate resource is for an alternative text of Hab 3.

That being said Göttingen is not yet complete. The volumes of Joshua, Judges, Kingdoms, Chronicles, Canticles, Proverbs, Psalms of Solomon and 4 Maccabees have not been published yet. Also missing is the second volume of the introduction which will deal with the miniscules.

Mike Aubrey

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/197380#Comment_197380

The volumes of Joshua, Judges, Kingdoms, Chronicles, Canticles, Proverbs, Psalms of Solomon and 4 Maccabees have not been published yet. Also missing is the second volume of the introduction which will deal with the miniscules.

Also the volume on the Psalms is under revision. The original edition was published in the early 30s by Rahlfs before he even did his compact edition.

NetworkGeek

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/197383#Comment_197383

I knew about the lack of morph tagging from the blog, before it was released. I am curious, will we get updated books when they come available? I am thinking not, typically Logos sells those separately (which I understand in a way, the price may have been set for the number of books being sold not for the cost of the entire series). Anyone know?

Mike Aubrey

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/197412#Comment_197412

I knew about the lack of morph tagging from the blog, before it was released. I am curious, will we get updated books when they come available? I am thinking not, typically Logos sells those separately (which I understand in a way, the price may have been set for the number of books being sold not for the cost of the entire series). Anyone know?

Unlike the Logos LXX Interlinear, this is not a single resource or book where you've paid for the whole thing upfront and get updates as its completed. Its more like a commentary set that isn't yet complete. Just as you would need to purchase new volumes of a commentary set as they are completed, you would also need to purchase new volumes of the Gottingen LXX. Considering the size and scope of this project, there's no way to say when it will be complete. The volume on 4 Maccabees has been in progress for some time (the editor is a friend of mine) and he has no idea when he'll have the work completed.