Suggestion: I would like to see LDS resources in Logos
I'd be very interested in having some LDS resources in Logos:
The Book of Mormon
The Pearl of Great Price
The Doctrine and Coventants
Bonus: the Joseph Smith Translation of the Bible (such as it is) would also be welcome.
Robert Pavich
For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__
Comments
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I would not.
Jerry
Macbook Air (2024), Apple M2, 16gb Ram, Mac Sequoia, 1TB storage
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If Doctrine and Covenants were included, would you want a particular edition, or would you want to see all the changes made over the years. Mormons might not appreciate all the history.
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Its difficult for me to know how to react to posts like these:
One one hand my heart screams "NO..." but on the other hand see the need for materials if you are outreaching to LDS folk.
I think this will not be actioned upon by anyone until PBB for v4 goes live, then perhaps you will get your wish, as for me I would prefer not to see them as a Logos4 title as I would not like the possibility of someone weaker in the faith being introduced to potentially damaging teaching.
Never Deprive Anyone of Hope.. It Might Be ALL They Have
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Jerry,
Why not?
Jack,
I'll take what I can get BUT to have all of the changes in footnotes like the NET bible would be AMAZING!
Dom, yes...this is for reaching out to my LDS friends. I have more than a few LDS friends whom I love and we do talk about Christianity vs the LDS faith frequently...but it's hard to do all of my searches over the web though the LDS website has a search function. I'm not sure how having these materials is any different than having all of the apologetics resources that deal with Mormonism....
Robert Pavich
For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__
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There are 3 volumes on Mormonism in this set:
http://www.logos.com/product/8184/zondervan-world-religions-and-cults-collection
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I called logos years ago for the same thing. I was actually interested in the manuscripts..[:D] We can look at the Greek or the Hebrew of the bible translation. As far as the book of Mormon the gold plates are supposedly buried on a hill by smiths house, the pearl of great price and the d&c were translated from an Egyptian manuscript called the book of breathings (Egyptian funeral descriptions). I believe today the lds church has locked up the manuscripts,and are not allowing people who can translate Egyptian to translate them. Sound like a big conspiracy, but that what I understand has taken place. In short they stand to loose a great deal by producing their work in logos, at least as far as the manuscripts are concerned. For apologetic value it would be great to be able to search the lds books as we can the bible. I am in agreement, but I doubt the lds church will go for it, Logos has tried.
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Chris,
yes...I have some apologetic volumes but I'm interested in the Official Scripture's themselves.
Blair...that's too bad....we'll just have to have PBB's then....that's much better than nothing.
Robert Pavich
For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__
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Robert Pavich said:
I'd be very interested in having some LDS resources in Logos:
The Book of Mormon
The Pearl of Great Price
The Doctrine and Coventants
Bonus: the Joseph Smith Translation of the Bible (such as it is) would also be welcome.
[Y]
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Robert Pavich said:
Blair...that's too bad....we'll just have to have PBB's then....that's much better than nothing.
Ahh... Didn't even think about that... Great idea...T
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I would love to have LDS resources in my library. I would also love to have the JW's New World Translation. There are only two problems.
1. I would have them if they were free or came in a bundle of some kind. Probably wouldn't pay for them.
2. Outside of PBB, we'll never see them for the reasons mentioned above.
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Philip Spitzer said:
I would love to have LDS resources in my library. I would also love to have the JW's New World Translation. There are only two problems.
1. I would have them if they were free or came in a bundle of some kind. Probably wouldn't pay for them.
2. Outside of PBB, we'll never see them for the reasons mentioned above.
3 problems
Its almost impossible to find the text of the NWT and other literature in electronic format, I was told they wont release it to non JW's.., I tried a few years ago, when I was outreaching to a JW neighbor, found Kingdgom Hall to be long on promise and short on delivery, have been promised a copy of their resources twice on CD (yes electronoc verion does exist), but it has never happened
Never Deprive Anyone of Hope.. It Might Be ALL They Have
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DominicM said:
electronoc verion does exist
Just a reminder to everyone. Just because there are electronic versions of a resource that we would like in Logos does not imply that we can create a PBB from that resource.
This includes a resource that can be found in the public domain. This is because, while the source is in the public domain and it is not subject to copyright laws, the source that is in a particular (unique) format can be copyrighted, and typically it is copyrighted.
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I am not familiar with format copyright, could you please explain. As far as I knew, as long as it is in the public domain you can do whatever you like with it.
I use archive.org, and books.google
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Blair Laird said:
I am not familiar with format copyright, could you please explain. As far as I knew, as long as it is in the public domain you can do whatever you like with it.
First thing first, I am not an expert in legal things, but here is my understanding of U.S. Copyright laws.
Let us say that author ABC created this wonderful work of art back in the 1800's titled XYZ. Because this work of art is still in demand, company 123 takes ABC's work of art XYZ so that people can see ABC's XYZ in their software program 987.
While XYZ is still in public domain, XYZ in the 987 format is not in the public domain because company 123 had spent the time and energy ($$$) to make XYZ available in their software program 987.
There is almost always found in the fine-print that states that you cannot convert the program/data from one format to another. For an example, Logos has this in their EULA:
You may not...reverse engineer, disassemble, decompile or make any attempt to "unlock" or circumvent the digital copyright protection of the Content.
This includes the works of art that are in the public domain.
Another example is the CCEL (Christian Classics Ethereal Library). They state on their copyright page:
You may use the text version of any public domain book at the CCEL in any way you please, including republishing it. However, the XML and other versions derived from the XML (all non-text versions) are copyrighted. They may be used for non-profit personal, educational, and church purposes involving fewer than 25 copies of a book without further permission. However, you must contact us for permission to republish CCEL works or to use them commercially.
It is a violation of copyright to post any of the CCEL non-text versions of books on any type of Web site without a license agreement with CCEL
They give permission for people to use the text version of the documents found on their website, but people cannot use the XML formatted documents without their approval.
As it comes to be able to use Google books or archive.org? I do not know, and you should check their copyright page.
I hope this helps.
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Is this going anywhere? I would also like to see these resources available as perhaps a single package. I would also like if there was any way to get the teachings or writings from the mormon "prophets," as they are more indicative in most cases of what typical mormons actually believe than the official books and offer interesting insight into how certain passages are (mis)interpreted by my LDS friends.
Jeff.
Macbook Pro | OSX 10.6.8 | 2.3 GHz Intel Core i5 | 4 GB Ram | 320 GB HDD
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Halo Hound said:
Outside of PBB, we'll never see them for the reasons mentioned above.
Much of the LDS & JW material is still under copyright. Both groups have published digital resources on their own and I doubt they want it in Logos format.
The part that is public domain may be reproduced. The "format" copyright does not prevent Logos from also publishing the pd work in digital form. It just prevents Logos from converting the other person's work without their permission. Logos can procure their own copy of a book and scan it for themselves and the other guy can't stop production.
disclaimer: I am not a copyright lawyer, either. I could be wrong but I was wrong just three days ago., so I should be good for another week before I'm wrong again. [:D]
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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As the local resident heretic Christian (i.e. Mormon) and a Logos user since 2003, I'd say this thread has some inaccuracies and also threatens to violate the Forum guidelines.
Plus, some of us Evil Cultists™ can hear you, you know. [6]
Otherwise, carry on. [:D]
"The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected."- G.K. Chesterton
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[:)] I was wondering whether there were any Mormons on the list. Welcome to the list -- as a Mormon -- we already know that you've been here some time. You see, folks, I told you that Mormons didn't wear horns (except in emoticons). That's not to say I agree with them, but they're generally good people.Ben said:As the local resident heretic Christian (i.e. Mormon) and a Logos user since 2003, I'd say this thread has some inaccuracies and also threatens to violate the Forum guidelines.
Plus, some of us Evil Cultists™ can hear you, you know.
Otherwise, carry on.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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Friendly Ben probably has a more accurate answer, but as I understand it, the only thing that's not under copyright is the 1940 BOM edition.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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It's either the 1940 or the 1920 where the copyright picks up, can't recall which. I believe Grant Hardy's Reader's Edition of the Book of Mormon (UofIPress) is based off the 1920, which suggests to me it's the 1940.
For text-critical questions, Royal Skousen is publishing a painstakingly researched critical text in multiple volumes, several of which have already appeared. Some info here- http://maxwellinstitute.byu.edu/publications/jbms/?vol=11&num=2 and volumes here http://www.amazon.com/Royal-Skousen/e/B001JXJD9G/ref=ntt_athr_dp_pel_1
A preliminary edition of sorts was published by Yale recently, http://yalepress.yale.edu/book.asp?isbn=9780300142181
Most LDS aren't intimately aware of textual issues, in spite of much of the information being published by LDS-owned BYU, or printed in official LDS periodicals... but neither is it terribly shocking, considering the history of hand-copied manuscripts, publishing, etc.
"The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected."- G.K. Chesterton
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Ben said:
As the local resident heretic Christian (i.e. Mormon) and a Logos user since 2003, I'd say this thread has some inaccuracies and also threatens to violate the Forum guidelines.
Plus, some of us Evil Cultists™ can hear you, you know.
Otherwise, carry on.
I appreciate your cheerful attitude Ben. There really has not been much of substance in this thread to be inaccurate about, but I will take your word for it. (We did say we weren't copyright lawyers. And I assumed most were not JW or LDS.)
I do have lots of Mormon CDs (GospeLink, InfoBase, Journal of Discourses, Collectors Library, Standard Works) and some JW CDs (Watchtower magazine, various books.) So I know they are available. Some texts from the 1880s thru 1920s have also been digitized.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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On a positive note; I've started a Book of Mormon PBB [:D]
It's not difficult, just time consuming..,
Robert Pavich
For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__
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Robert Pavich said:
On a positive note; I've started a Book of Mormon PBB
It's not difficult, just time consuming..,
I'm sure the hardest part is transcribing from the golden tablets...
macOS, iOS & iPadOS |Logs| Install
Choose Truth Over Tribe | Become a Joyful Outsider!0 -
Robert Pavich said:
I'd be very interested in having some LDS resources in Logos:
Absolutely. New LDS meeting places are appearing all around the area where I live. Christians need information to answer the "missionaries" who are continually knocking on their doors. They are best taught from original sources, not from the enemies of Mormonism who frequently have the wrong information. If a believer is armed with such erroneous secondary resources, they fall easy prey to those who can easily refute their arguments.
DominicM said:I would prefer not to see them as a Logos4 title as I would not like the possibility of someone weaker in the faith being introduced to potentially damaging teaching.
If they are that easy to lead astray, then they will have no defense against the missionary who knocks at their door.
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Jack Caviness said:
If they are that easy to lead astray, then they will have no defense against the missionary who knocks at their door.
I would only add to this thought (because I'm reformed) that IF the God of the Universe saved them...then He is able to keep them...no available Logos resource can thwart His will...
I trust Him to keep His sheep intact to the end.Robert Pavich
For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__
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Matthew C Jones said:
I was wrong just three days ago., so I should be good for another week before I'm wrong again.
I have faith in you, Matthew. I believe you can be wrong more than once in a week [6] [:D]
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Jack Caviness said:
I have faith in you, Matthew. I believe you can be wrong more than once in a week
The reason I like this is that as long as Jack is shooting at you....then he's not shooting at me! [Y]
Robert Pavich
For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__
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[C]
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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Matthew C Jones said:
I maintain I was right in content, wrong in delivery.
I just made a general statement of my faith in your abilities. [:D]
Robert, I apologize for neglecting you. I will seek to correct that oversight in the future.
I still like your original suggestion. I would love to see LDS & JW materials in Logos. [Y]
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Matthew C Jones said:
just the poor choice of posting it. I maintain I was right in content, wrong in delivery.
Not to worry - I posted a bit behind you before my first cup of coffee was finished - everyone can tell you that is a bad idea. However, it was already quoted in full when I went to delete it. Now if I could remember the earliest Jewish source of the story that makes this point...
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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SuperTramp said:
When I first saw this avatar with O posts and a start, I thought our friend had found a way to hack the forum with starts. Then, I realized who it represented and my first thought was, "He shaved and Nina put him out of the house and now he is living under a bridge in Tulsa." [:D]
But, I can't say anything like that or Robert would rejoice and make some remark about Jack picking on Matthew. I don't pick on people; I just speak the truth in love. [8-|]
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Jack Caviness said:
I don't pick on people; I just speak the truth in love.
Amazing...you manage to insult me while at the same time sounding ultra holy by referencing a scripture passage....
you ARE the master! [;)]
Robert Pavich
For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__
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Robert Pavich said:
Amazing...you manage to insult me while at the same time sounding ultra holy by referencing a scripture passage....
Did you consider that he in-salted you rather than insulted you? Perhaps you need some salt. [:D]
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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Robert Pavich
For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__
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Robert Pavich said:
On a positive note; I've started a Book of Mormon PBB
It's not difficult, just time consuming..,
Hey would you be willing to share the .docx file for that resource when finished? I have been busy working on some arminian resources, and different confessions. I published the .docx files of the books I have finished on by website (www.divinesoteriology.com). I designed the site so I can easily share my finished .docx files.Others can upload their finished files, and share them also. I uploaded in .docx, that way it can be converted into almost any digital library system.
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No problem....but don't expect it too soon... [:D] it's slow going for me, I've messed it up a few times and had to restart.
Robert Pavich
For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__
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I know what you are saying, that particular resource is going to be a big task. I will be finishing the works of Menno Simmons hopefully soon.
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