Question on Greek Participle use

Jerry M

The word "come" or "coming" in Revelation 7:14 is a present participle which is translated differently in different versions.  My question is if there are resources (I have Platinum) that I can use to dig deeper into the two ways of looking at this participle or is it a matter of opinion?  Am I at a dead end? 

A. T. Robertson in Word Pictures in the N.T. says this...

 

They which come out of the great tribulation (οἱ ἐρχομενοι ἐκ της θλιψεως της μεγαλης [hoi erchomenoi ek tēs thlipseōs tēs megalēs]). Present middle participle with the idea of continued repetition. “The martyrs are still arriving from the scene of the great tribulation” (Charles). Apparently some great crisis is contemplated (Matt. 13:19ff.; 24:21; Mark 13:10), though the whole series may be in mind and so may anticipate final judgment. And they washed (και ἐπλυναν [kai eplunan]). First aorist active indicative of πλυνω [plunō], old verb, to wash, in N.T. only Luke 5:2; Rev. 7:14; 22:14. This change of construction after οἱ ἐρχομενοι [hoi erchomenoi] from οἱ πλυνησαντες [hoi plunēsantes] to και ἐπλυναν [kai eplunan] is common in the Apocalypse, one of Charles’s Hebraisms, like και ἐποιησεν [kai epoiēsen] in 1:6 and και πλανᾳ [kai planāi] in 2:20. 

David Aune in the Word Biblical Commentary says this...

In the phrase οἱ ἐρχόμενοι ἐκ τῆς θλίψεως τῆς μεγάλης, “those who have emerged from the great tribulation,” οἱ ἐρχόμενοι is translated in a past tense because it represents action simultaneous with the two main verbs ἔπλυναν, “washed,” and ἐλεύκαναν, “made white,” both of which are aorists (see Note 7:14.d-d. ; Beckwith, 545). It is therefore grammatically improbable to translate the present substantival participle οἱ ἐρχόμενοι as “those who are coming,” as if the scene in 7:9–17 were occurring precisely when it was narrated by the author, and to regard the martyrdom of Christians as a process that will not be completed as long as the eschatological consummation remains in the future (against Charles, 1:212–13; Rissi, Babylon, 18; cf. Ulfgard, Feast, 100–104). 

               I believe both these men are scholars in their own right, but wouldn't the elder have used something other than present tense if the act were to be considered completed?   Does anyone have a suggestion about how I can take this further or have insight on Greek usage apart from what I see here to decide this question?

 

George Somsel

Jerry M said:

The word "come" or "coming" in Revelation 7:14 is a present participle which is translated differently in different versions.  My question is if there are resources (I have Platinum) that I can use to dig deeper into the two ways of looking at this participle or is it a matter of opinion?  Am I at a dead end? 

A. T. Robertson in Word Pictures in the N.T. says this...

 

They which come out of the great tribulation (οἱ ἐρχομενοι ἐκ της θλιψεως της μεγαλης [hoi erchomenoi ek tēs thlipseōs tēs megalēs]). Present middle participle with the idea of continued repetition. “The martyrs are still arriving from the scene of the great tribulation” (Charles). Apparently some great crisis is contemplated (Matt. 13:19ff.; 24:21; Mark 13:10), though the whole series may be in mind and so may anticipate final judgment. And they washed (και ἐπλυναν [kai eplunan]). First aorist active indicative of πλυνω [plunō], old verb, to wash, in N.T. only Luke 5:2; Rev. 7:14; 22:14. This change of construction after οἱ ἐρχομενοι [hoi erchomenoi] from οἱ πλυνησαντες [hoi plunēsantes] to και ἐπλυναν [kai eplunan] is common in the Apocalypse, one of Charles’s Hebraisms, like και ἐποιησεν [kai epoiēsen] in 1:6 and και πλανᾳ [kai planāi] in 2:20. 

David Aune in the Word Biblical Commentary says this... In the phrase οἱ ἐρχόμενοι ἐκ τῆς θλίψεως τῆς μεγάλης, “those who have emerged from the great tribulation,” οἱ ἐρχόμενοι is translated in a past tense because it represents action simultaneous with the two main verbs ἔπλυναν, “washed,” and ἐλεύκαναν, “made white,” both of which are aorists (see Note 7:14.d-d. ; Beckwith, 545). It is therefore grammatically improbable to translate the present substantival participle οἱ ἐρχόμενοι as “those who are coming,” as if the scene in 7:9–17 were occurring precisely when it was narrated by the author, and to regard the martyrdom of Christians as a process that will not be completed as long as the eschatological consummation remains in the future (against Charles, 1:212–13; Rissi, Babylon, 18; cf. Ulfgard, Feast, 100–104).                 I believe both these men are scholars in their own right, but wouldn't the elder have used something other than present tense if the act were to be considered completed?   Does anyone have a suggestion about how I can take this further or have insight on Greek usage apart from what I see here to decide this question?

 

You must remember that tense is relative.  A present participle indicates something simultaneous with the main verb.  See Burton, Syntax and Moods of the Tenses in New Testament Greek, § 119.

Gary C

Jerry,

What you also are may be over looking is that the Participle is a verbal adjective.  Here it is serving as the plural nominative subject for the clause.  The more reliable translations will say something along the lines of "the ones who came, (or come) out of the great tribulation"  The depending on other verbs in the sentence.  The World Bible Commentary is very reliable in this case. It will be more of a past action due to the aorist verbs.    Verbal Aspect comes from the main verbs, not from an adjectival participle, like the one in this verse.

 

Grace

Gary