Catholic Users
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Super Tramp said:
He told me to pray for your mother
Did he tell you my mother's name? Or was that Babaji talking?
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Peter Cellini said:Jeremy Kritt said:
However, you are violating the forum guidelines.
The problem here is discrimination...
Peter, now that's just silly. Did you read the OP? The user simply asked for other Catholics to respond with what they thought of the (then) available Catholic resources (perhaps as a means of discussing purchase choices, or simply out of enthusiasm for the availability of such resources becoming available). You would certainly be allowed to ask other born-again believers what they thought of the currently available born-again resources available in Logos, or any other specific title or group of titles. There is no discrimination at all... but I suspect you probably know that. If your understanding of upholding truth leads you to violate forum rules, then at least do this: share the reasons for the hope that is within you with gentleness and respect (as the Scriptures and our Lord, both of which I will trust that you love sincerely, enjoin upon us)... and thereby gain a greater hearing for the truth you desire to proclaim. That is the best way to honor Him.
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Peter Cellini,
It, is my understanding that Logos is a corporate identity that markets software. Logos, is not a church, a mission society, nor a denominational organization.
חַפְּשׂוּ בַּתּוֹרָה הֵיטֵב וְאַל תִּסְתַּמְּכוּ עַל דְּבָרַי
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BKMitchell said:
is my understanding
Logos has a cross as a logo and therefore holds themselves out as a "christian" organization. As a Christian organization, their main focus (before profit) should be to uphold the truth of the Gospel, and the Person of Jesus Christ. If they are not such, why should they care if we debate theology? They are just book sellers.
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EmileB said:
The user simply asked for other Catholics to respond with what they thought of the (then) available Catholic resources (perhaps as a means of discussing purchase choices, or simply out of enthusiasm for the availability of such resources becoming available).
Jeremy, I did the same thing, but replaced the words "Catholic" with "Reformed but not liberal PCUSA, CRC, Reformed Baptists, etc." and my thread got deleted...
You see the problem is everyone knows catholic, mormon, JW, etc.) But when you say reformed you need to be very specific (because many think they are, but are not). I did this and got deleted.
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Peter Cellini said:
Logos has a cross as a logo and therefore holds themselves out as a "christian" organization.
The cross is a central theme to the Bible and relative to Bible study. Logos is about Bible study. Your way of identifying Christians is very unreliable. Many Gothic & Heavy Metal bands wear a cross and mock God with their lyrics. Madonna (the singer) is just one of many celebrities who will pose for nude photo shoots wearing nothing but a cross around their necks.
The Biblical litmus test for a true disciple is given in John 13:35 . Notice it does not say they will have short hair, a cross or fishy sign, a license to preach or the frock of Calvin. They aren't known for how bad the room stinks when they enter. While we were yet sinners.... If Jesus were a missionary in the fashion of the haters posting, He would have tossed the Samaritan woman down the well.
Peter Cellini said:If they are not such, why should they care if we debate theology?
Even God recognizes the rights of devil worshippers to not be harrassed with theological debate on their doorstep. Matthew 10:14
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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Duty Calls.
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[Y] [H]Greg Masone said:Duty Calls.
I'm retiring early. [|-)] The pain meds aren't working. [:'(]
I have to roll my wheelchair to church without the 22 Sunday School buses running over me. [:S]
I'm blessed to live "in the shadow of the temple," [8] about 9 houses away.
[A] praying for sunshine tomorrow. [st][um][li]
Good night Peter. I'll pray for you. Please pray for me.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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This is a very odd interpretation of my words. I really don't even think that I have to launch into a long defense because it is all open source. For people who know me, they will know that your claims are ridiculous. For the people who don't know me, they just need to scroll up to see that I started this thread with this post:Peter Cellini said:Jeremy Kritt said:However, you are violating the forum guidelines.
Why aren't you violating the forums by creating a separatist thread only for catholics (i.e. "Catholic Users"?)
The problem here is discrimination...papists are allowed to say whatever they want and start whatever threads they want and seperate themselves as catholics.
However, when a born-again person starts a thread to say they only want the opinion of other born-again (Reformed) people or they post truths about church history (i.e. Pope as anti-christ), the papists and moderators scream and delete threads.
Logos may want to consider changing its name from "Logos" to " Imprimatur"
I was just wondering if there are any other Catholic users of Logos in these forums. What do you think of the Catholic resources?
Some of the theological resources are dated, but nevertheless useful if you studied theology (like myself). They have some good offerings. I hope they will increase their Catholic titles. The scripture study resources for work in the original languages are excellent.
For my protestant brethren, please don't engage me in theological and biblical debates. I am just interested in an answer to my question.
Pax!
However, I would like to respond to a few things your wrote.
It is really difficult for me to understand how this can be interpreted as being discriminatory or separatist. I was very specific by writing that I did not want to start a theological debate. Logos is a great product for scholarly research of biblical texts. People are using this product in many ways, and those people come from many different backgrounds that have different needs. I think the reason why my thread is not deleted is due to the fact that I am talking about Logos software, not theology. I am talking about their products in relationship to a particular market and audience. You, my friend, have taken this thread into a completely other area -- an unproductive one I might add.
Everybody is entitled to their opinion. At least that is the case in this great country we call The United States of America. Since we are a capitalist country, you are free to form your own company that offers a product that competes with Logos. Your company would not have to offer any titles that would be of interest to Catholics besides the bible. You are also free to not use Logos software or purchase any of their products if you disagree with the company's business decisions. So what is the problem?
I think your posts do not further any discussion. Perhaps a better direction would be to tell everyone why Logos should not offer titles from the Catholic tradition. For example, how are you worse off by Logos offering the writings of St. Benedict of Nursia? In what ways are you disadvantaged by Logos offering the decrees of the Second Vatican Council? How is Logos' offering of St. Thomas Aquinas' commentary on Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John making your life difficult? Nobody at Logos is forcing people to buy these products. Why does it matter to you?
I am not sure why you feel the need to hijack this thread with such hostile anti-Catholic sentiment. I think that my post was well within the bounds of acceptability in these forums.
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Jeremy Kritt said:
I was just wondering if there are any other Catholic users of Logos in these forums. What do you think of the Catholic resources?
Jeremy,
You will find that many Catholic resources are not labeled as Catholic. And to my surprise, some took exception with my reference to a book by a Dominican priest as Catholic. You can find an incomplete list of Catholic authors included in Logos at http://logos4catholics.org/index.php?topic=31.0 ... It was reasonably complete when it was first compiled but has not been updated recently.
I keep perspective (to what ever extent I succeed) by remembering an incident in which a co-worker of my son said in exasperation "Oh, to be beaten by a cold whip of logic" and remembering that my own actions are the only ones I can control. To ask "why" of others' behavior requires they share their emotions, history and motivations ... we can observe fear, pain, anger, bigotry, hate and perhaps sympathize a bit - but the "why" requires a social encounter that rarely occurs on an electronic forum.
MJ
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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MJ. Smith said:
You can find an incomplete list of Catholic authors included in Logos at http://logos4catholics.org/index.php?topic=31.0 ... It was reasonably complete when it was first compiled but has not been updated recently.
To add to that: I've tried to compile a list of 'Catholic-interest' titles on Vyrso, and MJ has added some reviews. That thread can be found at http://logos4catholics.org/index.php?topic=968.0
Mac Pro (late 2013) OS 12.6.2
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Jeremy Kritt said:
I think the reason why my thread is not deleted is due to the fact that I am talking about Logos software, not theology.
A person just posed a thread yesterday about gluttony being a sin. That is theology and it was not deleted. I'm going to try another thread and we will see what happens.
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MJ. Smith said:
To ask "why" of others' behavior requires they share their emotions, history and motivations ... we can observe fear, pain, anger, bigotry, hate and perhaps sympathize a bit - but the "why" requires a social encounter that rarely occurs on an electronic forum.
MJ
Spot on.
I like Apples. Especially Honeycrisp.
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Great! [I] Why don't you leave this one?Peter Cellini said:Jeremy Kritt said:I think the reason why my thread is not deleted is due to the fact that I am talking about Logos software, not theology.
A person just posed a thread yesterday about gluttony being a sin. That is theology and it was not deleted. I'm going to try another thread and we will see what happens.
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MJ. Smith said:
to my surprise, some took exception with my reference to a book by a Dominican priest as Catholic.
Maybe it's just me missing some subtleties in the remarks of others (after all, English is not my native language), however, if you are referring to this thread http://community.logos.com/forums/p/42330/315302.aspx the discussion was about whether the resource betrays any Roman Catholic bias - I don't recall anyone taking exception. Actually, in my opinion for a Greek lexicon to heavily promote a sectarian bias of any sort wouldn't be a good thing, regardless of whether it was RCC, EO, Reformed, Lutheran or whatever. This is different to a systematic theology or a commentary.
The thread posters rather unanimously concluded that this work is a very fine resource and one doesn't need to disregard it just for the fact that it was written by a Dominican. If something in this thread came accross as anti-catholic for you, I'm rather sure it wasn't meant this way - if it was from me, I beg your pardon.
Have joy in the Lord!
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NewbieMick said:
discussion was about whether the resource betrays any Roman Catholic bias
Your description is accurate - after all not everything Catholic "betrays any Roman Catholic bias". On the other hand, the references to Medieval materials, for example, make it clear that the author writes from a Catholic perspective. It seemed to me that there was an undercurrent of "if I find it useful it isn't Catholic; if I disagree it's Catholic." My definition is closer to "if reading it, I can see that the author is Catholic, the source is Catholic." I'll admit that this definition often accidentally includes Lutheran or Orthodox (and occasionally Anglican) but I eventually sort them out into my "catholic" category.[;)]
NewbieMick said:If something in this thread came accross as anti-catholic for you
No, nothing came across as anti-catholic in any offensive sense. But I was genuinely surprised at the response.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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NewbieMick said:
If something in this thread came accross as anti-catholic for you, I'm rather sure it wasn't meant this way - if it was from me, I beg your pardon.
NewbieMick, why are you apologizing for possibly being anti-catholic. All Christians should be anti-catholic. Are you afraid of offending the "queen of the forum"?
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Peter Cellini said:NewbieMick said:
If something in this thread came accross as anti-catholic for you, I'm rather sure it wasn't meant this way - if it was from me, I beg your pardon.
NewbieMick, why are you apologizing for possibly being anti-catholic. All Christians should be anti-catholic.
I do not wish to debate this with you. But for those reading the forum I want to state as much: I strongly disagree with your notion. Actually, in my opinion it even is impossible to conform with, as "all Christians" make up the body of Christ a.k.a. the Church and this church is one, holy, apostolic and catholic (with a small c).
Moreover, I have all reason to believe that over the course of time, millions and millions of Roman Catholic Christians have been part of Christ's Body across the world, and are now. I may disagree with them over some finer parts of doctrine - so be it. I may disagree with other Christians as well. The only way to deal with this is to treat each other in respect and brotherly love. It helps a lot to understand the different positions in light of where they come from and how they evolved over time. It helps as well to understand the exegetical foundations behind the doctrines in dispute. After all, if we could settle any differences at all it would be with recourse to God's Word. Thus, Roman Catholic Christians that come here and want to use Logos software for bible study are very welcome to me.
Have joy in the Lord!
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Slightly off topic here, but I would like to see a Lutheran Scholar's Library, in similar fashion to the Catholics.
For example, many of the resources of Northwestern Publishing House and Concordia Publishing House could be included in the package base price. Of course, there are plenty of supporting resources like BDAG/HALOT, which could be included, in addition to dictionaries, commentaries, lexicons, and so much more.
LOGOS, please consider.
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Dan Sheppard said:
I would like to see a Lutheran Scholar's Library, in similar fashion to the Catholics.
I'd support that as well - although my paper library leans more towards Fortress and Augsburg
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Peter Cellini said:
Logos has a cross as a logo and therefore holds themselves out as a "christian" organization... If they are not such, why should they care if we debate theology? They are just book sellers.
Answer One: I, must admit that you have a point since Logos4 was released the cross in a magnifying glass has been adopted as their logo and it is true that vast majority of resources that Logos publishes are from broad spectrum of Christendom (they also publish works from an Academic Jewish point of view).
Answer Two: The reason why Logos might care about occurrence of controversy on the forums is precisely because they are a business and as such they mustn't offend their customers whom come from a variety of backgrounds both with in and outside of Christendom.
Answer three: Until, presented with evidence to the contrary I am going to still believe that Logos is
BKMitchell said:a corporate identity that
markets software. Logos, is not a church, a mission society, nor a
denominational organization.חַפְּשׂוּ בַּתּוֹרָה הֵיטֵב וְאַל תִּסְתַּמְּכוּ עַל דְּבָרַי
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George Somsel...
You have wanted to know what I mean by "born again" so here goes...
Scripture
says that
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we are to be born, not of blood, nor of
the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.Therefore, to be born again, means that individuals must
be made alive spiritually by an external source. Since we did not give
ourselves natural birth, we cannot give ourselves spiritual birth. The
words assume that men are spiritually dead (not just wounded as the
semi-pelagians say i.e. baptists, catholics, etc.) God must do a
supernatural work in individual men who are dead in sin that can't do
anything for themselves. God alone does a work of spiritual regeneration through the
Holy Spirit for His people. All of the illustrations the bible uses for
example, when Jesus raises Lazarus from the dead and raises the Widow's
son from the dead, and God's Word raises the dried bones in the desert
(Ezekiel) from the dead. These all point to the need of a new and
spiritual birth. Of course there is nothing a person can do to earn
it. There is no good work or sacrament that can buy it or add to
it (ala Rome). No church that can give it. It is the
atoning work of Christ that the Father applies to His elect people
through the Holy Spirit. (see Ephesians 1).
This election makes those who where once orphans, now children of God.
God adopts them, grows them, protects them, preserves them and brings
them to Glory, despite their foolishness.This is the Gospel. This is the beauty of the work of
Christ that I will fight for. If I ruffle some feathers along the way,
my intent is not to hurt, but to show people this wonderful Gospel that
is hidden by rome and the likes.0 -
Peter Cellini said:
The words assume that men are spiritually dead (not just wounded as the semi-pelagians say i.e. baptists
Peter, please do not lump every baptist into this categoy. Some are, but many are not semi pelagians.
Peter Cellini said:There is no good work or sacrament that can buy it or add to it (ala Rome).
Peter, why did you chose the Catholic users thread to discuss reformed teology?
Why not go to many of the sites on yahoo, etc to present your views insead of baiting my fellow forum users into also dialog with you?
Peter Cellini said:If I ruffle some feathers along the way, my intent is not to hurt, but to show people this wonderful Gospel that is hidden by rome and the likes.
Peter you know and freely choose to ignor the forum guide lines.
The forum is to help all of us to be better users of the software.
Not to engage in baiting people into theological discussiones.
Peter Cellini said:my intent is not to hurt, but to show people this wonderful Gospel that is hidden by rome and the likes.
Reading your post (as you said in you post), it is God alone who does the work of salvacion.
Please allow God to be God and let the study of his word (by all of us) be a means of grace to all of his elect.
.
http://hombrereformado.blogspot.com/ Solo a Dios la Gloria Apoyo
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Tom Rach said:
Peter, why did you chose the Catholic users thread to discuss reformed teology?
I was responding to a longstanding question from George Somsel, on a thread that was deleted, and I thought I would find him on this thread...
Tom Rach said:Please allow God to be God and let the study of his word (by all of us) be a means of grace to all of his elect.
2 Timothy 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.0 -
Tom Rach said:
Peter, please do not lump every baptist into this categoy.
Thank you Tom for a kind and respectful post to Peter.
Without arguing theology I will only ask Peter to act in accordance with his own stated beliefs. Peter, please consider these questions before engaging others:
- Since God alone initiated and completed my salvation do I have standing to be prideful?
- Since God alone can save should I believe I can effect someone's salvation by my persuasive words or debate?
- Since others are spiritually dead should I condemn them for not choosing God when they are wholly unable to do so?
- Is it possible someone I hurt today will be next to me in Heaven because Jesus bought their salvation too?
- Do I please God by loving my enemies?
That is all I am asking for. Each of us need to put into practice what we really believe God requires of us. That precious Bible God gave us is powerful enough to accomplish His will. Let us encourage everyone we meet to just read it. God will do the rest.
ps: Peter, I apologize if I got your theological framework wrong. Mine differs ever so slightly from yours. I do not ask you to change yours, just practice them. [;)]
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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Dan Sheppard said:
Slightly off topic here, but I would like to see a Lutheran Scholar's Library, in similar fashion to the Catholics.
Dan, I am sure you are aware of the great relationship Fortress Press has had with Logos for a long time. There are many Lutheran based collections already published in Logos and more on the way. I have been buying many of them. I have even come to appreciate the collections that deal with rather liberal themes and authors. For theology students, you can't find a wider variety of views and thoughts presented. Since I have been buying Fortress Press resources in Logos my view of Lutherans has changed from the gentle, quiet folk Garrison Keillor describes to a wonderfully varied group of deep theological thinkers.
Just run a search for Fortress Press and see how much is there. (You probably already have.)
Hint: the Fortress Press Paul Collection is a great place to start.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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Peace and Every Blessing, Matthew! May God give you and your family good Health and much Happiness for the New Year! *smile*Super Tramp said:I have been buying many of them. I have even come to appreciate the collections that deal with rather liberal themes and authors. For theology students, you can't find a wider variety of views and thoughts presented. Since I have been buying Fortress Press resources in Logos my view of Lutherans has changed from the gentle, quiet folk Garrison Keillor describes to a wonderfully varied group of deep theological thinkers.
Just run a search for Fortress Press and see how much is there. (You probably already have.)
And, I guess you found, dear friend, that when you searched for Northwestern Publishing House and Concordia Publishing House offerings that their many works would be quite less liberal than those of Augsburg Fortress -- for example, Concordia's Lutheran Study Bible would be the classic example.
John 6:20
Edit: I wrote this post solely to ensure that the large numbers of forum users who are not familiar with the Lutherans would be made aware or more aware that there are some very considerable differences among Lutherans.
Philippians 4: 4 Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, Rejoice. 5 Let your reasonableness be known to everyone. The Lord is at hand..........
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Milford Charles Murray said:
Northwestern Publishing House and Concordia Publishing House
Oh yes, Milford, I did not mean to exclude them. One of my big interests in having Logos is reading theological views that I am not familiar with. So when I talk of something new I have discovered, it is usually the ideas that are farther removed from what I am familiar with. One of the resources I have in my wishlist is The People's Bible: Complete Set
Please tell me what benefit I would get if i purchased The Northwestern Publishing House Electronic Library: Collection One (100 vols.) as i am not convinced the balance of content would be quite as interesting as the People's Bible.
Milford Charles Murray said:Edit: I wrote this post solely to ensure that the large numbers of forum users who are not familiar with the Lutherans would be made aware or more aware that there are some very considerable differences among Lutherans.
Thanks, You made me more aware. I frequently do the same about Baptists. There are all kinds. [C]
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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Matthew, that's one series I haven't been able to afford yet. Also, so many other things took priority for me, some just a wee bit ahead of those 100 vols.
I have almost 5500 resources and a lot of stuff dedicated to Hebrew and Greek Language Study plus just about every one of the various commentary series except for ICC plus a lot of the so-called scholarly stuff including Sheffield and T&T! *smile* So, honestly, I don't really have a suggestion for those 100 vols. for you one way or another. For me it will probably be a little ways down the road. Sorry I couldn't help you any better!
*smile* Philippians 2:14 Philippians 2:15 Philippians 2:16
Brief edit: I do have almost everything that Concordia Publishing House has available with the exception of a few commentaries that I haven't been able to budget for.
Philippians 4: 4 Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, Rejoice. 5 Let your reasonableness be known to everyone. The Lord is at hand..........
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Super Tramp said:
Please tell me what benefit I would get if i purchased The Northwestern Publishing House Electronic Library: Collection One (100 vols.)
I can say that your getting in the Peoples bible.....a commentary written by a trained theologian written for the common person sitting in the pew....The big other collection....Quarterlies......is a journal written for trained theologians. if you dont already have either the ppl's bible or quarterlies...they are really good.
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William Bingham said:
if you dont already have either the ppl's bible or quarterlies...they are really good.
If the good people of this thread will pardon just one last off-topic question: I would like to request any representative sample from the Quarterlies. Nothing super long, just a sample. I do not have anything other than a few of the Sermon Studies I got in 2010 Master Collection. (The lectionary is surprisingly easy to follow.)
I think the price of the 100 volume collection has jumped $50... [:(] Well, thanks in advance to anyone who can post a clip.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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The 19th is around the corner and we'll get JP2's and B16's encyclicals! Order before the price goes up: http://goo.gl/Z7viH
- Michael
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Ack.... Wrong resource. I mean the B16 collection... that comes out on the 19th.
- Michael
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