Denominations
Comments
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"A key thing in amongst this is ignorance, I never ceased to be amazed at
the number of people who perpetuate a false view of the Catholics and
others based on third and fourth hand, unsubstantiated information."Indeed. Krister Stendahl, Luthern Bishop of Stocholm as well as Dean of the Harvard Divinity School before he passed away recently, formulated 3 rules of inter-religious dialogue and study, something like this.
(1) When you are trying to understand another religion, you should ask the adherents of that religion for their understanding of it, not its enemies (i.e. don't dictate to people what they believe based on 3rd hand hostile sources.)
(2) Don't compare your best to their worst (i.e. Mother Teresa to AlQaida is not a fair comparison between Christianity and Islam)
(3) Leave room for "holy envy." (By this Stendahl meant that you
should be willing to recognize elements in the other religious tradition
or faith that you admire and wish could, in some way, be reflected in
your own religious tradition or faith.)"The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected."- G.K. Chesterton
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tom collinge said:
I do not know the liturgy that the WELS uses, but I am going to take a SWAG and say that it is the same as ELCA and LCMS. The ELCA and LCMS basically have the same service (including the liturgy).
Thanks Tom.
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Scott S said:
Did the survey indicate which Lutheran Synod -- ELCA, LCMS, or WELS?
I don't think it did
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Ben said:
(2) Don't compare your best to their worst (i.e. Mother Teresa to AlQaida is not a fair comparison between Christianity and Islam)
A good set of principles. Although the example for #2 doesn't work because it suggests that Al-Qaida types don't have Islamic theology right. Scholars argue they do.
Osama bin Laden is a better exegete of Qur'anic war verses than the moderate scholars. The reason that most Muslims don't want to be involved with terrorism is that they just want to do well in life and raise a family, so they ignore the war verses and focus on the teachings of tolerance, so they can pursue their own life interests. -- This according to a missionary of twenty years in an Islamic country, who completed the work for a PhD in theology at an Islamic University. (And instructor for TEDS course in 2008: Islam and Christianity.)
There is confusion about which teachings to follow because of the Islamic law of Abrogation, where verses are revealed to cancel instructions in other verses given just a few years earlier. This provision is specifically provided for by a number of verses in the Qur'an itself, for example: Baqara 2:106.....If we abrogate any verse or cause it to be forgotten, We replace it by a better or a similar one.
According to Professor Samir Khalil Samir, S.J., the problem is that there is no consensus about which verses abrogate others. This leads to two legitimate ways to read the Qur'an. When Islamic terrorists kill woman and children in the name of Islam, there is no basis to tell them they are not authentic Muslims, only "Your reading of Islam is not ours." Samir Khalil Samir, S.J., "111 Questions on Islam", pages 62-71.
http://www.ignatius.com/Products/OHQI-P/111-questions-on-islam.aspx
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CEDRAC
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Scott S said:
A good set of principles. Although the example for #2 doesn't work because it suggests that Al-Qaida types don't have Islamic theology right. Scholars argue they do.
Osama bin Laden is a better exegete of Qur'anic war verses than the moderate scholars. The reason that most Muslims don't want to be involved with terrorism is that they just want to do well in life and raise a family, so they ignore the war verses and focus on the teachings of tolerance, so they can pursue their own life interests. -- This according to a missionary of twenty years in an Islamic country, who completed the work for a PhD in theology at an Islamic University. (And instructor for TEDS course in 2008: Islam and Christianity.)
There is confusion about which teachings to follow because of the Islamic law of Abrogation, where verses are revealed to cancel instructions in other verses given just a few years earlier. This provision is specifically provided for by a number of verses in the Qur'an itself, for example: Baqara 2:106.....If we abrogate any verse or cause it to be forgotten, We replace it by a better or a similar one.
According to Professor Samir Khalil Samir, S.J., the problem is that there is no consensus about which verses abrogate others. This leads to two legitimate ways to read the Qur'an. When Islamic terrorists kill woman and children in the name of Islam, there is no basis to tell them they are not authentic Muslims, only "Your reading of Islam is not ours." Samir Khalil Samir, S.J., "111 Questions on Islam", pages 62-71.
Scott, I think this post gets very close (if not stepping over) the forum guidelines.
I believe what you said here can be said about Christianity (hence why we have so many denominations) or any other faith. Islam does not have the corner market about having more than one understanding of sacred text.
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Scott S said:
Qur'anic war verses than the moderate scholars.
I don't believe that one can consider the war verses outside the context of the People of the Book verses. I don't see the theological issues that Islam deals with as the much different than dealing with Psalm 137:8-9 ... which somehow when I pray the Psalms I find a bit uncomfortable.
I concur with Tom that we are skirting far too close to the appropriate boundaries for the forum.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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I know this is now past Christmas but a great resource is the Handbook of Denominations in the United States. Currently this is not in Logos format, but can be purchased as a (gasp) book at Amazon.com (http://www.amazon.com/Handbook-Denominations-United-States-12th/dp/0687057841/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1293519972&sr=1-1) for only $12.99. May the Lord bless your search for a church to grow and mature in.
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For me the answer is where Jesus Christ is worshiped in Spirit and truth.Jeusus's central masssage was the Kingdom of God,I believe in this packet, I renounce any split of this packet,what ever it is ,I hate extremity.Some go to the healing extreme,some to prosperity,some to family and so on.These are blessings ,which come as a result of putting one's faith on the blesser.The Word of God tells us first to seek the Kingdom of God and His righteousness,all others are going to be added as the Lord wills.So my priority is as I have said it.I believe on all of the blessings,but more I believe the balance massage , and the Packet The Kingdom of God preached uncompromisable. If it is not clear I am ready to make it clear by the grace of God.
Blessings in Christ.
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Tes, I agree with you about extremity and I always appreciate your testimony.
To those who promised to pray for me in this, thank you! I have found a church (less that three miles from my house!) where I already feel at home, with a pastor who seems to hold to the Word of God in his counseling and in expository preaching. I've had tea with one of the members, attended a weekly prayer meeting and have a calendar full of chances to grow and to share my abilities with others. I really appreciate anyone here who bowed a head or a knee to petition for my welfare. I know it won't go unrewarded.
K
"But you, be sober in all things, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry." 2 Timothy 4:5 (NASB)
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Kaye Anderson said:
Tes, I agree with you about extremity and I always appreciate your testimony.
To those who promised to pray for me in this, thank you! I have found a church (less that three miles from my house!) where I already feel at home, with a pastor who seems to hold to the Word of God in his counseling and in expository preaching. I've had tea with one of the members, attended a weekly prayer meeting and have a calendar full of chances to grow and to share my abilities with others. I really appreciate anyone here who bowed a head or a knee to petition for my welfare. I know it won't go unrewarded.
K
HI, Kaye, Praise the Lord , I am glad,that you have found a place ,where you have freedom to worship the Lord with brothers and sisters in the Lord.I really appreciate what you have mentioned,"with a pastor who seems to hold to the Word of God in his counseling and in expository preaching. "it is not only preaching in a pulpit, but the preacher is a pulpit himself as he lives according to the Word of God.preaching in life is hard ,yes we are not perfect,but people must see Jesus displayed in our life and all our activities ,.A preacher is a preacher who preaches not only in pulpit, but he must be willing as well to preach in his life and show those to whom he preaches that it is possible to live according what he has preached. Dear Kaye Praise the Lord ,Luke 19:5 reminds me that the Lord looks in to the heart and shows the right way.Thanks to the Lord who led you the right way through His Spirit .This is precious present for all of us.
Blessings in Christ.
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Check out the Logos resource Yeshua: A Guide to the Real Jesus and the Original Church. Because most of us have grown up with a Western mentality, much of Scripture seems obscured. Since the Covenant was broken, the result is that we are broken [into multitudes of fragments]. I urge all of us to check carefully Scripture with Scripture. The original "church" was in the wilderness, called out of Egypt. Yahshua our Messiah restored that broken covenant through His Blood, not by works or by genealogy, but by faith in Him. Many "denominations" are not built on The Foundation of Scripture, but upon a personality that use a group of favorite verses. Trying to understand "the church" by studying The Early Church Fathers leaves you very frustrated because they came later and are often very anti-Semitic. Feel free to email me for clarification. shofarout at gmail dot com.
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