Sharing resources of LOGos 4 with Kindle
Comments
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Robert Pavich said:
this just isn't working for me...I've tried the "name@free.kindle.com email and nothing happens...do I do something else on my kindle to receive the docs?
Check to make certain that your Kindle address is correct. You don't need the "free" part of the address if you're only using a wifi Kindle (which is what I have). Also, make certain that in your Kindle management settings on Amazon's website, you've authorized the email address from which you're SENDING from. If that's not correct, Amazon will reject the email.
Finally, I've had more success with .doc than .docx, so I always send using the former.
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R. Mansfield said:
Tom, I doubt it's so clear cut. Your last sentence is an interpretation of the EULA.
The definition of "archive" is synonymous with 'backup" pretty much....
Archive:verb: to place or store in an archive:To stretch it to mean:"To change format to read on another alternate device" is not even close.Robert Pavich
For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__
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Robert Pavich said:R. Mansfield said:
Tom, I doubt it's so clear cut. Your last sentence is an interpretation of the EULA.
The definition of "archive" is synonymous with 'backup" pretty much....
Archive:
verb: to place or store in an archive:
To stretch it to mean:
"To change format to read on another alternate device" is not even close.Again, interpretation. If I archive a television show and watch it exclusively from my homemade DVD anytime I want, I'm not doing anything illegal. So says US law.
Would it also be illegal or wrong to print out an article from one of the TLJ journals in Logos and carry that with me for reading later? Or file it away in my filing cabinet for later reading? Of course not. In fact, I've got a filing cabinet full of articles photocopied from physical journals (again, changing the format). Do I have to run back to the original in the library when I want to read them? No, I read the copy I've made. In fact, I'm slowly working my way through them, scanning them one by one, to keep them on my computer instead of taking up physical space. This is changing the format a third time! Again, falls under fair use.
My main point is that occasional converting and reading these texts privately on a device like the Kindle falls within US copyright fair use laws. I'm not doing anything wrong and I have a clear conscience. I even slept quite well last night! [:)]
If you are troubled by it personally, then don't do it.
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Robert Pavich said:R. Mansfield said:
Tom, I doubt it's so clear cut. Your last sentence is an interpretation of the EULA.
The definition of "archive" is synonymous with 'backup" pretty much....
Archive:
verb: to place or store in an archive:
To stretch it to mean:
"To change format to read on another alternate device" is not even close.One more minor point in regard to definitions. The definition of archive above is not really satisfactory since it uses the word in the definition itself.
Look at this definition from the New Oxford American Dictionary (the default dictionary on the Mac):
Going by principle here, if the Logos collection on my computer is the main source of access to a title, the Kindle would act as the "less frequently used storage medium." There's nothing to assume that the file couldn't be accessed in this state.
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R. Mansfield said:
Again, interpretation. If I archive a television show and watch it exclusively from my homemade DVD anytime I want, I'm not doing anything illegal. So says US law.
Where in the definition of Archive does it say "transfer to another medium and use it on another device?
Rolled up in the definition of archive is the idea of "storing something away"....not changing formats to use in another way...
Robert Pavich
For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__
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the word "storage" keeps popping up here but not the phrase "transfer to another device to use in another format"....
Storage, I understand...its' the other part that seems like wishful thinking.
[:$]
Robert Pavich
For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__
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tom collinge said:
Please note that coping and sending the data to a kindle is in violation of Logos' EULA. The EULA has a section titled "THINGS YOU MAY NOT DO," and in this section the EULA states that we cannot "copy the Software or Content except to make archival or backup copies as provided above."
Because sending data to a kindle is not classified as archival or backup, sending data to a kindle is in violation of Logos' EULA
Logos' EULA has a section titled "THINGS YOU MAY NOT DO":
The Software, Content, and Documentation are protected by United States copyright laws and international treaties. You must treat the Software, Content, and Documentation like any other copyrighted material--for example a book. You may not:
- copy the Documentation,
- copy the Software or Content except to make archival or backup copies as provided above,
- modify or adapt the Software or merge it into another program,
- reverse engineer, disassemble, decompile or make any attempt to discover the source code of the Software,
- place the Software or Content onto a server so that it is accessible via a public network such as the Internet,
- sublicense, rent, lease or lend any portion of the Software, Content, or Documentation, or
- reverse engineer, disassemble, decompile or make any attempt to "unlock" or circumvent the digital copyright protection of the Content.
Observation: copying content to Kindle appears to violate couple more items: adaption into another program (Logos does not license content for Kindle use) along with using Amazon's servers via a public network to transfer content to Kindle.
Keep Smiling [:)]
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- copy the Software or Content except to make archival or backup copies as provided above,
Define "copy" ,,, [6]
Humor warning: just in case you missed it.
Robert Pavich
For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__
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Robert Pavich said:R. Mansfield said:
Again, interpretation. If I archive a television show and watch it exclusively from my homemade DVD anytime I want, I'm not doing anything illegal. So says US law.
Where in the definition of Archive does it say "transfer to another medium and use it on another device?
Rolled up in the definition of archive is the idea of "storing something away"....not changing formats to use in another way...
Okay, quick history lesson here. When VCRs first came on the scene in the seventies, TV networks had a fit because they said it was illegal to copy and archive television shows for later viewing--even if private. The US legal system ruled on the side of the consumer as long as the content was not being sold or shared. By principle, let me say this again, if I transfer content from a television signal to a VCR, it changes format. In today's terms, if I transfer it from my TiVo to my computer and then to a DVD that I play on my computer, both its format and the device changes. But no network could legally hold me accountable for this. The law would be on my side.
Because the law is never as fast as technology, everything is based on precedent. I maintain that moving this content from Logos to the Kindle for my own private use is neither illegal nor dishonest. It's fair use as long as I do not distribute it.
Again, I ask if this is any different than making a hard copy of a journal article--whether from the original journal or from an electronic source--and storing it in a filing cabinet for later reading (as opposed to going back to the original source for later reading)?
Changing formats and other "devices" is inherent in all the above.
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R. Mansfield said:Robert Pavich said:R. Mansfield said:
Again, interpretation. If I archive a television show and watch it exclusively from my homemade DVD anytime I want, I'm not doing anything illegal. So says US law.
Where in the definition of Archive does it say "transfer to another medium and use it on another device?
Rolled up in the definition of archive is the idea of "storing something away"....not changing formats to use in another way...
Okay, quick history lesson here. When VCRs first came on the scene in the seventies, TV networks had a fit because they said it was illegal to copy and archive television shows for later viewing--even if private. The US legal system ruled on the side of the consumer as long as the content was not being sold or shared. By principle, let me say this again, if I transfer content from a television signal to a VCR, it changes format. In today's terms, if I transfer it from my TiVo to my computer and then to a DVD that I play on my computer, both its format and the device changes. But no network could legally hold me accountable for this. The law would be on my side.
Because the law is never as fast as technology, everything is based on precedent. I maintain that moving this content from Logos to the Kindle for my own private use is neither illegal nor dishonest. It's fair use as long as I do not distribute it.
Again, I ask if this is any different than making a hard copy of a journal article--whether from the original journal or from an electronic source--and storing it in a filing cabinet for later reading (as opposed to going back to the original source for later reading)?
Changing formats and other "devices" is inherent in all the above.
Was any of that in the context of archiving digital content?
Honestly....that all looks like justification to me....no offense.
Robert Pavich
For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__
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Logos' EULA has a section titled "THINGS YOU MAY NOT DO":
The Software, Content, and Documentation are protected by United States copyright laws and international treaties. You must treat the Software, Content, and Documentation like any other copyrighted material--for example a book. You may not:
- copy the Documentation,
- copy the Software or Content except to make archival or backup copies as provided above,
- modify or adapt the Software or merge it into another program,
- reverse engineer, disassemble, decompile or make any attempt to discover the source code of the Software,
- place the Software or Content onto a server so that it is accessible via a public network such as the Internet,
- sublicense, rent, lease or lend any portion of the Software, Content, or Documentation, or
- reverse engineer, disassemble, decompile or make any attempt to "unlock" or circumvent the digital copyright protection of the Content.
Observation: copying content to Kindle appears to violate couple more items: adaption into another program (Logos does not license content for Kindle use) along with using Amazon's servers via a public network to transfer content to Kindle.
Keep Smiling
First, your observation misquotes the EULA because the EULA states that you may not adapt the software into another program. The EULA uses software separate from content.
Second, my content on Amazon's servers is NOT public. Only I can access it. By your reasoning, one could not back up their computer (including their Logos files) to any kind of offline storage such as Carbonite, Mozy or even one's MobileMe iDisk.
Look, as I said yesterday, publishers are scared to death of their content being distributed to others without their getting compensation. I understand this. Therefore, I don't expect Logos to say, "Hey, if you're copying this to your own Kindle, printing it out for your filing cabinet or whatever, that's fine with us." That would scare the publishers away.
But this is the world in which we live. We are mobile and use a variety of mobile devices. Again, I would never want to do anything illegal, and I especially wouldn't want to do anything unethical. I'm telling you that what is being described here is neither. As I've said before, this copyright discussion is a red herring and a waste of time. I can't believe I got dragged into it again!
My wife is Library and Textbook liaison for the Kentucky Department of Education. We've had many of these discussions. When these kinds discussions arise in the public schools, she's the one the state turns to. She and I have talked about this kind of stuff many times, and I can assure you private use content such as this is not illegal.
But again, if you don't feel comfortable with it, don't do it.
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Robert Pavich said:
Was any of that in the context of archiving digital content?
I was using the analogy of other media because it applies. Think of it like a parable. Plus, all law is based on precedent.
Robert Pavich said:Honestly....that all looks like justification to me....no offense.
And now the ad hominem arguments begin? Brother, you don't know my motives or my thoughts. No justification here. If I thought I was doing something wrong, I would not do it.
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R. Mansfield said:
And now the ad hominem arguments begin? Brother, you don't know my motives or my thoughts. No justification here. If I thought I was doing something wrong, I would not do it.
No ad hominem....just observation....that's why I made sure to include "no offense"
Robert Pavich
For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__
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Robert Pavich said:
No ad hominem....just observation....that's why I made sure to include "no offense"
Of course, that's how we make ad hominem arguments on the internet. We follow the phrases with "no offense" or "LOL." Or we call them "observations" or "in my opinion." But it is what it is.
Again, you don't know my heart, thoughts or intentions. I have not made myself personally accountable to you, asking for such observations. Therefore you're not qualified to make them.
No offense.
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R. Mansfield said:
Again, you don't know my heart, thoughts or intentions. I have not made myself personally accountable to you, asking for such observations. Therefore you're not qualified to make them.
I understand your observation that I don't know your motives...no offense taken...
BUT look CAREFULLY at my words....
I said "THAT ALL LOOKS like justification to me..."
I didn't say that I KNOW YOUR MOTIVES...because I don't.
So evidently you've misunderstood me also.
Robert Pavich
For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__
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My point is that we were civilly discussing the legality of converting Logos texts to other devices, specifically the Kindle. Rather than dealing with my points, you switched tracks to the personal by claiming that my statements look like justification on my part of my actions.
Even if it's stated that it looks like something to you, it's not really relevant to the discussion, is it? We were discussing the fine points of the issue, and you made it personal by offering an interpretation as to the motives of my points.
This is often done in debates as an attempt to write off an opponent's arguments rather than actually dealing with them. I'm not saying that's what you were trying to do in this case, but I do note that the discussion of topic came to a halt. I can tell you that years ago when I used to both participate and judge debates, a statement like yours, regardless of how well it was cushioned, would have resulted in a loss of points.
Regardless, I've already said this is a waste of my time. I've got to finish grading papers today. I can't spend any more time on this subject. I'm going to "shake the dust from my sandals" and move on.
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Living and learning (including Gal 6) - looking at Logos' EULA - noted license granted for Software and Content together:
LICENSE GRANT
The package contains software ("Software") and may contain electronic text, graphics, audio, or other resources ("Content") and related explanatory written materials ("Documentation"). "Software" includes any upgrades, modified versions, updates, additions and copies of the Software. "You" means the one person or company who is being licensed to use the Software, Content and Documentation. "We" and "us" means Libronix Corporation and its parent company, Logos Research Systems, Inc. In the case of a company purchasing the Software, only one person may be designated as the user of that software and in no case is the software allowed to be used by more than one person. In no way shall "company" be construed in such a way as to allow for site-licenses, shared licenses, co-op licenses, library licenses or multi-user licenses. A church or company may be the purchaser and thus legal owner of the license grant, but may only allow one human being to be the beneficiary of this license grant.
We hereby grant you a nonexclusive license to use one copy of the Software and "unlocked" Content on any single computer, provided the Software and Content are in use on only one computer at any time. The Software is "in use" on a computer when it is loaded into temporary memory (RAM) or installed into the permanent memory of a computer--for example, a hard disk, CD-ROM or other storage device.
If the Software and Content are permanently installed on the hard disk or other storage device of a computer (other than a network server) and one person uses that computer more than 80% of the time, then that person may also use the Software and Content on a portable or home computer.
The package may contain Content that is NOT licensed to you. This Content is "locked" in electronic form and is included for your convenience should you desire to "unlock" it by purchasing a license for it. Content that you "unlock" is covered by this agreement.
TITLE
We remain the owner of all right, title and interest in the Software and Documentation. Ownership of the Content remains with Copyright holders.
Keep Smiling [:)]
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R. Mansfield said:
My point is that we were civilly discussing the legality of converting Logos texts to other devices, specifically the Kindle. Rather than dealing with my points, you switched tracks to the personal by claiming that my statements look like justification on my part of my actions.
Even if it's stated that it looks like something to you, it's not really relevant to the discussion, is it? We were discussing the fine points of the issue, and you made it personal by offering an interpretation as to the motives of my points.
This is often done in debates as an attempt to write off an opponent's arguments rather than actually dealing with them. I'm not saying that's what you were trying to do in this case, but I do note that the discussion of topic came to a halt. I can tell you that years ago when I used to both participate and judge debates, a statement like yours, regardless of how well it was cushioned, would have resulted in a loss of points.
Regardless, I've already said this is a waste of my time. I've got to finish grading papers today. I can't spend any more time on this subject. I'm going to "shake the dust from my sandals" and move on.
You completely misunderstood what I said.
None of what you just listed was my intent.
But none the less if you are bound and determined to be offended...then I apologize and I'll drop it...it wasn't that important to begin with.
Robert Pavich
For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__
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The software does include the Print/Export function, with the option of exporting to other formats such as Microsoft Word and HTML, albeit restricted to 100 pages at a time. Despite the wording of the EULA, I can see little difference between exporting to a Word document and converting that Word document into a Kindle file, providing the purpose is simply to make the content that we have purchased more convenient to read, not to access or make available to others content that we have not purchased. It would perhaps come closer to the usual understanding of reasonable use in copyright law to export one section at a time (perhaps the 100 pages that Logos facilitates) rather than the whole book.
I actually find using my Kindle to access Biblia.com is less work that exporting and converting to Kindle format. The site is gradually improving and I think will eventually provide fuss-free access to the books and their footnotes.
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Jonathan Pitts said:
The software does include the Print/Export function, with the option of exporting to other formats such as Microsoft Word and HTML, albeit restricted to 100 pages at a time.
That's a very good point....
That would lend credence to the idea that (at least in less than 100 page chunks) we are allowed to read our resources "offline" so to speak.
PS: I don't like trying to access biblia through my kindle...it just doesn't look right....maybe I'm doing something wrong.
Robert Pavich
For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__
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Robert Pavich said:
PS: I don't like trying to access biblia through my kindle...it just doesn't look right....maybe I'm doing something wrong.
The standard layout of Biblia doesn't work with Kindle. Are you clicking to go to the mobile view, which is much better?
The two outstanding issues are:
1. The font size. The standard view has recently acquired a slider to change font size: it doesn't work on Kindle. There is not yet an equivalent option on the mobile version. At the moment, for each page you have to use the Kindle option to zoom in.
2. On the mobile version we do not yet have popups for the footnotes and links. Instead you click a link that takes you to the bottom of the page, making it difficult (particularly if you have zoomed in) to find where you were in the text.
However, things are gradually progressing, and another update is promised this week.
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I agree about Biblia - not even close to being useful on a Kindle.
Without getting into a debate about the EULA, what good is using the export function if it is limited to 100 pages of a book? Seems like it makes all these methods moot.
How would you export an entire book, assuming it is more than 100 pages?
Jerry
iMac (2019 model), 3Ghz 6 Core Intel i5, 16gb Ram, Radeon Pro Graphics. 500GB SSD.
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Jerry Bush said:
How would you export an entire book, assuming it is more than 100 pages?
I used simple copy (from Logos) and paste (into Word) for Peterson's The Contemplative Pastor.
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RM -
How do you get it to select all the text?
Jerry
iMac (2019 model), 3Ghz 6 Core Intel i5, 16gb Ram, Radeon Pro Graphics. 500GB SSD.
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Jerry Bush said:
How do you get it to select all the text?
Yes, unfortunately, although Select All (Command-A) is in the menu, it doesn't work for selecting all the text in a title. You will have to select all the text manually.
- Go to the beginning of the text. Click in the space right before the first word and drag your mouse to some or all of what you can see on the immediate screen. Then let go of the mouse button. The highlighting should remain.
- Then, using the scroll bar, go to the very end of the text. Hold your shift key down and click with your mouse after the last word. This will increase your highlighting from what you already had selected to the entire text.
- Right-click on the passage, and you should see an option to copy all the text.
- Go to the word processor of your choice and Paste.
That should do it for you.
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R. Mansfield said:Jerry Bush said:
How do you get it to select all the text?
Yes, unfortunately, although Select All (Command-A) is in the menu, it doesn't work for selecting all the text in a title. You will have to select all the text manually.
- Go to the beginning of the text. Click in the space right before the first word and drag your mouse to some or all of what you can see on the immediate screen. Then let go of the mouse button. The highlighting should remain.
- Then, using the scroll bar, go to the very end of the text. Hold your shift key down and click with your mouse after the last word. This will increase your highlighting from what you already had selected to the entire text.
- Right-click on the passage, and you should see an option to copy all the text.
- Go to the word processor of your choice and Paste.
That should do it for you.
I have tried this before and my problem is in step #2. I have done what you said, but when I click on the last word of the text I want, the highlighting happens, but only for about 3 pages back. I can never get it to copy the whole thing. It happens in different books.
I have wanted to do this before, regardless of using it on a Kindle. I have wanted to bring something into Word so I can take it home or read it on the couch, etc. I have never been able to select all of the text in a resource. CTRL+A does not do it either.
Any other ideas?
Jerry
iMac (2019 model), 3Ghz 6 Core Intel i5, 16gb Ram, Radeon Pro Graphics. 500GB SSD.
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Jerry Bush said:
I have tried this before and my problem is in step #2. I have done what you said, but when I click on the last word of the text I want, the highlighting happens, but only for about 3 pages back. I can never get it to copy the whole thing. It happens in different books.
I have wanted to do this before, regardless of using it on a Kindle. I have wanted to bring something into Word so I can take it home or read it on the couch, etc. I have never been able to select all of the text in a resource. CTRL+A does not do it either.
Any other ideas?
I'm having trouble with it myself now. It could be that we talked too much about it yesterday, and part of the process is now blocked thanks to the beta just released.
However, I found that it is still possible if you do one of two things. Either hold the mouse down at the bottom of the screen and let it scroll to the bottom of the title (tedious and slow, but perhaps something that could be mindlessly done while watching TV or something) or holding the shift key down and clicking once every few pages down, grabbing much smaller bites at a time. I was able to select and keep the entire text using either of these methods. However, the other key is to simply hit Command-C or choose Copy from the menu. If you right-click, you only get the immediate section.
And obviously, the other option is to simply cut and paste one section at a time. All of this has to be weighed against how much you want the text in another format. I wanted to read the entire book by Peterson on my Kindle and take notes--something I can't do any other way. So, the effort in that context would still be easier to me, although it was certainly easier a couple of days ago.
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Does anyone else have a better way to do this?
More importantly, I would like to hear from Logos.
I am not a pirate/thief/etc. I especially would never do anything to hurt my favorite company, Logos.
I simply want to read my books on the Kindle. Logos, can I do this without violating the agreement and if I can, is there a way to get it done?
Jerry
iMac (2019 model), 3Ghz 6 Core Intel i5, 16gb Ram, Radeon Pro Graphics. 500GB SSD.
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Ditto for me Jerry...
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Jerry Bush said:
Does anyone else have a better way to do this?
I'm a PC user, but I believe the latest beta version for Mac now incorporates the Print/Export function. This allows you to choose which sections of a resource to export to a format such as a Word document. It is limited to 100 pages at a time, but you can also copy and paste further sections. It takes a while to do a whole book, but it is more controllable than highlighting text in the resource.
The Word document can then be emailed to your Kindle.
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