Logos - Please invest more in the mobile apps
Comments
-
I think Logos should seriously consider making a paid version of the app ($5.99?) that has the features of highlighting and syncing reading. That would be a revenue driver for Logos, and would certainly be worth the value for the Logos user.
Fred Greco
Senior Pastor, Christ Church PCA, Katy, TX
Windows 10 64-bit; Logos 7.1 SR-2 (Reformed Platinum)0 -
I agree. I would be willing to pay up to US$15 for a good, solid, feature-complete mobile app, if that would help fund and speed up development on the mobile apps. Of course, I do hope that existing customers will be grandfathered.
On the desktop apps (PC and Mac), I think Logos may also want to revisit their pledge from years ago that "the engine is always free." If a reasonable price (say US$50) is applied to the initial program purchase, that might again help fund the expensive development costs on those platforms. This in turn would hopefully allow the resource prices to come down.
There have been many complaints about the high prices of Logos resources compared to competitors. Perhaps this is one of the reasons (other vendors do charge for the engine / app on top of the individual resources).
Thoughts?
Peter
0 -
Fred Greco said:
I think Logos should seriously consider making a paid version of the app ($5.99?) that has the features of highlighting and syncing reading. That would be a revenue driver for Logos, and would certainly be worth the value for the Logos user.
Fred. Say it ain't so! No way, my friend. Here is what you need to know about Logos... The primary driver for the business is the DESKTOP app. The mobile app is a very nice side benefit. Logos IS working on an app with notes & highlighting, but the first requirement of the app is that it work with the DESKTOP client. They are working on it, but you must be patient. Logos 4.5, currently in beta, will bring the needed changes to allow for notes & highlighting. A reworking of the reading plan sync is next in line.
macOS, iOS & iPadOS |Logs| Install
Choose Truth Over Tribe | Become a Joyful Outsider!0 -
Fred Greco said:
I think Logos should seriously consider making a paid version of the app ($5.99?) that has the features of highlighting and syncing reading. That would be a revenue driver for Logos, and would certainly be worth the value for the Logos user.
While forking over a few bucks to get these features might be a worthy thing to do, it would also be an insult to those of us who have been using this app for a year now with the promise that these features would be "coming soon" for many months now especially when you consider that the majority of iOS apps upgrade for free as the norm. A company producing Bible software should not do something as insulting. I also doubt this is not a revenue issue as much as a problem finding good programers willing to relocate to Bellingham WA.
Dr. Kevin Purcell, Director of Missions
Brushy Mountain Baptist Association0 -
Kevin A. Purcell said:
While forking over a few bucks to get these features might be a worthy thing to do, it would also be an insult to those of us who have been using this app for a year now with the promise that these features would be "coming soon" for many months now especially when you consider that the majority of iOS apps upgrade for free as the norm. A company producing Bible software should not do something as insulting.
While I tend to agree, Logos would not need to charge existing users, only new users. The upgrade can continue to be free, but new users would need to buy the app
Kevin A. Purcell said:I also doubt this is not a revenue issue as much as a problem finding good programers willing to relocate to Bellingham WA.
On Page 1 of this thread Bob said that one of the main reasons the mobile team was small is that there is no revenue attached to the mobile app. Charging for it would fix this problem. Charging for it a year ago and adding resources may have even made it happen that much quicker...
0 -
I agree that you have an impossible task keeping up with all the platforms. I moved from a competing desktop based product largely because of the perceived benefit that all platforms were synced, and I have bought a fair amount of content since moving. I did not get the mobile app because it was free but because I thought it would allow me to access the library I had purchased. It was only after buying that I realized it didn't really all sync up except in online mode. That was a painful discovery, since I am in offline mode much of the time because of travel I'm adjusting as best I can and hope some of the worst issue are fixed soon. You are correct i would not use it all on the mobile app, but I would use way more than I currrenlty can offline. I would even be willing to pay for really good app. I admint I was using Olive Tree for my mobile app and something else for my desktop so I'm spoiled as Olive Tree has a great mobile app. If I really want to find something out offline I have to switch back to Olive Tree.
We are never going back to the desktop focus, it's all going to moving to mobile solutions, so I think strategically its' something to embrace as a key survivial strategy. I do appreciate that commitment to cross platform and agree that gives you great power. Perhaps a strategy for a premium mobile app that was truly functional would provide the resources to help develop it I don't know. But the lack of a true offline and online mobile app will be the achiles heal for your company until it is fixed IMHO.
I do wish you the best, and appreciate the hard work that your company puts into the software, I know it's not easy, and we users always want more.
0 -
Darryl Burling said:
On Page 1 of this thread Bob said that one of the main reasons the mobile team was small is that there is no revenue attached to the mobile app. Charging for it would fix this problem. Charging for it a year ago and adding resources may have even made it happen that much quicker...
I can see your point. I'd be willing to pay $9.99 for a new Logos Deluxe app if it was guaranteed to have the features I'm wanting. I have a feeling this is coming soon anyway so hopefully Bob won't read this post and get any ideas.
People like to say, "well its fee so you can't complain." However, I didn't set the price and I would have paid if they had set it higher than free. If at the very beginning Logos said, "We're going to give you access to most of your library for $9.99 extra on the iPad, iPhone, and Android devices" I'd have willingly paid. They set it at zero and I took them up on the offer. As a customer of the product regardless of price I have expectations that I hope will be met and I use these forums to express them because I know Logos personnel including the top dogs read them. If I didn't think they read them I would use another venue.
Of course I have a lightly bigger megaphone than most since I have a monthly column in a digital magazine with a circulation in the tens of thousands. I haven't said too much about it there, but would if I didn't think Logos was being responsive to its users. Fortunately, they seem to be even if slower than I'd like.
Dr. Kevin Purcell, Director of Missions
Brushy Mountain Baptist Association0 -
Kevin, how can we subscribe to your column?
0 -
Go to Christian Computing Magazine's website. www.ccmag.com - free monthly mag.
Dr. Kevin Purcell, Director of Missions
Brushy Mountain Baptist Association0 -
Well I at last have bible software that has notes, resources, highlighting, notes, and works on my Mac, iPhone and iPad, syncs across all of them easily, searches resources quickly and works offline as on line and makes the library available on all platforms. It isn't logos.
I still use logos, I bought a lot of books on it. I can read them on my iPad when I download them. But for me that is it with logos. Recently I tried firing it up on my computer and it had to spend an age updating and then crashed.
I know the good points, they are not good enough. I know we all have a lot of cash invested, but I have found a better library investment. Sorry logos, but the other day I found myself recommending a competitor and so have to ask myself, why not follow my own recommendation?
0 -
I chose Logos because of the ipad app. I had been hanging back for 3 years while studying, because I knew that sitting reading books in front of the computer was not what I wanted to do. The ipad plus the app was a great solution - while out and about, waiting for this and that, I would be able to do my Greek study (particularly). What a bitter disappointment when after I'd forked out hundreds of dollars (for Logos and the ipad!) I found that I couldn't access many of the things I needed while offline! (Morphology / definition of selected Greek words not available offline is particularly sad, something that I often want access to). I barely use my desktop version. To hear that lack of a few dollars is a reason given seems ridiculous - what is $10 or $20 more when the overall cost of Logos is in the hundreds and thousands?
Bob wrote "Yes, some people do buy the desktop software so they can use the books on the mobile device, but it's just a small fraction of our customers (and thus, of our revenue)." I wonder how he justifies his view that it is a small fraction? I was not asked, when I purchased Logos, whether I was intending to mainly use the books on the mobile device. If I had been asked, I would have said yes!
0 -
Naomi - First, welcome to the forums!
Naomi Frances Quirke said:I wonder how he justifies his view that it is a small fraction?
I am pretty sure that Bob (the founder and owner of the company) knows (roughly) how many Logos users are on Windows, Mac, iOS & Android.
Naomi Frances Quirke said:What a bitter disappointment when after I'd forked out hundreds of dollars (for Logos and the ipad!) I found that I couldn't access many of the things I needed while offline!
If you are very upset about it, call and ask for a refund (for the books, not the iPad [;)]). Logos is very generous with their refund policy. Personally, however, I think Logos has the best desktop and mobile app on the market.
macOS, iOS & iPadOS |Logs| Install
Choose Truth Over Tribe | Become a Joyful Outsider!0 -
Thanks Alabama24 for the welcome. :-) This forum business is certainly new to me and scary.
Yes I see now that of course it is possible to see the number of users who have both a logos membership and use the mobile app. I'm surprised that there are so few who currently have both. But his stats would not say the number of potential users of both. Maybe the health /growth of any competitor in the mobile app business would give such an indication.
Re refund, the decision I'm referring to was not those made on the individual books, but the one I made to purchase the whole system, which I assumed included the mobile app. It is a completely different issue to get a refund of everything (even if it was available) that I've bought because I was disappointed that the mobile app didn't have the functionality that I thought it did. Every book that I've wanted I've been able to download to my ipad. It is the other stuff - the bookmarks working strangely, not being able to flick between books and find my way back, no highlighting, no noting, and what I mentioned before: the morphology not available off line.
Just recently there was an upgrade to the mobile app. Yay! We can now highlight and note and find our way through history better. Fabulous! But... there is a little more to go.
0 -
Naomi, you might like to try a remote desktop app such as LogMeIn. I use this for original language work, where I want popups and the information pane. I can see Logos on my PC from my iPad.
I was using this even more, but the latest version of Logos for iPad is now good for reading most things.
0 -
Naomi Frances Quirke said:
Thanks Alabama24 for the welcome. :-) This forum business is certainly new to me and scary.
Likewise Welcome [:D]
Thankful for many friendly forum discussions; have learned a lot plus have a lot to learn.
On 15 Mar 2012, Bob Pritchett (CEO) replied about Android development => http://community.logos.com/forums/p/46971/349397.aspx#349397
On 4 Mar 2012 Bob Pritchett's reply => http://community.logos.com/forums/p/38483/345521.aspx#345521 included:
Bob Pritchett said:Soon, 90% of "computer use" will be phones, tablets, and appliances. Our old customer base will be just 10% of the market.
The good news is that in absolute numbers, the desktop / technical audience is bigger than ever. It's just being dwarfed as a percentage by all the new "computer users" who have entered the market.
With Apple selling 3 million new iPad's on opening weekend in stores; anticipating more Logos use on iPad's. Suspect iPad will be primary tablet, with Amazon's Kindle Fire being next. Wonder when Logos mobile app installations on iPad's will number more than Logos 4 installations ? (suspect soon if it has not already happened)
Naomi Frances Quirke said:Just recently there was an upgrade to the mobile app. Yay! We can now highlight and note and find our way through history better. Fabulous! But... there is a little more to go.
Vyrso 2.1.0 app already available, watching and waiting for Bible! 2.1.0 app.
Personally dreaming about more Logos features on an iPad, especially offline (airplane) use. Looking forward to Logos Bible Software improvements on all platforms.
Keep Smiling [:)]
0 -
I was going to start a thread, but I thought I'd start here. Okay, so if I understand this, there is currently no way to get definition/morphology information on Logos for iPad while offline?
0 -
Mike Durso said:
I was going to start a thread
Generally, thats a good idea unless your post directly ties to the original post. [:)]
Mike Durso said:Okay, so if I understand this, there is currently no way to get definition/morphology information on Logos for iPad while offline?
Correct. This info is pulled from the Logos servers and the function is not performed on the iOS device.
macOS, iOS & iPadOS |Logs| Install
Choose Truth Over Tribe | Become a Joyful Outsider!0 -
OK. That's frustrating. I'm using it for my Hebrew Exegesis course but the WiFi signal is really poor since we have to meet in a lower level classroom.
Has there been any word on that being available offline like the desktop version?
0 -
Mike Durso said:
Has there been any word on that being available offline like the desktop version?
At this point, no. The program would be much larger and complicated with those resources attached. I believe that it will happen, but I don't know when.
macOS, iOS & iPadOS |Logs| Install
Choose Truth Over Tribe | Become a Joyful Outsider!0 -
Mike Durso said:
OK. That's frustrating. I'm using it for my Hebrew Exegesis course but the WiFi signal is really poor since we have to meet in a lower level classroom.
Has there been any word on that being available offline like the desktop version?
Depending your package see if you have Analytical Key to the Old Testament (4 vols.) in your library. It parses every word in the Hebrew Bible, and includes links to the words in BDB which includes links to TWOT (main lexicons you can access on your iPad.
You could have your BHS open on top and the Analytical Key to the Old Testament open on the bottom. Download BDB and TWOT as well and you should be set for your class.
0 -
I suppose this is a work around if you are desperate, but this resource is not included in any of the packages, and so for most of us after investing hundreds if not thousands in resources, this solution requires another 280.
I know the company believes mobile use is a small fraction of their base. I'm sure there is a basis for it. Someone from the company should read the Innovators Dilemna by Clayton M. Christensen. They may then understand that they are a legacy company, and are at signficant risk of being left completely behind by new entrants that are not bound by PC thinking. Just this morning the WSJ noted the deep problems both Dell and HP have as their PC sales are declining signficantly. Whatever the basis for the companies belief on this matter, it doesn't pass the smell test. I want them to succeed, especially as I have a lot of money invested now, but I'm not hopeful as long as they do not realize the seriousness of missing the next curve.
0 -
Dale Garman said:
I know the company believes mobile use is a small fraction of their base.
Quite the contrary. Logos does know that mobile apps are very important and they have invested quite a bit. Personally, I would like to see even more in the mobile platform and they are moving in that direction.
It is important to realize that this thread was started nearly 2 years ago!
What solution are you looking for, by the way? You didnt post earlier.
macOS, iOS & iPadOS |Logs| Install
Choose Truth Over Tribe | Become a Joyful Outsider!0 -
Bob wrote "Yes, some people do buy the desktop software so they can use the books on the mobile device, but it's just a small fraction of our customers (and thus, of our revenue)."
Just a quick comment. This statement suggests that the war may already be lost. With the explosion of mobile devices, if Logos is not a significant part of that market then this is evidence they are being left behind and may never catch up because many mobile users are doing Bible study on those devices. Just sit in any coffee shop. It's really hard for a company to make the paradigm shift to a new platform (and many of the issues are perception issues, as well as technical issues).
0 -
Dale Garman said:
Bob wrote "Yes, some people do buy the desktop software so they can use the books on the mobile device, but it's just a small fraction of our customers (and thus, of our revenue)."
Just a quick comment. This statement suggests that the war may already be lost. With the explosion of mobile devices, if Logos is not a significant part of that market then this is evidence they are being left behind and may never catch up because many mobile users are doing Bible study on those devices. Just sit in any coffee shop. It's really hard for a company to make the paradigm shift to a new platform (and many of the issues are perception issues, as well as technical issues).
That comment of Bob's is from 2010. What may have been true then, doesn't apply now. Since 2010, Logos has enhanced the iOS app for iPad and added an Android app, created the Vyrso reader to reach a different market, and introduced the FaithLife Study Bible. All for mobile. It seems most of Logos recent product announcements have been mobile. So I think this thread needs to go away. Old threads like this just contribute to confusion.
MacBook Pro (2019), ThinkPad E540
0 -
Dale Garman said:
Just this morning the WSJ noted the deep problems both Dell and HP have as their PC sales are declining signficantly
PC sales have been in decline for sometime hence IBM's decision to exit this space some years ago, if you look around corporates you'll find that what has happened is that first there was a move from desktop/tower PCs to notebooks of various sizes some ironically called desktop replacements! There remained however a number of users/functions that needed desktops/towers to run the applications they needed to use. The result was a decline in the requirements for desktop/towers followed by a stabilising of the demand at a lower level because there will typically be some applications that are easier to use/better suited to the desktop/power PC, as antiquated as some now think it is.
The challenge for Dell/HP is that in parallel with the move of users from desktops/towers a number of users started moving to tablets (iPad/Android) as they discovered that you don't need a notebook to check your eMail and use a few web based applications. Factor into this the resurgence of Apple and the amazing number of corporate professionals that use Apple hardware to run a Microsoft OS and Office Suite and suddenly the notebook market that should have been growing because of the move from desktops/tower is also shrinking as more and more mobile users learn to function without one. Over the next couple of years we'll also see the notebook market stabilise around a set of users who need the notebook to run the applications that they need to function.
It seems likely that the tablet will become the low end device of choice for mobile and 'light' users assuming that we don't get some other technology that supersedes it.
The question to ask is where does Logos sit best as an application:
Desktop - well it certainly benefits from the power and with a large library, multiple Windows and other applications like Word, EverNote or PowerPoint open is a prime candidate for this platform...
Notebook - on a 19" wide screen with a second monitor attached I have created a semi portable solution that works for me, not as good as a desktop but enough space to get the job done at home and survive away from home.
For PCs in general I suspect that we will see lower demand but higher prices, especially for higher end systems that will become more specialist/niche like desktop replacement notebooks.
Tablet - I have yet to decide which tablet works for me and whether I will move to one, actually it is more like when. I use the Android Logos application on my phone and its great for reading, OK for note taking but not really a great study tool. I would put it on a par with the early DOS based Bible Software that I used. Sure things will be better on a 10 inch screen but Logos, EverNote and the keyboard on a single screen (once split screen becomes a norm) sounds a bit crowded to me plus I'm not sure how well it will manage my 20GB libraray.
On the plus side, the Logos drive towards greater delivery from the cloud does mean that complex searches can be completed on the server reducing CPU requirements and increasing battery life. The downside is what do I do when I am in a location with poor Internet and I really need a resource that I have not yet downloaded and to perform a couple of 'quick' searches. These will remain very real challenges for sometime yet.
I am sure that Logos have already have a good understanding of their existing and prospective customers and they know that for most users the primary machine used for Logos 4 will be a PC or Mac for the foreseeable future but that their will be an increasing demand for tablet based functionality so that these devices can be used for reading, presenting, gathering thoughts and some basic research. I think that it is highly unlikely that anyone is going to purchase a Scholars Platinum license and use it on an iPad only.
I agree that in a fast changing world that Logos need to keep their eye on the ball but right now I don't believe that the mobile platform is ready to be more than an extension of the 'real' Logos on PC or Mac.
God Bless
Graham
Pastor - NTCOG Basingstoke
0 -
Dale Garman said:
I suppose this is a work around if you are desperate, but this resource is not included in any of the packages, and so for most of us after investing hundreds if not thousands in resources, this solution requires another 280.
I know the company believes mobile use is a small fraction of their base. I'm sure there is a basis for it. Someone from the company should read the Innovators Dilemna by Clayton M. Christensen. They may then understand that they are a legacy company, and are at signficant risk of being left completely behind by new entrants that are not bound by PC thinking. Just this morning the WSJ noted the deep problems both Dell and HP have as their PC sales are declining signficantly. Whatever the basis for the companies belief on this matter, it doesn't pass the smell test. I want them to succeed, especially as I have a lot of money invested now, but I'm not hopeful as long as they do not realize the seriousness of missing the next curve.
I wasn't sure when you had purchased you package, in the past it was part of base collections. That's why I suggested it. But I can see why you wouldn't want to purchase it on its, I wouldn't do that either.
0 -
Whatever Bob's feelings where in 2010, I know he is at least telling people (read me) that mobile is a significant part of their plans going forward. I both interviewed him for my column a few months ago and then had a personal conversation with him in which he assured me that he was working very hard at making logos on all mobile platforms a great experience. I believed him then and still do now.
Dr. Kevin Purcell, Director of Missions
Brushy Mountain Baptist Association0 -
Graham Owen said:
I agree that in a fast changing world that Logos need to keep their eye on the ball but right now I don't believe that the mobile platform is ready to be more than an extension of the 'real' Logos on PC or Mac.
It may not be ready, yet. However, given the acceleration in processing power/memory, we are fast approaching the death of the traditional desktop computer. A company like Logos would do very well to anticipate this to the extent of being ahead of the curve. And ignores this tend at their peril.
“To love means loving the unlovable. To forgive means pardoning the unpardonable. Faith means believing the unbelievable. Hope means hoping when everything seems hopeless.” ~Chesterton
0 -
David Casagrande said:
It may not be ready, yet. However, given the acceleration in processing power/memory, we are fast approaching the death of the traditional desktop computer. A company like Logos would do very well to anticipate this to the extent of being ahead of the curve. And ignores this tend at their peril.
Doesn't seem like they are ignoring it at all. Rather they are aggressively building their mobile and web-based platforms while not abandoning the desktop. While I wish they could go faster, it sure seems like they have a good balance.
Jacob Hantla
Pastor/Elder, Grace Bible Church
gbcaz.org0 -
Todd Phillips said:
So I think this thread needs to go away. Old threads like this just contribute to confusion.
[Y]
Jacob Hantla
Pastor/Elder, Grace Bible Church
gbcaz.org0
