heading / headtitle / headword

Is Logos planning on using headwords/headtitles in the resources they offer? I did a headword/headtitle search on Sin in my entire library (2000+ resources) and get nothing.

I'm getting fustrated searching on a field that is not functional. I've created a multitude of collections to fine tune my search, but keep getting no hits. I could capitalize the word I'm looking for and toggle match case, but then I'll get more hits than I need, and have to sift through pages of results.

I'm shaking my head and feeling empty having so many resources, with such a powerful program, and no way to get what I need the way I need it. Are there any other fields that I can search on to get basic entries in a dictionary or encyclopedia?

Searching and Sobbing in NY,

Anthony

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Rosie Perera

Most of the basic entries in dictionaries and encylopedias can be found by simply searching on them without restricting the search to headword/headtitle (I suspect those are reserved for future use but have not been implemented yet). The Logos Controlled Vocabulary (LCV) database has tagged a large number of topical words in the most popular dictionaries/encyclopedias, and Logos in continually working on tagging more resources. So when you search for something like, say, Atonement, you will get all the headword hits at the beginning in the Topics section of your search results.

If you happen to be searching for a word or phrase that is not in the LCV database and the above search method doesn't work for you, another thing to try would be keeping a Collection of all your encyclopedias (all Bible dictionaries are now of type "Encyclopedia" so the collection rule type:encyclopedia should capture what you're looking for) and then restrict your searches to just that collection.

Anthony U

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/209634#Comment_209634

Thanks Rosie-

I actually have an extensive amount of collections but never get any hits (or very very few) when I do a headword search. When I do a basic search on a word without the headword field, the results are too numerous and not pertinent. I tried looking up sin in my encyclopedias - I got over 10,000 hits!

I guess I'm between a rock and a hard place on this one. Thanks for the help though.

Rosie Perera

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/209642#Comment_209642

When you do a search for sin in your Entire Library, you will get a Topic section at the top of the search results. (This section doesn't show up when you do a restricted search.) Click to expand it and you'll see all the results from resources that have been tagged with LCV (which is their answer to topical searching; better than headword searching once it is fully implemented, because it understands synonyms too; and most of the best dictionaries and encyclopedias have already been tagged):

Anthony U

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/209657#Comment_209657

Got it - thanks again Rosie. Does Logos intend to tag other books besides the encyclopedias?

Rosie Perera

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/209669#Comment_209669

Got it - thanks again Rosie. Does Logos intend to tag other books besides the encyclopedias?

I think very few if any -- their primary goal right now is to finish doing resources that have real headword entries like encyclopedias. It would be an enormous amount of work to determine which sections of monographs deserved to be tagged with which LCV words. I would love it if they'd do that though, since I too have been frustrated at the inability to search for topical treatments in books other than encyclopedias. I've suggested that maybe they could at least implement a search feature that would restrict results to the Tables of Contents of books. See this thread for Bob Pritchett's soliticiting input from us about what search capabilities we want that we can't do currently.

Here are some posts where Senior Information Architect Sean Boisen has revealed some of their plans for LCV:

http://community.logos.com/forums/p/3470/27363.aspx#27363

http://community.logos.com/forums/p/12424/96953.aspx#96953

http://community.logos.com/forums/p/12424/97026.aspx#97026

http://community.logos.com/forums/p/12424/136246.aspx#136246

http://community.logos.com/forums/p/12424/136250.aspx#136250

http://community.logos.com/forums/p/12424/136254.aspx#136254

http://community.logos.com/forums/p/22623/168983.aspx#168983

http://community.logos.com/forums/p/22731/169570.aspx#169570

Anthony U

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/209722#Comment_209722

The table of contents idea is great and would solve alot of my problems. Do we have to propose this as an idea? Thanks for letting me vent - I feel better now that I know I'm not the only one.

Grace & Peace

Rosie Perera

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/209728#Comment_209728

The table of contents idea is great and would solve alot of my problems. Do we have to propose this as an idea?

Well, I already posted it in my reply to Bob's thread. So if he's reading all the replies still, it's gotten through somehow. Other people have asked for the ability to search in headings in monographs too, I'm pretty sure. But I've just added it to UserVoice since I didn't see it there. Here's the link; please vote for it!

Sean Boisen

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/209722#Comment_209722

Just to whet your appetite, we have about 25 more resources in the pipeline for LCV annotation, so you'll hopefully see quite a few more soon.

Anthony U

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/209728#Comment_209728

I am excited that this could happen, but it seems I'm out of votes. How do I get more or move one to this?

Kevin Becker

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/209889#Comment_209889

I am excited that this could happen, but it seems I'm out of votes. How do I get more or move one to this?

You only get 10 votes. What you need to do is click on one of the orange numbers under the item's total vote. Then you can adjust your vote to zero and now you will have a vote to move.

Just to whet your appetite, we have
about 25 more resources in the pipeline for LCV annotation, so you'll
hopefully see quite a few more soon.

Nice! Looking forward to it.

Anthony U

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/209897#Comment_209897

Thanks Kevin - I'm on it!

Louis St. Hilaire

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/209955#Comment_209955

Anthony,

Have you tried searching the "Heading Text" field, or, if you're running the beta, the "Large Text" field?

We've got a ways to go, but, as I describe in this post, we're making progress toward implementing what you're looking for using these fields.

Anthony U

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/210583#Comment_210583

Yes - I've tried heading text, headword, heading, etc and still get next to no results. I'm not running beta so I don't have access to the "Large Text" option.

I don't understand why Logos would have a search field that isn't usable. I hope the new UserVoice idea gets alot of votes so we can get this done.

Todd Phillips

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/210642#Comment_210642

Yes - I've tried heading text, headword, heading, etc and still get next to no results. I'm not running beta so I don't have access to the "Large Text" option.

I get results when searching for "heading:" (as describe in Louis's post on the other thread).

If I search for "heading:the", I get results in 360 resources (out of 1959 total), so I'm assuming that means there are 360 resources tagged for heading.

Here's this list of resources that return hits for me:

0508.BasicSearchforheadingthe.txt

75% of those resources are journals, which leaves less than 100 non-journal resources that are tagged for heading.

FWIW, I am running the beta, and if I search for "largetext:the", I get results in 1786 resources. So does that mean that about 200 of my resources don't have large text?

Kevin Becker

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/210656#Comment_210656

FWIW, I am running the beta, and if I search for "largetext:the", I get results in 1786 resources. So does that mean that about 200 of my resources don't have large text?

Or 200 have headings that aren't in English

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/210656#Comment_210656

FWIW, I am running the beta, and if I search for "largetext:the", I get results in 1786 resources. So does that mean that about 200 of my resources don't have large text?

No. It means the headings with "the" are not in large text! Other headings may have large text.

Rosie Perera

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/210735#Comment_210735

FWIW, I am running the beta, and if I search for "largetext:the", I get results in 1786 resources. So does that mean that about 200 of my resources don't have large text?

No. It means the headings with "the" are not in large text! Other headings may have large text.

Or they might be books that have no headings in them at all other than the title page, which just doesn't happen to have the word "the" in it. Some of the books are not divided into chapters or sections. Can't come up with any examples off the top of my head, but I remember there is at least one which is simply a speech converted into book format. And then there are all the resource types which by the very nature of their structure aren't likely to have the word "the" in any heading or large text. Lectionaries, for example, and Bible Cross-Reference Indexes, perhaps some Calendar Devotionals that just have dates as headings but no titles, etc.

Mark Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/210735#Comment_210735

Large Text searching is great. Thanks for implementing this. It makes finding the major headings I'm often looking for possible. Two thumbs up!

Paul M

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/210753#Comment_210753

Large Text searching is great. Thanks for implementing this. It makes finding the major headings I'm often looking for possible. Two thumbs up!

I've tried some example of searching using a standard search for sin and then searching the "large text" field for the same results. I think I'm missing the point here but I can't see what large text gives me that I didn't have before! Can someone explain?

Mark Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/211036#Comment_211036

I think I'm missing the point here but I can't see what large text gives me that I didn't have before! Can someone explain?

Paul,

Large text is just a very limited portion of any text, usually associated with a heading or section title. (Since it hasn't been defined for us, that's the best description I can come up with.) So using this limits the search to just those sections of text. It overlaps heading searches in my limited experience, but goes beyond just headings. So it should give significantly different results from searching all the text of a resource.

Here is one example. First a search of all resources searching all text:

Next a search using just heading text:

Now a search using only large text:

There are significantly different results for the three different searches. Without looking at the results you may not be able to see the benefits, but there definitely are some.

Note: For those looking in on this thread, this is not a feature in the release version of Logos 4 at this point, It is in the beta.

Rosie Perera

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/211071#Comment_211071

I've tried some example of searching using a standard search for sin and then searching the "large text" field for the same results. I think I'm missing the point here but I can't see what large text gives me that I didn't have before! Can someone explain?

Here's the difference. Much fewer results, more relevant ones higher up in the list:

But with something as ubiquitous as sin, you still get a huge number of results, not really practical to sift through. So the usefulness of the largetext: field can be better seen if you restrict your search to a collection that is likely to give you the kind of results you're looking for. Either Bible Dictionaries or Systematic Theologies, for example.

A search for largetext:sin in Bible Dictionaries won't get you as good results as searching for sin in your Entire Library and checking the Topic section (see my post above for comparison), but at least it does find you some other major entries related to sin that you might not have stumbled upon that easily otherwise:

Where you'll see this field really start to become powerful is if you combine boolean searching (multiple search terms ANDed together) and restricting the search to a collection. Here for example is a very targeted search for major passages in my systematic theology books dealing with the origin of sin:

Pretty nice!

Anthony U

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/211077#Comment_211077

This is great - I can't wait for this!

Question: Why did "Heredity Guilt" appear if sin and origin aren't large text? Is is because sin is a synonym for guilt in LCV? Thanks.

Todd Phillips

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/211150#Comment_211150

This is great - I can't wait for this!

Question: Why did "Heredity Guilt" appear if sin and origin aren't large text? Is is because sin is a synonym for guilt in LCV? Thanks.

Maybe the large text search is buggy? (The full text search doesn't use the LCV)

"The Fall of Mankind" section also appears and it doesn't have sin and origin in large text either. (I checked both sections ("Hereditary guilt" and "The Fall of Mankind") in the resources to be sure).

Rosie Perera

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/211152#Comment_211152

Question: Why did "Heredity Guilt" appear if sin and origin aren't large text? Is is because sin is a synonym for guilt in LCV? Thanks.

Maybe the large text search is buggy?

Yes, I suspect it's because largetext search is buggy. I looked at the context of the Hereditary Guilt hit, and here it is:

So it appears to be returning results that are within sections where those words appear in the largetext title of the section (I'm thinking perhaps the higher level section heading "Original Sin" that shows up in the TOC is the one taking precedence over the smaller ones, or else maybe "Hereditary Guilt" wasn't tagged properly as largetext and it's picking up Original and Sin from the previous heading, but showing the search hit highlights on the words in body text. One weird thing is that I did not have "Match all word forms" on, though. This is definitely a beta feature and needs some more testing and debugging. I'll report this anomaly.

Just for kicks I also did a search for largetext:hereditary within this resource, and here's the result:

A search for largetext:"original sin in relation to the first adam" in this resource found nothing (with "match case" off).

Melissa Snyder

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/211207#Comment_211207

Yes, I suspect it's because largetext search is buggy. I looked at the context of the Hereditary Guilt hit, and here it is

When copying the heading and article text into Word, keeping Source formatting, the text under "Hereditary Guilt" is 13 pt size, so it is picked up for the largetext field search (above 12pt), whereas the heading itself appears to be 12pt.

Add'l: I've submitted this and another unexpected results to development.

Bradley Grainger (Logos)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/211207#Comment_211207

Question: Why did "Heredity Guilt" appear if sin and origin aren't large text? Is is because sin is a synonym for guilt in LCV? Thanks.

Maybe the large text search is buggy?

Yes, I suspect it's because largetext search is buggy.

largetext search is currently working as designed. I get a hit for "sin" in the first circled area ("Original Sin" heading) and in the third circled area ("Hereditary guilt is not expressly..." paragraph) because the font sizes are 16pt and 13pt respectively. I don't get a hit in the second circled area ("Original sin in relation..." heading) because it's 12pt (i.e., not large text).

The indexing algorithm has been tweaked throughout the beta cycle; missing a hit in the first heading may be a result of an indexing bug that's already been fixed if you haven't rebuilt your index since beta 1 or beta 2.

We'll discuss whether the cutoff for large text needs to be raised above 13pt, though I suspect this would remove hits from resources where 13pt text is used for headings and not for body text.