Potential problems for those just starting with L4
I am excited for the release of L4 as it is a great program. However, there are a few areas I see that may turn off many who are changing from L3 or starting Logos for the first time. (These are not just ways to improve L4, so much as ways that may be a real problem for those starting to use it for the first time.) These may apply more to the "masses" who don't know the original languages, aren't pastors, etc.
I include myself in the "masses" since I am a school teacher that doesn't know any of the original languages and uses Libronix for fairly basic Bible study compared to many (though I have loved the access L3 and now L4 have given to the original languages).
The top areas of concern I see are:
1. Bible Search Speed - L4 is being hyped as fast. For a whole
library search it is. But for a smaller search range (say 1 Bible), L3
is much faster. I am using an Eee PC 900 so I notice speed differences.
If I typed "God" in speed search in L3 it had results almost instantly.
In L4, if I do a search for "God" it takes 43 sec before I see any
results. In L3, if I refined my search it quickly updated. In L4, it
starts again. If I am looking for a specific verse I used to type key
words into L3 Speed Search, now it is generally faster for me to pull
out my paper Bible and skim through looking than to use L4. Honestly, I
try to avoid searching in L4 as much as possible, especially Bible
searches since they are especially slow and that is an area I want results quickly during study rather than as an interruption from it. In L3, I was searching
regularly. We don't necessarily need the "Bible Speed Search" back with its continual updating the search (though I wouldn't mind), but the speed for searching one Bible does need to be improved to almost instant.
(It's been mentioned before, but is there a way that Bibles
could have a separate index that would search quickly for the "Bible"
search? This is the base of Bible software and is the slowest part of
L4.)
THE NEXT TWO JUST NEED TO BE VERY WELL EXPLAINED TO NEW USERS SO THEY KNOW WHAT TO EXPECT AND AREN'T TAKEN BY SURPRISE.
2. Notes Transfer - a lot of people are going to suddenly lose their notes if they want to use L4. (Bob already said this is a priority. I just think that this needs mentioned at release so others know it is coming.)
3. Indexing - This is a necessary evil (and long term benefit for future searches) and Logos has made many improvements. It just needs to be very clear to the new user what is going on, that it won't need done all the time, etc. It needs to be there, but will need to be well explained so people know it is coming and aren't taken by surprise.
The program is great, and has many wonderful features that do enhance my study. I am exited to see others have access to this tool. It would just be nice if these (especially the Bible search speed) could be improved so people aren't turned off and miss the benefits of the rest of the program.
www.3rdcultureliving.com - Simple Abundant Legacy
Comments
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Rob,
I agree with your points except for the searching speed.
I just searched "god" in the ESV basic search; my machine is 3 years old and definitely NOT top of the line and it took 0.42 seconds...less than 1/2 of a second.
I'm indexing right now also.
I don't know why there is such a huge disparity in some of these searches...
Robert Pavich
For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__
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Roberft a lot of it has to do with the computer. I noticed that you have 4GB of Ram and a duo core processor. The condition of your machine makes adifference. The amout of L2 cache on the harddrive, the speed of Front side bus. And whether the machine needs defragmenting, the condition of the registry, how much junk is on the machine, how many days of websurfing is on the machine. Microsoft internet explorer has 20 days by default. Mos people do not change this. How much software is running at the time of the search. The list goes on and on.
Mission: To serve God as He desires.
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Lynden,
keep in mind, my machine is 3 years old...not anything like what's being sold now a days....4gb of ram is just a basic amount; it's routine to get almost twice that much in a machine now, and my processor speed is laughable...it has been for a while.
You would think that a difference of less than a second to almost a minute wouldn't be the case under all but the most adverse circumstances.
hmmm...
Are you saying that your machine needs to be cleaned up a bit? [:D]
Robert Pavich
For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__
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No my laptop is very clean, can't say the same about the desktop though. I just need a new laptop plain and simple. I am using the one the apostle Paul used when he wrote Ephesians. Pentium 4 3.06 GHZ, 1GB RAM, 60 GB DRIVE, I think the bus speed is 133MHZ and not sure what the cache is. It is four years old soon to turn five.
Mission: To serve God as He desires.
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One huge confusing and tech support nightmare I can see is in the Library section if someone choose to sort by subject it is a mess! It has subjects that have duplicates with one having a period and one with no period. There are subjects that have some sort of code as the subject, maybe file name or something.
All I know from my years in IT if I saw this I would be contacting Logos for a option to hide or lock out the sort by subject option if it were not getting cleaned up. It will confuse many a new or less computer literate person.
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 16 & Android 14
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Rob said:
The top areas of concern I see are:
I agree with what you've said so far.
To this I would add the assurance that the Sermon File module for L4 is not here yet, but will be coming soon.
And what should we say about PBB's? Some people have invested hours and hours creating them. Others find some PBB's essential to their work (material not published elsewhere for Logos).
Help links: WIKI; Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)
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Richard DeRuiter said:
And what should we say about PBB's? Some people have invested hours and hours creating them. Others find some PBB's essential to their work (material not published elsewhere for Logos).
...and still some have their only Bible in their language in the form of pbb Bible [:(]
Bohuslav
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Rob said:
1. Bible Search Speed - L4 is being hyped as fast. For a whole
library search it is. But for a smaller search range (say 1 Bible), L3
is much faster. I am using an Eee PC 900 so I notice speed differences.
If I typed "God" in speed search in L3 it had results almost instantly.
In L4, if I do a search for "God" it takes 43 sec before I see any
results. In L3, if I refined my search it quickly updated. In L4, it
starts again. If I am looking for a specific verse I used to type key
words into L3 Speed Search, now it is generally faster for me to pull
out my paper Bible and skim through looking than to use L4.....
(It's been mentioned before, but is there a way that Bibles
could have a separate index that would search quickly for the "Bible"
search? This is the base of Bible software and is the slowest part of
L4.)Rob, the Bible Search using a range of books has improved from early betas. v3 Bible Speed Search is very fast, but I found it about equal to an All Passages search and slightly faster than a Bible range search ->about 2 - 3 secs for each (see my machine specs below). A Basic Search is faster again, but it is not the same as a search on Bible text only (emphasises that L4 is indexed for complete book(s) searches).
Netbooks will be more sensitive to variations because of various compromises, and a 900 MHz Celeron is not an ideal processor for L4! Perhaps more people will have the Atom processor, so it is difficult to say that differences will be as large as yours (depending how you searched). We will have to explain that Bible searches are slower but there are ways to optimise the search, and Logos are looking for further improvements!
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Lynden Williams said:
I am using the one the apostle Paul used when he wrote Ephesians.
Now THAT'S funny.
Robert Pavich
For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__
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Robert Pavich said:Lynden Williams said:
I am using the one the apostle Paul used when he wrote Ephesians.
Now THAT'S funny.
Too bad he wasn't using L4, then we could check his log file and see where he addressed it to, before he deleted the recipients' name. [:D]
Chris
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Robert Pavich said:
Rob,
I just searched "god" in the ESV basic search; my machine is 3 years old and definitely NOT top of the line and it took 0.42 seconds...less than 1/2 of a second.
I have a faster processor on my one year old machine and it took 12.70 seconds to search "god" in ESV the first time. I have done it again without doing anything else and am coming up with times of 3.37 3.47, 3.50, 3.54, 3.62. If I play around with other things in Logos and come back to do the search again I come up with times of 4.00, 4.63. I tried restarting it and it is still around 4 secs. I don't know why it took so long the first time but obviously there are issues. BTW in V3 the results are too fast to time. I am using Vista Business.
Tom
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I guess the only difference that I can see is that I'm still on XP...
Robert Pavich
For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__
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Dave Hooton said:
Rob, the Bible Search using a range of books has improved from early betas. v3 Bible Speed Search is very fast, but I found it about equal to an All Passages search and slightly faster than a Bible range search ->about 2 - 3 secs for each (see my machine specs below). A Basic Search is faster again, but it is not the same as a search on Bible text only (emphasises that L4 is indexed for complete book(s) searches).
With respect to the speed of searches:
I was looking at Morris Proctor's blog (as brought up on my Home Page) on using the L3 Reference Browser and tried his idea. I got instant results. Then I tried to think how I could do the same in L4 and decided to simply use Basic Search, limit it to the Hymnal - with it open and the only resource open - and it first put the program into a "hang" and then produced the results, but took 5.45 seconds. I'm assuming this has not been optimized for L4, yet. Hopefully, when it is it will search much faster to meet the expectations of those who have been told L4 does.
Chris
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Chris Elford said:
I was looking at Morris Proctor's blog (as brought up on my Home Page) on using the L3 Reference Browser
Can you provide the details of the search?
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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