Nestle-Aland Greek New Testament - textual apparatus

Overall, I like Logos... but as a seminary student with limited funds, I was very disappointed to discover that the Nestle Aland NT contained in the basic Scholar edition does NOT include the textual apparatus.

That, to me, is akin to selling study Bibles, but ripping out the concordance that comes with it and charging extra for it.

C'mon Logos... really??? A basic apparatus is standard to most Greek NT's. Why make us pay extra to just to be able to have a capability to (at a glance) determine if there are any significant variation in the text? Not saying we should have an exhaustive apparatus necessarily, but couldn't we have at least *something* along the lines of a basic one?

Respectfully,

Stan

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Comments

DMB

Hi Stanley and welcome to the forum! Regarding your frustration, you probably should re-direct it to the NA27 publisher, who carefully 'manages' what goes with what. If you search 'SESB' on Logos, you'll see (a) quite a bit of animated discussion and (b) how the resource groups are packaged by the publisher. You almost have to buy the most expensive one to get what you want.

Stanley Palmer

Thanks.

Put another way: I would GLADLY trade about 70% of the e-books I have in Logos (most of which have a "reformed" theological bent, which I will probably rarely use, as I am a Lutheran) just to have an apparatus in Greek and Hebrew.

Kevin Becker

The new SBL GNT has a basic apparatus, although it is quite different from NA 27's apparatus. You can get it for free: http://www.logos.com/product/8486/the-greek-new-testament-sbl-edition if you don't already have it.

If you get the Original Language Library or Scholar's Gold or up you can get Tischendorf's apparatus, old but still useful.

The fact of the matter is that even Bibleworks, renowned for its focus on exegesis, does not offer the NA27 apparatus even as an extra module. Accordance, Logos' chief rival on the Mac side of things, has a CD that one must purchase to get the NA27 and BHS apparatuses, it is similar in scope to the SESB for Logos Users which is slightly more expensive but looks like it has more content.

I share your frustration for having a text-only NA 27 but there's not much that can be done.

sansom48

It is true that the SBL has an apparatus, but as you mentioned it is not a critical apparatus which in my opinion defeats the purpose, at least for what I am trying to accomplish with it. BibleWorks does have Tischendorf in the program and not as an add in module which is nice, I personally have come to prefer Tischendorf's over NA 27. That being said Bibleworks has also been very transparent in their dealings and attempts to get the NA 27 apparatus and failure to do so over the German Bible Society unwillingness to come down in price. That being said Bibleworks has also been working on (for quite some time but many of the same frustrations follow with manuscripts and copyright I am afraid) a tool that would help a person to create their own apparatus filled with the variants of the text of their choosing. I feel that this will probably be awhile before we see this. In the meantime, I am satisfied with Logos and their inclusion of NA 27's apparatus and use it as such.

Kevin Becker

That being said Bibleworks has also been very transparent in their dealings and attempts to get the NA 27 apparatus and failure to do so over the German Bible Society unwillingness to come down in price. That being said Bibleworks has also been working on (for quite some time but many of the same frustrations follow with manuscripts and copyright I am afraid) a tool that would help a person to create their own apparatus filled with the variants of the text of their choosing.

This is the logical conclusion of electronic Biblical scholarship and projects like Dan Wallace's Center for the Study of New Testament Manuscripts. I expect that within the not so distant future we will be able to acquire images/transcriptions of almost every extant Greek manuscript with the ability to have a custom or exhaustive apparatus. Such a product would not be limited by the space constraints of a print volume and hopefully will allow for better textual critical deliberations and discussions.

Allen Browne

Hi Stan

I recall the same frustration when I purchased Scholars, and discovered the critical apparatus was not included.

What I ended up doing was adding the Stuttgart Electronic Study Bible (SESB) for Logos Users.

In the end, I guess it has to do with what can and can't be included for the price, given the partnerships with the copyright holders.

Alfonso Espinosa

So even if you have all the resources in SESB aside from the apparatuses, you have to buy the entire SESB just to add the apparatuses?

si_cochran

So even if you have all the resources in SESB aside from the apparatuses, you have to buy the entire SESB just to add the apparatuses?

Yes, that is correct if you are looking for the apparatuses for the BHS, BHQ, NA27, and USB4. I am sure Logos would offer these separately or in a base package if the publisher allowed, but as it is the publisher requires the purchase of one of two SESB packages for apparatuses. The cheapest option is $179.95 http://www.logos.com/product/8484/stuttgart-electronic-study-bible.

Andy

Edit: Post no longer relevant.

BKMitchell

...The fact of the matter is that even Bibleworks, renowned for its focus on exegesis, does not offer the NA27 apparatus even as an extra module. ..

To be fair to Bibleworks it should also be mention that...

As, of BibleWorks version 9 the CNTTS apparatus database is included in the base package. It's basepackage also offers the complete NT digital image sets of the following manuscripts(from Dan Wallace's Center for the Study of New Testament Manuscripts) in their entirety:

Sinaiticus
Vaticanus
Alexandrinus
Bezae
Washingtonianus
Boernerianus
GA1141

Having said that I think the OP would be better served with the full SESB 3.0/Libronix (only 324.95USD) rather than Logos Scholars(629.95USD) since what the OP really wants (at this time) it just the Greek NT with the Apparatus. However, if the OP is a seminary student the OP may need the bigger library provided by Logos4 Scholar package.

DMB

BK ... did you mean http://www.logos.com/product/8484/stuttgart-electronic-study-bible ($180) which has all the apparatus needed?

BKMitchell

... I expect that within the not so distant future we will be able to acquire images/transcriptions of almost every extant Greek manuscript with the ability to have a custom or exhaustive apparatus....

This already being done to some extent in other software (and beautifully so!).

However, it will be interesting to see what Logos, does or what it will offer in the future.

BKMitchell

BK ... did you mean http://www.logos.com/product/8484/stuttgart-electronic-study-bible ($180) which has all the apparatus needed?

Nope, I meant that the OP should probably have gone for the full SESB library, rather than Scholars. Or, that the OP should get a refund or exchange and then get the full SESB. I think that would make more sense.

I think Scholars is a great bargin price wise for students studying theology and needing good basic library in electronic format.

However, for those on tight budgets who need to do exegesis or for those who just want to have the essential Hebrew/Greek (& maybe Aramic) texts in electronic format it is better to just get the Original Languge package OR the full SESB (to get the apparatus and more), and then add extra reasourse as one's budget allows.