Permanent access to our logos library?

Hi,

I am planning on buying some of the more expensive commentary sets for logos, and I just wanted to be sure....if Logos were to ever go out of business, would we still have access to all of our logos library resources that we have purchased, on our computers?

Thanks for you help! Right now I am just weighing out the pros and cons of having the logos version vs. the print version of certain sets.

- David

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Rick

Hi David. Yes, you would still have access to all of your library, they are stored on your computer. Although I truly cannot even fathom Logos going under, the only thing that would eventually happen is with new operating systems, it may not be able to install on future systems.

George Somsel

Hi,

          I am planning on buying some of the more expensive commentary sets for logos, and I just wanted to be sure....if Logos were to ever go out of business, would we still have access to all of our logos library resources that we have purchased, on our computers?

                Thanks for you help! Right now I am just weighing out the pros and cons of having the logos version vs. the print version of certain sets.

                                                                           - David

Yes, of course, there would be no updates to the program, no new resources and no corrections to typos, but you would still have access to your resources so long as the program continued to operate, i.e., so long as the OS didn't make it obsolete or you don't trash the program.

Juanita

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/223566#Comment_223566

So, it's good news if you are a senior citizen and bad news if you just turned twenty one. [:D]

Dan Francis

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/223566#Comment_223566

Hi,

          I am planning on buying some of the more expensive commentary sets for logos, and I just wanted to be sure....if Logos were to ever go out of business, would we still have access to all of our logos library resources that we have purchased, on our computers?

                Thanks for you help! Right now I am just weighing out the pros and cons of having the logos version vs. the print version of certain sets.

                                                                           - David

Yes, of course, there would be no updates to the program, no new resources and no corrections to typos, but you would still have access to your resources so long as the program continued to operate, i.e., so long as the OS didn't make it obsolete or you don't trash the program.

There are almost always ways around the end of a program. Virtual machines can often be run to allow for older software to operate in an environment it likes. I think MS offers something called Virtual PC (it already owned the name from when it use to make emulation software for macs). So you can happily have an old OS running in shell window giving you support for running older software. I know personally I run sheepshaver OS 9 emulator to run my New Oxford Annotated library and a few other programs i wouldn't want to be without. I also run a parallels machine with Windows XP to run Foilio and a couple of other windows programs. So advancements in OS can almost always be overcome with a little emulation/ virtual machine.

-Dan

George Somsel

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/223574#Comment_223574

So, it's good news if you are a senior citizen and bad news if you just turned twenty one.

Never a rose without a thorn.

George Somsel

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/223575#Comment_223575

Yes, of course, there would be no updates to the program, no new resources and no corrections to typos, but you would still have access to your resources so long as the program continued to operate, i.e., so long as the OS didn't make it obsolete or you don't trash the program.

There are almost always ways around the end of a program. Virtual machines can often be run to allow for older software to operate in an environment it likes. I think MS offers something called Virtual PC (it already owned the name from when it use to make emulation software for macs). So you can happily have an old OS running in shell window giving you support for running older software. I know personally I run sheepshaver OS 9 emulator to run my New Oxford Annotated library and a few other programs i wouldn't want to be without. I also run a parallels machine with Windows XP to run Foilio and a couple of other windows programs. So advancements in OS can almost always be overcome with a little emulation/ virtual machine.

-Dan

But unless you have a disk with the program so that you can install it on a new machine or under a new OS which isn't compatible running under a VM, how are you to install it?

Floyd Johnson

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/223576#Comment_223576

The ability to store our books on our own machine is one of the things I appreciate about LOGOS.

I own another piece of software (not Bible software) that requires that I log into the manufacturer's servers every time I start the software. The connection is not needed to run the software - just to start it and log in. Once I am verified as a user, the Internet is no longer needed. A power failure at their server site (and it has happened twice this past year) means I cannot use the software.

Thank you LOGOS.

Rich DeRuiter

Hi,

          I am planning on buying some of the more expensive commentary sets for logos, and I just wanted to be sure....if Logos were to ever go out of business, would we still have access to all of our logos library resources that we have purchased, on our computers?

                Thanks for you help! Right now I am just weighing out the pros and cons of having the logos version vs. the print version of certain sets.

                                                                           - David

Don't forget that print editions are subject to the 'moth and rust' principle too. I know someone who lost most of their TDNT (the multivolume set) to termites. Fire, water and mold can also damage books -- and such damage can happen at home or when in transit to a new ministry location. In some books, over time, the binding glue will break down causing pages to fall out -- even in hard back resources. Both heat and humidity are enemies of the longetivity of paper books.

There are long term dangers either way, so the question is really one of whether the risks outweigh the benefits.

The likelihood of Logos going under in our lifetime is quite low, IMHO. As I've seen Logos grow, create and maintain relationships with publishers, build their program with a strong commitment to future technologies, and grow their customer base exponentially in the process, I think were' on pretty firm ground here. Logos is not only the best Bible research program over all (any way you look at it), it's also the most widely used (not something you can say about a lot of software); both criteria are necessary to guarantee a future for the program.

Besides that, for me, I so much prefer books in Logos, that I never, ever buy commentaries in paper form any more. Logos is so much more convenient, that I have all my commentaries literally at my finger tips. Further, when I decide to open one, it opens to the exact place where my Bible is open. I can sometimes read 5 commentaries on a single verse before I'm able to walk 2 steps, grab a book and open it to the right page. My time is worth more to me than my money, so for me this is a no brainer.

David Ogilbee

Thanks for all the responses!

Does anyone know if a CD-Rom version of the NICOT/NICNT is available?

Thanks!

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/223574#Comment_223574

I agree with the gist of Joan's comment. Assurances of life after 'Logos' are relative to one's age. Take for example L3 a few days ago, which just about 'bit the dust' absent Logos sending a note to MS (who knows ... maybe absent Logos, another company would send a note). But having large amounts of binary data on your very own disk drive is only useful with a working program to read it. That's why we keep several older computers downstairs in the music room, none attached to the internet and all clean installs (mostly to run classic synth software, but L3's got his little home down there too where MS can't bother him).

J Hale

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/223584#Comment_223584

The benefits of Logos books over print are overwhelming:

No chance of losing one book in a multi-book set.

The print in the books will always be readable.

Can make and take off highlighting, and notes without destroying the book.

If you loose your books (as in you loose your computer), or if the book gets an update, has errors, Logos will change those errors, download an update, without charging you.

All footnotes, endnotes, scripture, and book references, that Logos has, is hyperlinked, so you can read them easily.

Logos is completely searchable, taking hours, and hours, and hours, and even years, off searching hundreds of books by yourself.

The ability of having hundreds, even thousands, of books on an office desk, and even on your lap, making it way, way, easier to transport, and to store, than print books.

George Somsel

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/223580#Comment_223580

Besides that, for me, I so much prefer books in Logos, that I never, ever buy commentaries in paper form any more. Logos is so much more convenient, that I have all my commentaries literally at my finger tips. Further, when I decide to open one, it opens to the exact place where my Bible is open. I can sometimes read 5 commentaries on a single verse before I'm able to walk 2 steps, grab a book and open it to the right page. My time is worth more to me than my money, so for me this is a no brainer.

Anouther advantage to having your library in Logos is that no one can borrow your books then fail to return them. [:D] [Y] [8] [^] [pi] [B]

Rosie Perera

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/223577#Comment_223577

But unless you have a disk with the program so that you can install it on a new machine or under a new OS which isn't compatible running under a VM, how are you to install it?

Download the install program now and burn your own disk of it. Then you'll have it for whenever. And in case CD's become obsolete, save a copy of it somewhere that you'll always have backward compatible access to, e.g., an external hard disk or the cloud. Every time technology changes, we have to keep copying our old stuff up to the new medium or converting it to a new format, but as long as we keep doing that, we won't lose access to it. That chore becomes more and more onerous the more stuff we accumulate that we want permanent access to, though...

Donnie Hale

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/223624#Comment_223624

Download the install program now and burn your own disk of it.

That isn't sufficient since the downloadable installer is just a very small bootstrap. That bootstrap downloads the real (currently) ~46MB installer. That real installer is on purchased DVDs, and it can be found in the right folder for a while. But i really wish they allowed me to download the full installer and run it for upgrades. I'd always do it that way.

Donnie

David Drew

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/223634#Comment_223634

As I see it, the main problem with L4 is that you can't back-up your own licence. If Logos were to go down, there's no-way you can correctly activate your L4 installation, and then go into 'offline mode'.

For that reason, I like to keep a copy of my L3 licences somewhere safe. That way, if Logos were to ever die in the distant future, I could just reinstall L3 into a Win XP virtual machine and work away happily with the bulk of my resources.

Rosie Perera

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/223634#Comment_223634

That isn't sufficient since the downloadable installer is just a very small bootstrap. That bootstrap downloads the real (currently) ~46MB installer. That real installer is on purchased DVDs, and it can be found in the right folder for a while. But i really wish they allowed me to download the full installer and run it for upgrades.

OK, so the geeks among us know how to save the real installer from the temp folder (or wherever it gets put -- I can't remember off the top of my head) for future use. You're right that Logos should make this possibility available to all.

George Somsel

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/223640#Comment_223640

For that reason, I like to keep a copy of my L3 licences somewhere safe. That way, if Logos were to ever die in the distant future, I could just reinstall L3 into a Win XP virtual machine and work away happily with the bulk of my resources.

I have a backup copy on my disk, a backup on a flash drive and another backup stored in my correspondence in my internet account. I'm not paranoid or anything -- WHAT ARE YOU LOOKING AT ? [;)]

Dan Francis

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/223577#Comment_223577

Yes, of course, there would be no updates to the program, no new resources and no corrections to typos, but you would still have access to your resources so long as the program continued to operate, i.e., so long as the OS didn't make it obsolete or you don't trash the program.

There are almost always ways around the end of a program. Virtual machines can often be run to allow for older software to operate in an environment it likes. I think MS offers something called Virtual PC (it already owned the name from when it use to make emulation software for macs). So you can happily have an old OS running in shell window giving you support for running older software. I know personally I run sheepshaver OS 9 emulator to run my New Oxford Annotated library and a few other programs i wouldn't want to be without. I also run a parallels machine with Windows XP to run Foilio and a couple of other windows programs. So advancements in OS can almost always be overcome with a little emulation/ virtual machine.

-Dan

But unless you have a disk with the program so that you can install it on a new machine or under a new OS which isn't compatible running under a VM, how are you to install it?

I always make sure my resources are backed up it is true I don't keep an updated installer of the latest version of the program. But If the Logos went belly up I am quite sure it would be very possible to get a copy of the latest installer and make sure it is saved to a CD.

-Dan

Shawn Drewett

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/223643#Comment_223643

Lol!

Frank Fenby

Right now I am just weighing out the pros and cons of having the logos version vs. the print version of certain sets.

I work among Native Americans who are always in danger of losing print materials. An arctic river delta climate is not paper friendly! The small boats and airplanes we use for travel are prone to capsizing and crashing.The very damp freezing and thawing conditions are death to paper, glue, and electronics. (When you see what it does to houses, you know that books do not stand a chance.)

At our native run seminary there, Logos is essentially a requirement! No matter what happens to their books or computers the person's library is preserved.

Even with the limited Internet access in some villages Logos is a good investment. One may have to wait and bring a laptop to "town" to download the latest updates and new resources but that is a small price to pay for an indestructible library.

Even if Logos were to cease operation it has large enough user base that someone will most likely provide bridge to some sort of replacement.

TCBlack

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/223815#Comment_223815

Even if Logos were to cease operation it has large enough user base that someone will most likely provide bridge to some sort of replacement.

This is a point that Bob himself made quite some time ago when this came up before.

Greg

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/223819#Comment_223819

Couldn't one, if they were so inclined, simply select all the text in a resource, paste it into Word, and save it as a PDF?

While we would still be losing the search capabilities of Logos, at least this way, if Logos were to go under, we would be able to maintain indefinite access to our books apart from Logos Bible Software. With PDF being a much more open standard, it will probably be around a lot longer, or if it does ever go out, programs to convert it to a new standard would probably be available.

Bill Shewmaker

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/223838#Comment_223838

Couldn't one, if they were so inclined, simply select all the text in a resource, paste it into Word, and save it as a PDF?

While we would still be losing the search capabilities of Logos, at least this way, if Logos were to go under, we would be able to maintain indefinite access to our books apart from Logos Bible Software. With PDF being a much more open standard, it will probably be around a lot longer, or if it does ever go out, programs to convert it to a new standard would probably be available.

Going one step further...we could then print out the PDF's and store them in large notebooks on our old bookshelfs that used to house our books.[:D]

Mike Pettit

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/223843#Comment_223843

A niggling worry that I have is that Logos has a business model whereby its continuing solvency relies on people buying new books, however once you have purchased books Logos has a continuing financial commitment in respect of that one off purchase (i.e maintaing its servers, updating resources etc) but in order to fund that commitment Logos has to generate new business.

Therefore if Logos ceases to be popular existing customers will potentially suffer as their expectations in respect of their existing investment are expected to be funded by third parties who may or may not be willing to fund such expenses.

I can see that a contiuing maintenace payment in respect of existing collections would be unpopular but such a structure would be more transparent.

George Somsel

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/223862#Comment_223862

A niggling worry that I have is that Logos has a business model whereby its continuing solvency relies on people buying new books, however once you have purchased books Logos has a continuing financial commitment in respect of that one off purchase (i.e maintaing its servers, updating resources etc) but in order to fund that commitment Logos has to generate new business.

Therefore if Logos ceases to be popular existing customers will potentially suffer as their expectations in respect of their existing investment are expected to be funded by third parties who may or may not be willing to fund such expenses.

I can see that a contiuing maintenace payment in respect of existing collections would be unpopular but such a structure would be more transparent.

Yes, a continuing flow of revenue is an important factor for any business. It is not the case, however, that everyone purchases a fixed number of resources and then ceases buying more. Since I began to use Logos I have purchased over $1,000 worth of resources every year, mostly at prepub prices. I think there are a number of other such as Rosie, Mike Barnes, Ted Hans and, I suspect, Dave Hooten who have purchased more than I since I am fairly selective in my purchases. So long as Logos continues to produce new resources there will be a continuing flow of revenue. Remember "Of making many books there is no end" (Eccl 12.12b). There is no need to take the attitude of Chicken Little and run around announcing that "The sky is falling."

Michael March

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/223922#Comment_223922

Logos should last a long time I think, but permanent is a bit of a stretch.

If you want permanent, you'll have to go with ho logos... [:)]

Let nothing disturb you, let nothing afright you, all things are passing, God never changes.

--St. Teresa of Avila

Rosie Perera

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/223922#Comment_223922

I think there are a number of other such as Rosie, Mike Barnes, Ted Hans and, I suspect, Dave Hooten who have purchased more than I since I am fairly selective in my purchases.

As long as they keep bringing out pre-pubs I will continue spending money to help keep Logos in business. Unlike with my physical library, I don't run out of shelf space in Logos. [:)]

DMB

Well, I for one am concerned about the bears. Just imagine if 40,000 bears attacked Bellingham and one went upstairs at Logos and got the coffeepot. Or what if a Singapore Airlines flight overshot SeaTac, didn't notice, and then took off the roof of Logos' top floor. What if a flock a geese were following I-5 northward after winter and ALL hit the windows of the Logos HQ. Yes ... these could happen and more. (Just joking since I'm usually the worry-wort).

Dan Francis

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/224004#Comment_224004

I think there are a number of other such as Rosie, Mike Barnes, Ted Hans and, I suspect, Dave Hooten who have purchased more than I since I am fairly selective in my purchases.

As long as they keep bringing out pre-pubs I will continue spending money to help keep Logos in business. Unlike with my physical library, I don't run out of shelf space in Logos.

Trying to help too but not too much money is going to be coming from me as most of my pre pub desires are not going into production (there is hope but most of mine are at the almost there point.

-dan

George Somsel

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/224050#Comment_224050

Trying to help too but not too much money is going to be coming from me as most of my pre pub desires are not going into production (there is hope but most of mine are at the almost there point.

The problem is that they seem to come in spurts. When they come, they flood you out.

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/224019#Comment_224019

Yes ... these could happen and more. (Just joking since I'm usually the worry-wort).

Having always deferred worrying to my mother because she's so good at it I'm not an expert. But I think you missed the big one:

Or if you prefer, Ogopogo may migrate over the mountains when the ice caps melt.

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/224063#Comment_224063

Yep .... definitely missed the big one. It just shows how you just can't be too careful with companies located in the northwest!

Mike Tourangeau

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/224094#Comment_224094

What if Logos would create a system where on our account page we could generate an install file plus with our books (one package)...... one where we could update it as we purchase new books.

There would be the concern of piracy but I "think" some security could be devised to overcome this......if a license is purchased (one) then it could be included in this "Doomsday file"

Is this even possible?