Academic Video Series....does it replace going to Camp Logos I? or I and II? No news on price yet..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEgJqcelgiA&feature=uploademail
Because you asked, Dominick, I keyed into one of the last sentences in the video on youtube. Morris says "you, perhaps, can't get to one of our live seminars so we're bringing the training right to you"..
I don't know if that indicates the dvd's for Camp I and Camp II will be ready to purchase in the near future or something else, altogether.
I doubt that Morris will give up the live seminars but this looks like a great supplement to those who can't/won't go to a seminar.
Yes I heard that too Joan, which is why I was wondering if he really meant it as it sounded or was just a general comment that it's another training alternative. I was wondering if this will be considered more, or less comprehensive than either/both of the Camps...
At the recent Camp in London Morris did say the dvds were imminent and mainly to remind/reinforce the camp. Think good alternatives as well but no replacement for the fun and friends you meet at Camp!
Wonder if the DVDs will have the same commercial breaks between each section[:)]
John
was just a general comment that it's another training alternative.
A complimentary alternative.
When I attended Camp Logos I was blown away by the new things I learned. One thing I quickly noticed was how everyone there were more than just attendees, they were participants. Don't get me wrong. none of the "students" hijacked the seminar. Morris Proctor is a wonderful teacher who listens to questions and comments and seizes the teachable moment.
My point here being there is always more to learn. A video resource is best suited for an intense focused study. The ability to review them over and over makes it the best medium for learning imho. The Logos videos Learn to Use Biblical Greek and Hebrew with Logos Bible Software & Learn to Do Word Studies with Logos Bible Software take advantage of this medium. I even propose that having Camp Logos on video would be of great benefit also; just not as a replacement for attending a live Camp Logos.
Given that this is marketed at seminaries, I suspect the price will be very high. Resources that are designed to be shown to the public, or used in a teaching course sometimes run into thousands of dollars. I hope I'm wrong, but that's what it seems like to me.
Resources that are designed to be shown to the public, or used in a teaching course sometimes run into thousands of dollars. I hope I'm wrong, but that's what it seems like to me.
I'm afraid you are right. It appears there is a lot of push in the corporate sales department with PROCLAIM, and now Academic training.videos.
Just when I thought Logos was becoming the software for every bible student whether or not they can abandon their surroundings and go off to seminary. I really wish Logos would continue publishing materials like Foundation of Biblical Ministry (AM Bible Courseware) and the 28 course books from the Berean School of the Bible. and expand their "Academic Training Videos" to include lay preachers, teaching elders and stay-at-home Bible students everywhere.
Given that this is marketed at seminaries,
One more thought: If this were only intended for ivory tower seminaries, why publicize it on utube? It is like running a TV commercial offering a super sale only open to 30 year old redheads named "Jack" (fictitious example here) Everyone else feels alienated. I'm still hoping this will be for everyone.
The needs of a seminarian are going to be rather different than a lay preacher and stay-at-home Bible student. Why shouldn't various video projects reflect that reality?
Are poor congregations less needy of well educated Pastors? While I agree a seminary education is not absolutely necessary for a Spirit-filled, Bible-believing prayer-warrior to feed God's sheep ( John 21:15-17 ), I really think it would be nice to offer them the same equipping of the saints if at all possible.
Bob Pritchett once said of the Community Pricing program, "If everybody ordered a title, it could be produced for $1." I maintain if this new "Academic Training" video is worth it's salt it could benefit everyone. And if everyone bought it, it could be profitable at a much lower price than traditionally high-priced "academic" titles. The many successful Sheffield, T&T Clark, and Baker Academic Pre-pubs prove that theory. I got titles in the 2010 Christmas Master Collection (offered at $1 a piece) that retail for $190 each in a seminary bookstore.
I am not afraid of a housewife or deacon learning how best to make use of the Logos Bible software. In the video Morris says most people only use 5% of the features. If only seminarians can make use of the other 95% how about we defer the "commoners" to a simpler Bible software program. You know the competition does rise to that 5% level in comparison to the capabilities of Logos.
I am not afraid of a housewife or deacon learning how best to make use of the Logos Bible software. Is there now a seminary lobbyist making sales decisions?
I don't think you're being fair. Neither the courseware books you mentioned, nor indeed these videos are produced by Logos. Even if they were, I don't think it would warrant the conclusions you've made, particularly when Logos has invested heavily in a Learn Greek/Hebrew video series which is specifically designed for those not in seminary. They're now following that up with another video with similar aims. You're pointing your gun at the wrong target, I fear.
Are poor congregations less needy of well educated Pastors? While I agree a seminary education is not absolutely necessary for a Spirit-filled, Bible-believing prayer-warrior to feed God's sheep ( John 21:15-17 ), I really think it would be nice to offer them the same equipping of the saints if at all possible. Bob Pritchett once said of the Community Pricing program, "If everybody ordered a title, it could be produced for $1." I maintain if this new "Academic Training" video is worth it's salt it could benefit everyone. And if everyone bought it, it could be profitable at a much lower price than traditionally high-priced "academic" titles. The many Sheffield, T&T Clark, and Baker Academic publications prove that theory. I got titles in the 2010 Christmas Master Collection (offered at $1 a piece) that retail for $190 each in a seminary bookstore. I am not afraid of a housewife or deacon learning how best to make use of the Logos Bible software. Is there now a seminary lobbyist making sales decisions? (Reminds me of how the AMA views Doctors of Osteopathy. But I don't expect a labor union to act any differently.)
Bob Pritchett once said of the Community Pricing program, "If everybody ordered a title, it could be produced for $1." I maintain if this new "Academic Training" video is worth it's salt it could benefit everyone. And if everyone bought it, it could be profitable at a much lower price than traditionally high-priced "academic" titles. The many Sheffield, T&T Clark, and Baker Academic publications prove that theory. I got titles in the 2010 Christmas Master Collection (offered at $1 a piece) that retail for $190 each in a seminary bookstore.
I am not afraid of a housewife or deacon learning how best to make use of the Logos Bible software. Is there now a seminary lobbyist making sales decisions? (Reminds me of how the AMA views Doctors of Osteopathy. But I don't expect a labor union to act any differently.)
I agree, every congregation should have a well-educated pastor. What I mean is that the academic setting has many different rationales for studying the Bible. Some want to go on to write highly technical dissertations and commentaries and others want to serve in pastoral ministry. I view the offering of the different video packages as letting someone decide how "deep" they want to study the Bible and use Logos accordingly. There are parts of technical, academic work that most people will just not have time to reproduce. It's not a matter of them being less educated in Bible study but that we cannot buy or study everything. We all have to focus are time and money in some way.
I take a slightly different take from Mark on this. I expect that it will be affordable (albeit expensive) in that students are mentioned in the video as people who might want to buy the videos. I know as an undergrad it was a stretch to get Scholar's. For this video to be successful I would think they would have to make it affordable for full time students (at least for private viewing only). I suppose we'll have to wait for this to show up to know how much it will cost [:)].
A student/professor who knows how to use Logos well will be one that buys more books and encourages others to get it as well... at least that's my experience.
I don't think you're being fair. Neither the courseware books you mentioned, nor indeed these videos are produced by Logos.
I guess I was confused by the fact it is publicized on the Logos Youtube channel by the authorized Logos trainer.
There are alternatives for the stay-at-home Bible students. John Fallahee should also be featured on the Logos Youtube channel as the authorized trainer for non-seminarians.
Logos wants to be aggressive in marketing to seminarians and Bible colleges. One obstacle is getting students up to speed quickly in using Logos. Many seminaries and Bible colleges might want students to use Logos but don't have the resources or feel the calling to train students in how to use it. That is where these videos come in. All the seminary of college has to do it provide a room, and a projection system. Logos provides everything else. If I were Logos I'd supply a copy of this free to every school that is on the academic pricing program. I'd likewise make copies very inexpensive for students who want their own copies.
This is an investment in a fertile market for Logos. It is good to see these are being done professionally and by someone as good at it as Mo is. Thumbs up!
I view the offering of the different video packages as letting someone decide how "deep" they want to study the Bible and use Logos accordingly.
Are you saying that offer should only be on the table for people who can afford to go off to seminary? Several of the MVPs are not able to do that as well as 90% of the Logos user base. Why not give everyone the chance?
It's not a matter of them being less educated in Bible study
We are not talking about content here. The promo video says this will teach users HOW TO use the features & tools of the Logos program. Is the software is too complicated for commoners to learn?
we cannot buy or study everything. We all have to focus are time and money in some way.
Logos already offers a standing academic discount of 25% to seminary students. The best discounts for non-seminary students is 20% on the base packages. If a lay person is financially unable to leave their job and attend seminary while feeding their family, they get "rewarded" with higher base packages and told they don't need training to make best use of their investment.
I do not attend seminary. I do not buy from the Academic department. I own: Portfolio Edition, 2010 Master Collection, NICOT/NICNT, Barth, Calvin 500, Spurgeon Collection, Hermeneia, WBC, Zondervan Bundles 1&2, Anchor Yale Bible, Ultimate Archaeology Collection, works of Warfield, Carson & Lenski. Not to mention 14 + Logos t-shirts. And because I am not a seminary student I don't need to know how to make use of the other 95% of my software?
Well at least the other 90% of the user base has John Fallahee to fall back on.
Matthew,
Sorry, friend, but no-one is saying what you think they're saying. No-one is suggesting that non-seminary users shouldn't be trained in the use of Logos, or that Logos is only for seminary students, or anything close to it.
Mark
Matthew, Sorry, friend, but no-one is saying what you think they're saying. No-one is suggesting that non-seminary users shouldn't be trained in the use of Logos, or that Logos is only for seminary students, or anything close to it. Mark
Are you saying this will be made available to ALL Logos users? If that is the case it should made clear in the publicity campaign.
QUESTION: Are we talking about this? http://www.logos.com/academic/learnlogos
Or is this Morris video on youtube a NEW series of videos?
Like you, I have no idea. I'm don't even think the 'publicity campaign' has started.
Are you saying this will be made available to ALL Logos users? If that is the case it should made clear in the publicity campaign. QUESTION: Are we talking about this? http://www.logos.com/academic/learnlogos Or is this Morris video on youtube a NEW series of videos?
I think this is a new series of videos that hasn't hit the pre-pub page yet.
The series you linked to was for Libronix.
Regarding your earlier response, I think you've miss-understood me, I'll do my best to clarify succinctly.
My point is simply this. Due to the constraints of interest or ability not everyone will want to use Logos to its fullest potential. Ideally there should be basic, intermediate, and advanced training options so that people can get from Logos what they want/need. Hopefully this academic video set will fill a need for advanced training. Those in an academic setting are more likely to want to use advanced features but they by no means have a monopoly on such things. I hope this new series is affordable for all.
If you want to hash this out more drop me an email, I'll be glad to speak in more depth.
Something everyone should keep in mind is this: There are a growing number of seminaries and Bible departments at colleges that are requiring the purchase of Logos. Grace School of Theology in Houston, TX is one example. When students enter their program, they must purchase Logos, getting it at a discounted price.
It looks to me like this video series is intended for that market.
30 year old redheads named "Jack" (fictitious example here)
Jack is not a redhead, but his wife is. She is a little older than 30, but this must be for me. [:D]
Watching the video, I had a different impression from that most of you have expressed. I purchased the Camp Logos I & II videos form L3. I had the impression that this was to be a similar product. The menu shown in the video seems to support this. Those videos were merely recordings of the regular Camp Logos presentations.
I have read posts far beyond the one I quoted, but I could not pass up on the redheaded Jack comment. [H]
Although I graduated from seminary, I am very strong in my belief about making bible study available to as many people as possible and with a product as robost as Logos, I would hope that video training is made affordable for everyone and not just those that have a "congregation" to finance them so that all Logos users can indeed learn to use the other 95% of the software
Before I took on the privilege of ministry I was in a job which paid more than I receive now so I would have been able to finance my purchases of Logos software much more easily.
The fact that I didn't was more to do with the fact that I didn't devote the time to study which required the use of such software. I had bought different packages but never used them to any significant degree.
I wish I had started using this software sooner to deepen my understanding of God's word but that's another story!
Graham
30 year old redheads named "Jack" (fictitious example here) Jack is not a redhead, but his wife is
Jack is not a redhead, but his wife is
My Dad & Father-in-Law had red hair, 3 of my siblings, 6 of my children, and 2 of my grand-children. I gotta be careful what I say. [:#]
My grand-son (L) and my youngest son (R)
And to keep with the purpose of the forums:I want to be able to buy these new videos without having to leave my grand-kids behind and go off to seminary!These two little guys belong together.
I am unable to attend the Camp 1 session at any point this year due to scheduling conflicts. A few weeks ago, I remembered how MP created videos of Camp 1 and 2 for the Logos 3 software and I hoped they would consider this option again. It's so frustrating to know that I've spent over $7,000 on the software and resources, in the last 6 years, but still have not even cracked the first layer of the program.
It is my prayer that the videos are affordable and will help me delve deeper into the software. However, I'm always reminded that I can be an advanced or master user of the software, but if I have not love in my heart, then it's all in vain. Hey, can you tell I'm going home for the next two weeks to spend time with old friends and extended/estranged/distant/etc. family. Love, Jesus said love.....
Whew, I feel so much better! Now, back to the videos, I hope they are released real soon.
Blessings,
Christina
Hi Cristina,
I spoke to Shannon of Morris Proctor seminars a week ago and she said the dvd's of Camp Logos for L 4 will be ready in 6-8 weeks. FYI [:)]
At the point where the lessons list was being shown the viewer was requested to watch all in order the first time and then to watch the needed lesson as needed [not a direct quote] Implies each student will have their own copy [implies low cost] [Or that the series will be on the School network]
[Did I see a section where we were told that the lessons would be download-able - see 1:10 [re watch lesson] and 2:30 [load to hard drive] time reference in Vidieo]
At the point where the lessons list was being shown the viewer was requested to watch all in order the first time and then to watch the needed lesson as needed [not a direct quote] Implies each student will have their own copy [implies low cost] [Or that the series will be on the School network] [Did I see a section where we were told that the lessons would be download-able - see 1:10 [re watch lesson] and 2:30 [load to hard drive] time reference in Vidieo]
A lot of "brick and mortar" colleges and universities have courseware hosted on their school servers and only down-loadable by currently enrolled students. While I am very happy this material will be available to traditional school enrollees, I hope the videos will also be offered to individuals everywhere.
I hope the videos will also be offered to individuals everywhere.
+1 [Y]
Add priced within reach of many users! Lower the price and get many of sales.
I hope the videos will also be offered to individuals everywhere. +1 Add priced within reach of many users! Lower the price and get many of sales.
+1
Ditto +1 [Y]
When I went to the compare pericope section of this link the material was (a) free and (b) for Libronix 3. May I say this whole thread has left me confused.
For further or clarification of information.
Yes, MP did have Camp Logos I and I think Camp Logos II out for Libronix L-3. In December when they were in Phx, Az. It seemed they mentioned getting a DVD of Camp Logos I made when they were starting to put Camp Logos II together for Logos L-4. I would expect this DVD coming in 6-8 weeks to be a camp I. and in a year or so I would expect a Camp II DVD to come out. As I recall the DVD's were the same price as the actual training.
What is the difference between the content on the Logos Live DVD and the Academic Logos DVD?
Hopefully this academic video set will fill a need for advanced training. Those in an academic setting are more likely to want to use advanced features but they by no means have a monopoly on such things. I hope this new series is affordable for all.
I was told by a knowable source [:)] that it is several hours longer. That is all I know. I do not know the differences.
there is a thread somewhere out here where this question was discussed and finally answered through Logos and/or MP employess. I seem to remember that both are identical, but the academic version is cut into smaller snippets (say 10 min) to facilitate teachers showing them as discussion starters/summaries/etc. If I'm not mistaken, the message was that it is pointless to buy both sets.
Mick
there is a thread somewhere out here where this question was discussed and finally answered through Logos and/or MP employess. I seem to remember that both are identical, but the academic version is cut into smaller snippets (say 10 min) to facilitate teachers showing them as discussion starters/summaries/etc.
There are several threads but I can't find them either. I am probably the one guilty of promoting the "no difference but video length" description. When we finally did get official answers (there was one from a Logos employee and another from an MP Seminars rep) they said there was a small amount of content included in the Academic training that was not in the "personal" edition. It had to do with things students need to know to help them use Logos in the pursuit degree requirements. They mentioned citing references in footnotes.
I doubt I write another thesis or a first dissertation but I would still like to have the info available.
It makes more sense to me for a student to buy the Academic Training DVDs. The price is cheaper while it is still in Pre-Pub and they get more training.
At the point where the lessons list was being shown the viewer was requested to watch all in order the first time and then to watch the needed lesson as needed [not a direct quote] Implies each student will have their own copy [implies low cost] [Or that the series will be on the School network] [Did I see a section where we were told that the lessons would be download-able - see 1:10 [re watch lesson] and 2:30 [load to hard drive] time reference in Video]
[Did I see a section where we were told that the lessons would be download-able - see 1:10 [re watch lesson] and 2:30 [load to hard drive] time reference in Video]
Price is $219.95 Pre-Pub and ship date is listed as 6/8/2011 - said to be used in class
How is this licensed? Per user as all others? OR per teacher for use by entire class on a class server?
Right before I purchased Camp Logos Live DVDs I learned from Morris Proctor Seminars the Academic Training is a product of Logos while the Camp Logos Live is a product of MP Seminars. Without worrying why and "what does it matter?" (- I figured it out.) I am only concerned with one particular. I want the "extra" training the Academic DVDs include that the personal training does not. I did buy the Camp Logos Live DVDs because I knew how good they would be. I am not disappointed at all. I'm very happy I got them and I recommend them to others. If only the Academic Training DVDs could be offered at a special price for those who have purchased the personal training. (Yes, I know. The Pre-Pub price IS a special price. It is just hard to sell myself on $219 for only a net gain of one more hour of training.) Training videos are not locked by the software license so Logos can not be sure an "upgraded" DVD won't end up being resold. I'm not wanting to part with them. I want BOTH sets.
Same here. I've completed the Camp Logos Live DVD's and were very pleased with them. I'm not in an academic setting and doubt I will ever be, but if there was a significant price break on the Academic Set for those who own the Camp Logos Live set, I would buy it for the addition training.
David Ames asked: How is this licensed? Per user as all others? OR per teacher for use by entire class on a class server?
Got this reply from Logos:
Hi,
I just wanted to touch base with you with additional info on the Logos Academic Training video. If you have any questions or are interested in using this in a class, please contact me.
We have created the curriculum for a one credit hour class called Logos Academic Training. The two DVD’s provide over 8 hours of training with lessons approximately 10 minutes long. This is designed to be a stand alone class, or to be integrated into a Bible Study Methods/Hermeneutics class, to train students how to use Logos for more effective Bible study. Morris Proctor, a very gifted teacher who has taught Logos to thousands over the last several years, produced this for use as a textbook for the classroom.
This will be available at an Academic Discount of $144.50 for any faculty who would like a more detailed systematic training. This is more complete than his DVD on Camp Logos. Faculty can use this as a springboard for ideas to use in the classroom, but the disk can not be displayed or projected for demonstration in a class unless all the students are required to have a copy as a textbook. If it is made a required textbook for all the students in a class, then the cost would be $50 each and we would give the faculty teaching the class a ‘desk copy’ at no charge. We are working on a proficiency test to be able to test students on how well they have learned the basic features and functions of Logos and hope to have that ready in the fall. We will also be working sample class assignments for each lesson and make them available on a web site accessible only to faculty.
Thank You,
Dave
[I read that as the cost per student is $50 - David from Logos did not mention minimum class size] [Logos price is $220 - I wonder how many they would sell at $50 each?]
Dave -
My understanding of the email you posted is that this offer is available to educational institutions (i.e. seminaries) which are requiring this as a text book. If the class has 20 students, they will sell 20 copies. This offer is not likely to be made available to other groups (i.e. a sunday school class). The big discount comes only to accredited educational institutions which REQUIRE Logos, and this resource, in the classroom.
Also, I don't think Logos meant for you to publish this on the forums.
Justin
