EEC = Blind Faith?

I have been thinking about the new Logos EEC, and I have decided one must have blind faith to purchase this commentary that is not scheduled to be completed until 2019???

I think the price needs to be much more aggressive on the Pre-Pub ($399) in-order to make appealing enough.

Please help me, and show me that my thinking is wrong?

Blessings,

Mike

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Friedrich

I have been thinking about the new Logos EEC, and I have decided one must have blind faith to purchase this commentary that is not scheduled to be completed until 2019???

I think the price needs to be much more aggressive on the Pre-Pub ($399) in-order to make appealing enough.

Please help me, and show me that my thinking is wrong?

Blessings,

Mike

Mike, this thread has a few posts by Logos VP Dan Pritchett, (as opposed to "MVP", such as me, which means, I think, that I am MORE valuable than the "other Dan." Or . . . .maybe not [:P])

Yes, we users want it more cheaply. But Logos is putting out a bundle of money to complete this project that someone else started--and had essentially died (the project, not the someone else), and Logos picked it up, added their electronic publishing prowess, and PRESTO--we have something that has never been tried before: a digitally produced commentary set that (to varying degrees) takes advantage of Logos' unique features. The current pricing structure is to help them keep this going.

As for "blind faith"--yeah, it is, but unless THEY tank--if the project tanks for some unforeseen reason, then I don't think Logos would keep all our cash.

here is another thread with many different views represented.

Steve Robinson

Please help me, and show me that my thinking is wrong?

Mike -

Like a LOT of things about business and product pricing, it's not often a matter of "right and wrong." As the comment Dan Pritchett made in the post "the other Dan" (above) referenced, this is Logos' plan as they explore uncharted territory. I accept that it's a strategic decision, even a "strategic risk" as Dan P. readily admits in his comments. I also accept them it sincere and well thought out. Whether I want to "step out in faith" in exchange for a price discount is my decision, as it is your decision. It's not like they are only agreeing to sell it to people if they commit by March 31st or June 30th or whatever, and no one else can purchase it at a later date. (A cake and cake consumption analogy comes to mind.) If you feel uncomfortable making the purchase decision now, (what you call lacking "faith"), fine... wait. You'll probably be in good company. That neither makes your thinking "right" or "wrong." It just makes it your personal choice.

For what it's worth.

Steve R.

MJD

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/230510#Comment_230510

I think it would be neat to watch this thing get marketed with an
escalating price structure. The price goes up gradually up as each and
every book is released. Simultaneously, the risk goes down because now we see the goods. And if the goods are indeed great the demand will still be great, if the goods are not good the demand will go down.[:)]

My thoughts are paralleled to business start ups, the early on investor in a company gets their stocks at a much lower cost per share. This is because there is a much greater reward for the risk of getting in early. I agree people can take the wait and see...

But, my thoughts are, if you want to get significant funding upfront, up the ante... and lower the Pre-pub price for the early investors...

Mike

Kent Maitland

Michael,

From the standpoint of scholarly contribution, I'd say this is looking to be one of the finest evangelical commentary sets out there. Logos did quite a good job in pairing each author with what is generally their own field of expertise. For example, Eugene Merrill has done quite a bit of work in Deuteronomy, as has Bill Barrick with Genesis. I could easily list others out of those who are slated to contribute that are literally the perfect fit for the books they are assigned to.

From the standpoint of layout, I think you may be on to something. It is hard to work up the motivation to dish out as much money as they're asking for on a commentary set that you've never seen. If it were up to me, I would make it a cross between ICC (not the old archaic volumes, but the more recent) and NIC. What they're anticipating is still unclear.

Ultimately, my decision to not dish out the money has to do with the massive commentary collection already available in my arsenal. There comes a point where commentary reading can be a little redundant. Just having maybe 3 good ones suffices for me.

Joe

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/230533#Comment_230533

Michael,

From the standpoint of scholarly contribution, I'd say this is looking to be one of the finest evangelical commentary sets out there. Logos did quite a good job in pairing each author with what is generally their own field of expertise. For example, Eugene Merrill has done quite a bit of work in Deuteronomy, as has Bill Barrick with Genesis. I could easily list others out of those who are slated to contribute that are literally the perfect fit for the books they are assigned to.

From the standpoint of layout, I think you may be on to something. It is hard to work up the motivation to dish out as much money as they're asking for on a commentary set that you've never seen. If it were up to me, I would make it a cross between ICC (not the old archaic volumes, but the more recent) and NIC. What they're anticipating is still unclear.

Ultimately, my decision to not dish out the money has to do with the massive commentary collection already available in my arsenal. There comes a point where commentary reading can be a little redundant. Just having maybe 3 good ones suffices for me.

I'd tend to agree that the scholarship behind this is tremendous. I know some of these profs and would eagerly read what they write. But yes, I wish the pre-pub would be cheaper for those who really want to take the jump...

DAL

I'm not saying I wouldn't order it, but I'd rather try to add some other O.T. commentaries to my library. I have plenty of great N.T. commentaries and some that I'm planning on completing if the rest of the volumes ever make it to Logos are: NIGTC, BECNT and Pillars. Meanwhile, I'll try to focus my finances on O.T. especially the Hermeneia O.T. volumes. From what I've read in reviews those can be more useful than the some what out dated N.T. Hermeneia volumes.

Hopefully Logos will make EEC available as separate sets some day O.T. and N.T.

Blessings!

Douglas

MJD

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/230566#Comment_230566

I am reading another post about the EEC and the debate is heating up. All of the EEC concern can be summed up by the fear of the "unknown", we as humans tend to get anxious about the unknown.

TCBlack

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/230568#Comment_230568

All of the EEC concern can be summed up by the fear of the "unknown", we as humans tend to get anxious about the unknown.

I think you've nailed it on the head. Even though I've already ordered I'm just waiting for a few screenshots or PDF's or something of the first chapter, frontmatter, etc.

MJD

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/230695#Comment_230695

All of the EEC concern can be summed up by the fear of the "unknown", we as humans tend to get anxious about the unknown.
I think you've nailed it on the head. Even though I've already ordered I'm just waiting for a few screenshots or PDF's or something of the first chapter, frontmatter, etc.

"Hope" is what we relish, and our faith in or lack thereof is the qestion. Do we have the faith in our fellow mankind that we need in order to buy into the EEC -- before it has even been seen?

Good intentions riddle the world!

Faith, Hope and Love. Isn't ironic, that in life and (thought of)eternal life we still really rely on our Faith, Hope, and Love....

mab

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/230699#Comment_230699

I'm not yet hooked on the lure of EEC as I still want to get WBC first to replace the print volumes I have. But I think Logos is a sufficiently savvy company to be able to handle the undertaking. I wouldn't have ponied up as much as I already have if I thought they were going to drop the ball. A portion of the business is pre-publication. So I think most of us Logosians are already drinking from a well with a promised future.

Eric Weiss

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/230918#Comment_230918

I sent the following email today to suggest@logos.com as that is where the Sales person said I should send it:

Dear Logos:

I and many others have been under the impression that
when the Evangelical Exegetical Commentary series was announced for
pre-pub, we read or were told that we'd be able to see a preview prior
to it being shipped as a further way of helping us decide if we want to
purchase it.

According to Logos Sales, though, it will be shipped on June 1
with NO preview. If we don't like what we see, we can call and cancel
our order for this, per the Logos return policy, but there won't be any
seeing of any parts of it prior to when it ships.

There's a lot
of discussion about the EEC and this in the Forum, and I think you
should do a Logos Blog post very soon explaining if there is going to be
an opportunity to preview some samples before it ships, or if that
isn't going to
happen.

Thanks!

Kent Hendricks

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/231209#Comment_231209

Eric,

We will be making previews of the Evangelical Exegetical Commentary available very, very soon. The first volumes are beginning to come in, and we'll make sure you get the chance to preview some of the contents before we ship.

We also have plans to blog more about the EEC as we near the ship date to give you a better idea of what the set is about. Look for more on the blog in the next couple weeks.

Kent

Edwin Bowden

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/231299#Comment_231299

We will be making previews of the Evangelical Exegetical Commentary available very, very soon. The first volumes are beginning to come in, and we'll make sure you get the chance to preview some of the contents before we ship.

We also have plans to blog more about the EEC as we near the ship date to give you a better idea of what the set is about. Look for more on the blog in the next couple weeks.

Kent

Kent,

Glad to hear that previews are coming soon. It's less than 2 weeks to the deadline to order at the best price. We need the info before the order dealine--not the publication date.

People have been getting nervous about not seeing any response from Logos over the last 7 months about the approach, content, format and details of the series. You cannot expect people to commit without something concrete to see.

Eric Weiss

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/231321#Comment_231321

Kent,
Glad to hear that previews are coming soon. It's less than 2 weeks to the deadline to order at the best price. We need the info before the order dealine--not the publication date.

People have been getting nervous about not seeing any response from Logos over the last 7 months about the approach, content, format and details of the series. You cannot expect people to commit without something concrete to see.

Edwin: Order it now at $699.95 so you're locked in at the best price. Pick the best payment plan for you. Before it ships on June 1 you will have seen some previews; you can always then decide to opt out. Even after that, if you stay in and get it June 1 when it ships and don't like it or don't think 43 others like it are worth $700, then cancel and get a complete refund by July 1, I suspect. You have nothing to lose by signing up now, as you won't get charged until it ships, and even after that you'll have 30 days or so to decided to stay in or get out. You gain nothing by waiting until after March 31, or so it seems to me.

Justin Cofer

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/231340#Comment_231340

I agree with Eric; if anybody is even half way considering it. Lock in now. There's no obligation. You can cancel before the first one ships this summer (which is when you will get charged).

I talked to my salesman, David Jones, and he said that they're going to be flexible on this. If you get a few volumes and HATE it; Logos will refund your money. It's no a lose scenario.

Edwin Bowden

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/231356#Comment_231356

I agree with Eric; if anybody is even half way considering it. Lock in now. There's no obligation. You can cancel before the first one ships this summer (which is when you will get charged).

I talked to my salesman, David Jones, and he said that they're going to be flexible on this. If you get a few volumes and HATE it; Logos will refund your money. It's no a lose scenario.

It's interesting that Logos has not given that info with its promotion of the set.

TCBlack

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/231299#Comment_231299

Eric,

We will be making previews of the Evangelical Exegetical Commentary available very, very soon. The first volumes are beginning to come in, and we'll make sure you get the chance to preview some of the contents before we ship.

We also have plans to blog more about the EEC as we near the ship date to give you a better idea of what the set is about. Look for more on the blog in the next couple weeks.

Kent

Thanks Kent.

It seems we all need a bit of reassurance on the previews.

I will wait.

Rene Atchley

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/231478#Comment_231478

A 5-year plan to buy a set of commentaries...really..[:|]. While I understand that I don't quite see the ultimate positive side of this plan, and I am sure others will help me with that, but a 5-year plan. That's just shy of a home loan.

Jack Caviness

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/231483#Comment_231483

but a 5-year plan. That's just shy of a home loan.

That would be a small home, a huge down payment, or a crushing monthly mortgage [8-|] Even Auto loans can go up to 72 months now.

However, I agree that a 5 year payment plan does seem like a long-term commitment. I'm debating still.

Eric Weiss

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/231483#Comment_231483

A 5-year plan to buy a set of commentaries...really... While I understand that I don't quite see the ultimate positive side of this plan, and I am sure others will help me with that, but a 5-year plan. That's just shy of a home loan.

Would to God my home loan payment cost just $699.95 per month, let alone a total of $699.95 with no interest, as is being offered by Logos. I view it as a 44-room house you fully own that you get to move into one room at a time over an 8-year period, with the option to cancel the sale after living in the first room or few, if you so desire. [:)]

TCBlack

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/231483#Comment_231483

A 5-year plan to buy a set of commentaries...really... While I understand that I don't quite see the ultimate positive side of this plan, and I am sure others will help me with that, but a 5-year plan. That's just shy of a home loan.

Here's an item to consider, though I'm only stating it as a thought - not an actionable plan on my part....

take your $17 /month payment to the end of this year in order to get out of this year's book budget waters - then once you're convinced you won't be asking for a refund, call up Logos January 2012 and pay off the balance thus eliminating much of the handling fees.

Matthew C Jones

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/231510#Comment_231510

If we were discussing futures commodities a 5 year lock @ $17 per month for this level of commentary would be good. I hate to guess what we will be paying for

gasoline in 5 years.

I am still debating. (I already know I want the content.)

to get out of this year's book budget

Book budget? What is that? I just call it a bank account.

TCBlack

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/231523#Comment_231523

http://wiki.logos.com/media.aspx

Book budget? What is that? I just call it a bank account.

It is the annualized amount I can get away with spending before Mrs. Black gets upset. [:p]

For a better explanation and for hints and means to establishing one: The Pastor's Library - Book Budgeting, Library Development, and Quality Recommendations

Lonnie Ritchie

Michael, I fully concur with your conclusion. That's too much investment up front and too lengthy a time to wait for the other books. The pre-pub price is far too high to encourage making that investment in time and money.

Lonnie Ritchie

Matthew C Jones

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/231614#Comment_231614

Hey! I just went back and took a better look at the payment plan options for the Evangelical Exegetical Commentary There are some real interesting details in that chart. Because the $5 account servicing charge is only charged per payment transaction the balances get interesting.

Aside from an early demise or the Lord returning before the payment plan obligation is fulfilled, I do not see why most users could not afford to place an order for this. And if the Lord does return during the 5 year payment plan, I suspect the series won't get completed. [;)]

Lookin' better all the time.............

[8]"Saint Peter don't you call me 'cause I can't go,
I owe my soul to the Logos store................"[8] ---- adapted from "16 Tons" by Tennessee Ernie Ford

Dean J. Ferguson

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/231798#Comment_231798

I am seeking some security of less than an eternal nature. As the release of the EEC is approaching I am developing a case of cold feet and would like some handholding to stick with it.

I intend to be in for the duration based on the apparent value of the authors chosen and the purpose of the set. I deeply appreciate the payment plan options offered by Logos with sincere gratitude and plan to take advantage of the offer.

However, I have two concerns.

1. Will the project be able to meet with its intended plan? There are many volumes that are presently TBA. This is understandable, but it is less than certain for a delivery date. It is difficult to control all of the factors that can delay an author from completing the manuscript, but I assume that the publishing business already recognizes this when the announce a project and can anticipate some of this in their projected schedule. I wonder about print sets that have stretched out over an extended time. An example would be the NICNT or NICOT. Some of the volumes have yet to set the light of day, while some of the volumes have been revised before others have been published. If my memory serves me correctly the original release date for an EEC volume was April 2011. That is no longer the case. For Bible students of a certain age, waiting ten years for a set to be completed will be quite different than the potential for waiting for a possible forty years to see the finished project. I may unfortunately be dating myself at this point with my concern.

2. With the notion of electronic publishing and it freeing an author from unnecessary size limitations and the ability to fully comment of the text, comes the possibility of easy revision in response to reviews or calls for further clarification. After investing in the set at the beginning,what will happen when a revision becomes available? Will all revisions be considered part of a free upgrade until the set is complete? Or will it be necessary to purchase the revision before the purchase of the original set is complete?

If anyone has any wisdom or secret knowledge and would like to share it, I would be interested in hearing it. My intention is to remain secure until the end, but with the approaching finality of my decision I could use any helping hand.

TCBlack

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/232455#Comment_232455

With the notion of electronic publishing and it freeing an author from unnecessary size limitations and the ability to fully comment of the text, comes the possibility of easy revision in response to reviews or calls for further clarification. After investing in the set at the beginning,what will happen when a revision becomes available? Will all revisions be considered part of a free upgrade until the set is complete? Or will it be necessary to purchase the revision before the purchase of the original set is complete?

This is a good question, but I unfortunately have no further γνωσις to offer you.

Matthew C Jones

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/232455#Comment_232455

Will all revisions be considered part of a free upgrade until the set is complete? Or will it be necessary to purchase the revision before the purchase of the original set is complete?

Good question indeed. This has not been addressed by Logos. I have no insider information on it and doubt the "insiders" have the answer either. With your forward-thinking we just might get this question considered and answered.

In the other multi-author sets that span years to complete we have seen it go both ways. Sometimes the revised volumes are given to users who hold a license to the first edition while new purchasers only get the new volume. The "old" volumes might be offered for purchase to new buyers if enough demand for them exists and the contracts with copyright holders allow them . On a couple occasions the new titles just get added to the collection for free.

Since none of us knows the future it should be expected one or two of the volumes will not be completed by the assigned authors due to an appointment with God. I will not hold that against Logos so long as they get someone a lot smarter than myself to complete the commentaries. [:^)]

[li] ....right now, in OKC we hear the beautiful sounds of Spring T-storms outside [C]

nicky crane

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/232758#Comment_232758

"Aside from an early demise": I've written into my will that my Logos account should be transferred to a theological student, at the discretion of my friend and solkicitor. Following Rosie's example. So I can order books to my heart's content, as they will go on to benefit someone else. Better leave in my willan instruction that Logos should be paid off for outstanding orders.....

I think original shipping date for first volume was estimated in February 2011.