I have signed up for this pre-pub, how many hours of training are included for the $199.95 price tag?
The cost is $199.95 for this DVD, I am hopping Mr. Proctor's DVD is worth the price tag???
how many hours of training are included for the $199.95 price tag?
From the product description page:
I have attended Camp Logos and it costs $225 live, plus your travel/lodging expenses. It's all excellent material but is exhausting to try to take it all in within the space of two days. Having the DVD at home to go through at your own pace, and be able to watch over and over again seems like it would definitely be worth the price. Go for it!
I was hoping there would be more than 7 hours of training for $200 on the DVD. This training cost more than $28 an hour for the DVD training.
The live Logos training session is almost 2 full days (13 hours of scheduled training) for $225, plus you get to ask questions.
The scale of economies by recording a DVD would make you think they could sell the DVD training much cheaper than live training.
Is there going to be a forum available for any questions for the instructor that may come from watching this training DVD?
It's 13 hours scheduled, but that includes a long lunch break (1.5 hrs, if I recall) both days and several shorter breaks in morning and afternoon, no more than about one hour to 75 min of teaching at a time without a break, so it's probably closer to 7-8 hours of actual content, some of which was welcome, logistical info, thanks to hosts, etc., which would have been edited out for the DVDs.I'm pretty sure you're getting the full instructional content of a live Camp Logos training seminar in this.
True, you can ask questions in the live seminar. This forum offers you the ability to ask questions for free, though.
Yes, one would think. On the other hand tens of thousands of people have attended the live seminars and there are some economies of scale there, too (about 100 people at a time can listen). Perhaps they aren't sure they'll sell that many DVDs and need to recoup the cost of the video recording (equipment and personnel), and editing.
The Logos 4 forum would probably be the place to ask any questions that arise from the DVDs. If you have questions that are more specific to Morris Proctor's seminar in particular that a general Logos expert couldn't answer, you can email him at morris (at) mpseminars (dot) com.
The live Logos training session is almost 2 full days (13 hours of scheduled training) for $225, plus you get to ask questions. It's 13 hours scheduled, but that includes a long lunch break (1.5 hrs, if I recall) both days and several shorter breaks in morning and afternoon, no more than about one hour to 75 min of teaching at a time without a break, so it's probably closer to 7-8 hours of actual content, some of which was welcome, logistical info, thanks to hosts, etc., which would have been edited out for the DVDs.I'm pretty sure you're getting the full instructional content of a live Camp Logos training seminar in this. True, you can ask questions in the live seminar. This forum offers you the ability to ask questions for free, though. The scale of economies by recording a DVD would make you think they could sell the DVD training much cheaper than live training. Yes, one would think. On the other hand tens of thousands of people have attended the live seminars and there are some economies of scale there, too (about 100 people at a time can listen). Perhaps they aren't sure they'll sell that many DVDs and need to recoup the cost of the video recording (equipment and personnel), and editing. Is there going to be a forum available for any questions for the instructor that may come from watching this training DVD? The Logos 4 forum would probably be the place to ask any questions that arise from the DVDs. If you have questions that are more specific to Morris Proctor's seminar in particular that a general Logos expert couldn't answer, you can email him at morris (at) mpseminars (dot) com.
I appreciate the forum so much, I have had many questions answered. Thank YOU...This is awesome! I also really love the video's Mark Barnes has for all of us to use.
But, in regards to the item for sale... The DVD trainings set.... just seems to be priced very high.
I appreciate the forum so much, I have had many questions answered. Thank YOU...This is awesome!
You're welcome, and thank you! [:)]
Yup, I agree. You seem to have taken the plunge anyway, though. I hope you find it worth the expenditure. I'm not buying it since I already attended the live seminar, but I probably would otherwise.
You can always cancel your order up to the last minute if you change your mind after learning enough from the forums and Mark's videos to be sufficiently competent with Logos.
But, in regards to the item for sale... The DVD trainings set.... just seems to be priced very high. Yup, I agree. You seem to have taken the plunge anyway, though. I hope you find it worth the expenditure. I'm not buying it since I already attended the live seminar, but I probably would otherwise. You can always cancel your order up to the last minute if you change your mind after learning enough from the forums and Mark's videos to be sufficiently competent with Logos.
Whenever you have the same content (Logos training) you don't want to price them too differently otherwise the cheaper option might crowd out the more expensive one. I' guessing that the training video cost is designed to be similar in cost to attending a Camp Logos so that attendance is not hurt by this set's availability.
Granted, I don't know how much it cost to produces and replicate the DVDs so I could easily be wrong. [:)]
I previously purchased Camp Logos I & II for L3 ($200 each). I found them to be well worth the price as I had never attended a live session. They videos were recordings of live sessions.
This training cost more than $28 an hour for the DVD training. The live Logos training session is almost 2 full days (13 hours of scheduled training) for $225, plus you get to ask questions.… I was hoping there would be more than 7 hours of training for $200 on the DVD.
The live Logos training session is almost 2 full days (13 hours of scheduled training) for $225, plus you get to ask questions.… I was hoping there would be more than 7 hours of training for $200 on the DVD.
As Rosie noted, the live session is actually about 7-8 hours of actual course content spread over 2 days.
I'm sure they could, but they chose not to do so, probably so as not to hurt attendance at the live sessions. (I believe Kevin already said something similar.
There are always these forums for questions.
Rosie noted that if she had not attended a live session she would probably order the videos. I attended one of the first L4 Camp Logos (In NC), and I have put in my Pre-pub order for the videos.
I don't think it is possible to take in everything Mo covers in a live session, and retention of what you do take in has its limits. With the videos, you can review at will, rewind, take more notes, and watch some points repeatedly. For me, all this makes it well worth the price. Of course, Mark Barnes had made some excellent videos, and they cost less than $200. (Mo does speak Southern US while Mark speaks some strange form of English [8-|])
If I am remembering correctly, if you attended a Camp Logos for version three, then you received an "alumni discount" if you purchased the corresponding dvds. What that discount amounted to, I cannot remember.
I purchased Camp Logos 2 dvd series for version 3 and received with it a Syllabus-87 pages, to follow along and take notes as I viewed the dvd's. I don't know if attendees of a live Camp Logos for L4 received a syllabus or not, but I would want one included if they did.
How does Morris Proctor's training compare to John Fallahee? If you have one does it cancel out the need for the other?
200.00 dollars!!! In todays climate this is crazy. I believe the dvds should be selling for half that amount!
Now for the rest of the story, I bought the dvds for Libronix 3, and thought the prices were outrageous, and then I turned around and bought the dvds for camp 2 also. The truth is nothing did me as much good as those two groups of dvds. They totally changed my ability to study and do research.
I can not afford these dvds any more, but I am telling you this, his materials have been worth every penny I spent on them! I think they are way over priced, but the value is way beyond the cost!
I firmly believe they cost to much and would love to see them more affordable for the less well off believers, but I have to be truthful, in out right value, his seminars are worth 2-3 times the asking price! Nothing even comes close in value! Wait a minute the Logos unofficial video set does!
In Christ,
Jim VanSchoonhoven
200.00 dollars!!! In todays climate this is crazy. I believe the dvds should be selling for half that amount! Now for the rest of the story, I bought the dvds for Libronix 3, and thought the prices were outrageous, and then I turned around and bought the dvds for camp 2 also. The truth is nothing did me as much good as those two groups of dvds. They totally changed my ability to study and do research. I can not afford these dvds any more, but I am telling you this, his materials have been worth every penny I spent on them! I think they are way over priced, but the value is way beyond the cost! I firmly believe they cost to much and would love to see them more affordable for the less well off believers, but I have to be truthful, in out right value, his seminars are worth 2-3 times the asking price! Nothing even comes close in value! Wait a minute the Logos unofficial video set does! In Christ, Jim VanSchoonhoven
I am going to buy it without a doubt. But, just because you can charge $200 doesn't mean you should charge $200. It is unfortuante for the people who can not afford it, but could certainly make good use of the training if it were priced more affordable.
I've been to several MP seminars from the time he first started doing them. Most of the time I had to travel (air-hotel-car) because I was not available to attend seminars held near my home. So it easily cost me $600+ in the past. So $200 is a bargain to me for the same training, especially now with the videos I'll have unlimited access to their content.
For those who can't afford it, we still have an abundance of excellent free training videos available from Logos and Logos users (that I will continue to use)
Mark me down as saying YES...it is well worth the price.
No, one will not cancel the other. The two take a very different approach. Others obviously have a different view of Fallahee, but I gave it all away. I found his training to be very simplistic. I have always found Mo's training to be well worth the price.
I called Morris's office and the content on the DVD is recorded from a live seminar.
I have it on pre-pub, but I agree, it is quite pricey for what it is. Will I really be learning anything more than I would be if I just watched those unofficial videos online?
Since we are purchasing them from Logos, I am wondering if there is a 30 day return policy. And if there is, then one would have the opportunity to return them if not satisfied with the purchase. ?????
EDIT: I have both Camp Logos dvd's for Libronix and they are excellent; I am not of the mindset to return these for version 4, since I am sure of their quality, but others might like to know.
I've been wondering about getting these as well, since traveling to a seminar would be difficult. Here are some questions; hopefully not too many for one post.
Those who have attended the seminars, do you also receive the manual while there?
I've seen the manual offered as an item to purchase on Logos. I'm assuming it is the same manual you would receive if you attended the seminar. Is that correct? Is the manual something you could work through by itself without attending the seminar? Or do you really need the seminar to make sense of it?
I don't see any mention of it, but does anyone know if there will be a copy of the manual on the DVD so that you could print it out and use it while going through the DVDs just like you were at the seminar?
Manuals are provided at the seminar. I've also purchased them online in the past. It would be nice if an electronic version of the manual was included with the DVD...
Yes and No! There is a Camp Logos Syllabus that you work through for the 2 days you are there. It is NOT offered for sale, but Camp Logos sells Vol. 1 and Vol. 2 and that is what you see advertised. What is available for purchase just goes deeper than the syllabus. The 2-day course is great but you really, really move along. I, too, believe that the 7 hours of video is exactly what is being taught at the camp. As you have read previously, there are announcements, Mo pushes some different products and book bundles, etc. I have been to both camp 1 and camp 2 and am considering purchasing the DVD's simply because you cannot remember everything.
Do the manuals cover the same material as the seminars but then add more, is that what you mean by going deeper, Paul?
If that is true, why not just use the manuals? It would be nice to have the video explanation but with the manual I could refer back to specific features easier than finding the right video and listening until it gets to the particular part I am trying to remember. Am I misunderstanding?
I've seen the manual offered as an item to purchase on Logos. I'm assuming it is the same manual you would receive if you attended the seminar. Is that correct? Is the manual something you could work through by itself without attending the seminar?
No, it's not the same. You get a free book (well, it's included in your registration cost) at the seminar which is a 101-page spiral-bound book that includes the material covered in the seminar, in bullet-point form, with screenshots.
This is not the same as the 2-volume manual (vol 1: 142pp, vol 2: 131pp) which is offered for sale both at the seminar and on the Logos website. The manual also has an index in the back (which the syllabus doesn't have) so you can look up specific things. You could work your way through the manual without having attended the seminar.
The syllabus is organized in the order of sessions at the seminar. The manual is organized into chapters based on major feature areas in the software.
I have John Fallahees first two sets for Logos 4 and they are very good, I also have the two manuals on Logos 4 from Morris, and they are very good. I also use all the free videos and find them okay, except for the unoffical Logos videos I think they are very good.
I also bought everything I could find when I was learning Libronix 3. Here is what is see. All of the paid for material is very good and worth the money you spend on it. It is also all different and you can see how different people can use the software differently. This helps me to think out of the box.
Now when it comes to the Logos Camp Videos although they are over priced, their value is much higher than the asking price not just because of the material being presented, but because it is being presented by a world class teacher!!!
There is no way I can afford these at the present time, but I would get them if I could, because I know Morris reaches people better than any teacher I have seen in how to use this system. Morris calmly starts off telling you what he is going to teach you, he than teaches you what he wants to teach you and then ends up reviewing what he taught you. He does this all in a simple style that this backwoods country hick can understand. I love him as a teacher, he knows how to make things simple no matter how complex they are.
The videos are nice because you can replay them as often as you need to and it is the same material from his camps, only at a much lower cost by the time you add up all your travel time, food, sleeping arrangement and the cost of the seminar. Plus if you are like me being able to go back and review the material is priceless!
It was his Libronix camps that encouraged me to go after my ThD, I am glad I am doing that.
For some folks learning new things is easy, and they can learn how to use Logos 4 without the Camp videos, but for the rest of us Camp Logos 4 is the best and easiest way to learn. Don't forget his books they supplement the class.
Hi Jim,
I am right with you, my friend. I attended one of Morris Proctor's seminars for the Libronix version, and it was a powerful tool in opening the software, and aiding my study of the Bible. I have tried to find a Logos 4 seminar that was nearby, but each time that occurs, I cannot get away from work. I was hoping that these DVD's would be less expensive, as I don't have an extra $200 to spend. I have some friends on LOGOS 4 from church. Maybe I can talk a few of them into splitting the cost and sharing the DVD's.
Blessings to you, and I pray that God provides a way for you to get these!
Garry
Well, just to tell you their worth:
I attended Camp1Live seminar for Libronix and bought DVDs for both Camp1 and Camp2 for Libronix.
I also attended Camp2 For Logos4 and bought (prepub) DVDs for Camp2. they are worth their weight in gold even with today's crazy gold prices [;)]
I don't mind paying a fair price for Logos books, but over $200 for 9 hours of instruction seems extraordinarily steep, especially when the Camp is roughly the same cost.
A Camp is one thing, but honestly, a manual ordinarily comes WITH THE SOFTWARE. There have been many questions I've had about Logos 4, and while the Forum or the wiki usually get me a good answer, it is hit-and-miss. The issue is, how can one get a useful answer, unless one knows how to frame the question properly? I'm certain that I'm missing much of what is possible within Logos.
"WIndows 7 for Dummies" retails for $27.99, a 400 page book and it comes with a 2-hour DVD. Surely Logos 4 cannot be more complex than Windows 7.
I would even pay good money for a manual, or for a "Logos 4 for Dummies," so long as it was clearly ordered.
Re: Camp Logos on DVD 2:
A Camp is one thing (with the costs of food, lodging, speaker, meeting room), but honestly, a manual ordinarily comes WITH THE SOFTWARE. There have been many questions I've had about Logos 4, and while the Forum or the wiki usually get me a good answer, it is hit-and-miss. The issue is, how can one get a useful answer, unless one knows how to frame the question properly?
It is very much worth the price! I have bee to many conferances and Moris really is one of the best teachers I have sat under. The Camp Logos DVDs are more than worth every pennny. The teaching is some of the best in caliber of material let alone insubstance. You can't go wrong ordering these DVD's.
Hi Mark, I don't doubt the quality, and the comments about Morris' ability are universally positive. I still don't get why the DVD's are priced so high.
Hi Gary, this subject has come up in the past and Morris Proctor took the time to post in these forums to answer the price question himself. Unfortunately I have never attended a seminar or seen any of his videos but they sound fantastic. The link to Morris' input is here: http://community.logos.com/forums/p/31752/236478.aspx#236478
Hope this helps you understand the costs in production and then a profit margin.
Thanks Rick. I had already assumed that the DVDs must have had high production costs, still it was a good answer.
Gary
I believe that Morris also said that he did not want to undercut the live seminars, an understandable marketing decision. I think I remember reading that several months ago—or maybe I just dreamed reading it. [8-|]
Well there is the thought that if the DVDs were lower in cost he might sell exponentially more of them. Also there are so many ways people learn. Many people may go to a seminar because they do better with live interaction and it helps them focus on the topic since they are away from distractions at home. Also if the DVDs were lower those who go to the live Camp Logos might be inclined to buy the DVDs as a refresher that will trigger an "Oh I remember Morris talking about this and this is how we did it".
Unfortunately there aren't any Camp Logos close enough to me to make the cost reasonable (i.e. the cost of the seminar, travel, lodging, food, etc). And right now the DVDs are out of range as well. So there is no revenue at all. I don't know how many others out there are in a similar boat.
Some revenue is better than none, plus the cost of DVDs are so cheap. I know I do CD and DVD duplication and have production boxes that thermal print full color labels and such. A CD - cost only - is $.72 and a DVD - cost only - is just under $1.25. With that said I believe Morris and Logos deserve to make a fair and reasonable profit too.
Just a thought folks, not condeming their price point as it is a business.
I bought the DVDs used from a person off of Craigslist, so I got it at a bit of a discount. I really wasn't sure if I'd find it that valuable because most of what you learn should be easily found in some instruction manual. However, I have found the DVDs very worthwhile. Using the DVDs, I am able to go through each of the sections at my own pace rather than trying to drink at the firehose. Although the cost is steep when compared to attending the seminar in person, it allowed me to save in travel expenses, time off work, time away from family, and etc.
